New era rivals!!

[Mr.Grandorifto]

Here we go this going to be my first poll. As a new era has come upon us for these two auto makers, Subaru and Mitsubishi. This is just a poll to see what car you like in design and performance. I would like to hear your comments on the subject. So, do you like the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X or the 2008 Subaru Imprezza WRX?

P.S. If this poll doesn't work, I hope someone could help me out with it.

 

[JCE]

The New EVO X is a pure masterpiece. I love my WRX's, but only in pre 2006 trim. The new 2008 hatch hybrid WRX thing looks like ass.

 

[Mr.Grandorifto]

I forgot to add my thoughts. Personally I'm a big Lan Evo dude! It will probably take me a while to get used to the new style, but I like the interior. As for the Subaru, for you Suby guys, I don't know what to say, the only Subaru I liked was the 2007 WRX STi. The new Subaru makes me want to gouge my eyes out with a toothpick. The interior is way too plain. It reminds me of a Smart Car in a taffy pull. And there is no wing!!!! And the front hood scoop is the gold standard of Subaru. Anyways, those are my thoughts, and my regards to you Subaru lovers.

Long Live Lancer!

 

[Azuremen]

I'm actually looking forward to the new WRX STi Hatch.. thing.

Saw some ideas on what it will look like, and if you take away the chrome grill, I like it quite abit more.

But then, people say I am crazy. Though I never have much liked the Evo, in part do to all the electric things, and in part due to the max torque that can be sent to the rear wheels...

 

[Diablomonkey]

EVO all the way!

Reason #1. The Evo is only 2.0L and its making the same power as the WRX and the WRX is a 2.5L (I don't get why Subaru went with a 2.5L when in the WRC they only let you run a 2.0L) .

Reason #2. You can see where Mitsubishi took the styling from the rally car.

Reason #3. I like a I-4 set up better than a flat 4 set up.

 

[YSSMAN]

(I love how many people vote, but don't explain why...)

Anyway, I'm all about the Evolution. At least to me, it represents itself better as a sports car simply because it has followed those ideas better overall; Spartan interior and exterior, high-stakes handling that doesn't give-up, a good balance of a reliable chassis/suspension and moderately powered engine, etc.

But, as I always do, I ruin the fun by bringing up the R32. So here I go again. I'd rather have the R32. Why? Its a high-performance car for the "grown-up" 20 or 30 something. It isn't quite as razor-edge fast as the Scooby and Evo, but it will hold its own, as well as keep you comfortable year-round, and haul the kids and the dog as well. Did I mention that can be done comfortably?

...Adding the 300 BHP 3.6L VR6 this year should change the game up just a bit, but the current 250 BHP model does just fine...

 

[Wolfe]

I vote for "neither." I mean, I really like the first- and second-gen Imprezas (aka all of them up to the new 2008 model) and Lancer Evolutions (aka Evos 1 through 6), but the cover of the June '07 issue of Road and Track really makes you wonder where things went wrong.

I know styling isn't everything, but c'mon -- an Audi Romeo (not quite in a good way) and a modern Corolla in a tracksuit?

No doubt both will be excellent performers, with the Subaru understeering a bit too much and the Evo being left behind on anything that isn't dry pavement, but I don't think I could stand to own a car that looks like the new Impreza, and if I chose the Evo I'd regret it 'cause I prefer Subarus. (Not that it really matters with my income...)

Anyway, if I had to pick a brand-new AWD pocket rocket, I'd probably go with the new Audi TT Coupé with the 4-cylinder TFSI (for better weight distribution). If it's as good as everyone says, it'd probably match or beat the two contenders here around a track anyway.

 

[JCE]

Well that's not fair because I'd take the new TT in any trim, any color, and any way possible over these two. There IS NO CONTEST! Hell, the old R32, the newer R32, and the new new R36 would be more fun to own and drive. Because when you settle down and drive around in town the R32 is so much more refined as a cruiser.

 

[Mr.Grandorifto]

You may be getting a little off topic here. I was asking about the Lancer Evo and the Subaru WRX. The poll doesn't include Nissans or Audis or any other 4WD automobile (that includes trucks! ). They just aren't in the same class as these two competitors. However, my favourite car overall is the Evo 9 MR GSR. I bet you if you were to put it up against that Audi TT Coupe, it would definitely hold it's own. If you guys want to get out of hand, I could fire off some stuff. Ok, I bet you hands down that the Lancer Evo 9 MR GSR will beat any other 4WD car in the same Horsepower range (plus or minus 10 to 20HP) on Nürburgring-Nordschleife, which I believe is the ultimate test track. If you have definitive proof either way, PM me.

 

[YSSMAN]

He (and I) were meerly pointing out that there are other alternatives to the Evolution/STi crowd. You don't need to get your panties in a bunch...

...I love the Evolution just as much as the next guy, but to be honest, I'm a bit more mature than that car, and thereby cars like the AWD (helps to differentiate between it and 4WD, like a pickup truck or SUV) R32 and TT are certainly matches nonetheless (well, TT not so much)...

If GM is as crazy as I think they are (yes, probably) we may see an AWD version of the Commodore/G8 in the near future. And if that is the case, you can count me in for a 360-400 BHP full-size sedan that will happily wipe the smirk off the punk kid in the STi or Evo.

...Mind you, this is coming from a 20 year old...

 

[JCE]

If the price of a new TT is within $3k of the EVO/STi then I'd say it is quite a match for those two. But I digress, you apparently don't want any talk about anything but those two cars.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Much less the Ford Mustang Shelby GT, Mazda RX-8, Nissan 350Z, Pontiac G8, etc...

 

[Azuremen]

These two are classic rivals... and I think you are both over looking that.

Its because of their rally heritage and such... not just their numbers.

 

[YSSMAN]

These two are classic rivals... and I think you are both over looking that.

Its because of their rally heritage and such... not just their numbers.

We aren't overlooking it, we've both clearly stated that it is no-longer limited to just these two models in this field anymore. As a matter of fact, I believe we both said we would chose the Evolution anyway...

...To be honest, the debate between the two models really hasn't been that interesting as of late. One gets 300 BHP, the other matches, one adds leather, the other matches, one strips down, the other matches. Okay, really interesting...

Sure, I'd be happy to point out that between JCE and I, the deal is much the same with the Camaro and Mustang as it is with the Evolution and STi, but meh, I've always found that rivalry to be one of the most interesting worldwide.

In summation:

- Evolution better than STi
- If given a choice, I'd go for the R32
- Its not numbers alone, its the effect the cars have had on the market, jump-starting a segment that has largely been dead since the '90s...

 

[Diablomonkey]

- If given a choice, I'd go for the R32

I think that given the chance ANYONE would go for the R32, but seeing as its hella hard to get one in the US.

I-6 Twin Turbo > I-4 Single Turbo

 

[JCE]

These two are classic rivals... and I think you are both over looking that.

Its because of their rally heritage and such... not just their numbers.

I'm not overlooking anything really. I've clearly stated both my opinion that there is more competition, as well as answered his poll with a legitimate vote. I think this rival is half as old as the Camaro v Mustang rival. But like the EVO/STi rival that doesn't mean I can't drag the GTO in the Camaro v Mustang arguement, because it competed with a couple of generations of these two cars. I think it is a legitimate arguement that the STi and EVO aren't the end all to be all anymore. They are both still great track and rally cars. But on pavement they aren't the studs like alot of other cars in their price range are. The price range for the new Audi TT starts at $34,800 for the 2.0T. The EVO 9 starts with the RS model for $29,774--but the one you want is the MR obviously and it's price starts at $36,924. The Subaru WRX STi starts at $33,495.

I'd say the new TT competes with the other two quite well in terms of actual price. Where the TT wins hands down is on ride on tarmac, interior trim, build quality, more luxury, and I think it looks much better better.

Where the TT loses is power for the money, you need to spend $41,500 to get the V6--which is in my opinion a much better engine to live with than the STi/EVO. But when you consider the MR EVO is almost $37k, four thousand more dollars is not much to pay to get the top spec TT. I'm just saying, there is legitimate competion.

We aren't overlooking it, we've both clearly stated that it is no-longer limited to just these two models in this field anymore. As a matter of fact, I believe we both said we would chose the Evolution anyway...

...To be honest, the debate between the two models really hasn't been that interesting as of late. One gets 300 BHP, the other matches, one adds leather, the other matches, one strips down, the other matches. Okay, really interesting...

Sure, I'd be happy to point out that between JCE and I, the deal is much the same with the Camaro and Mustang as it is with the Evolution and STi, but meh, I've always found that rivalry to be one of the most interesting worldwide.

In summation:

- Evolution better than STi
- If given a choice, I'd go for the R32
- Its not numbers alone, its the effect the cars have had on the market, jump-starting a segment that has largely been dead since the '90s...

+1 on just about everything in there. The current STi loses to the current EVO IX. The gap will be much larger when the new EVO X and STi come out.

I think that given the chance ANYONE would go for the R32, but seeing as its hella hard to get one in the US.

I-6 Twin Turbo > I-4 Single Turbo

Not really. After 20 seconds of autotrader goodness I found 2 R32's selling within 50 miles of me.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/searc...ault_sort=priceDESC&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=

And you do realize that the R32 is just a naturally aspirated 3.2L V6 right?

 

[Azuremen]

I've seen a couple of R32s on the highways here. Quite quick indeed, but hardly something I would want. I utterly distrust VWs to the end... between Consumer reports on them and just general experiences with things breaking on them... to well, a dash lighting itself on fire. You'd catch me in a GM product before a VW. Same deal with Audi.

I wasn't trying to say they are the end all of the performance world or anything, just like JCE displayed with the Camaro Mustang thing, they are historic rivals.

If you want my random 3rd party pick in this price range...
Lexus IS350 - starts at around $35k
Or if I wanted a die hard sports car...
Toyota MR2 Spyder, with a 2ZZ-GE swap and a turbo... maybe $20k in all... 0-60 in sub 5 seconds, faster on corners, etc.

Between these two, its the STi. People gripe about the understeer, but in my experiance, I've never noticed and the Subarus I have handled have felt very happy to turn into a corner...

EDIT: And yeah, I thought the R32 was an NA 3.2L VR6...

EDIT2 - Doh, Diablo... he is talking about the VW R32... not a Skyline R32 GT-R

 

[Wolfe]

I think that given the chance ANYONE would go for the R32, but seeing as its hella hard to get one in the US.

I-6 Twin Turbo > I-4 Single Turbo

YSSMAN isn't talking about a Nissan.

 

[G.T]

Just look at them...

The STI looks like it's been turned into a Ford Focus, but with more aggressive styling and spoilers on it. The normal hatch is even worse. That's the one we're going to get as the WRX isn't coming to the UK, apparently.

The Evo X looks the real deal.

 

[Mr.Grandorifto]

Well, jeez, guys your comments are apreciated, but be a little specific. R32 to me has always meant the Skyline GT-R (R32) for the 90's. The VW R32 is a GOLF. It's not how you say a nice car. It's just a fat rabbit with broken legs. It's not going anywhere. Anyways, here's some of the fastest lap times from Nürburgring-Nordschleife, see if you can find your favourite car:

(from wikipedia)
6:55 - Radical SR8, 360 PS/650 kg, Michael Vergers (28 Sep 2005)
7:12 - Radical SR3 Turbo, 320 PS/500 kg (test drive 07/03)
7:14 - Donkervoort D8 RS, 398 PS/760 kg, Michael Düchting (sport auto 11/05)
7:15 - Edo Porsche 996 GT2 RS, 542 PS/1284 kg, deatrick Simon (sport auto 09/05)
7:18 - Donkervoort D8 RS, 370 PS/670 kg, Michael Düchting (sport auto 12/04)
7:28 - Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/1475 kg, Walter Röhrl, (Autobild 07/04)
7.32 - Porsche Carrera GT (Sport Auto Trophy, driven by Horst von Saurma)
7.32 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 PS/1432 kg (Gemballa)
7:33 - Pagani Zonda F, 602 PS/1230 kg (sport auto 05/06)
7:34 - Koenigsegg CCR, 806 PS/1418 kg, Horst von Saurma (sport auto), Oct 17-18 2005
7:40 - Bugatti Veyron 16.4, 1001 PS/1980 kg (Wheels magazine Australia, 12/05)
7:40 - Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren, Klaus Ludwig (AutoBild 07/04)
7:41 - Manthey Porsche GT3 M410, 413 PS/1320 kg (160.868 km/h) (Autobild 07/04)
7:42 - Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1440 kg, Walter Röhrl (Automobil 05/06)
7:42 - Ford GT, 550 PS/1521 kg (as indicated by Octane magazine, 11/05)
7:43 - Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06, 512 PS/1419 kg, Jan Magnussen, 2005/06/23 (news release, pictures)
7:43 - Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine 02)
7:44 - Pagani Zonda S 550 PS/1280 kg (sport auto 02/05)
7:46 - Porsche 996 GT2, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/01)
7:47 - Porsche 996 GT3 RS (sport tyres)[citation needed]
7:47 - Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 E-gear (sport tyres) (sport auto 01/07)
7:48 - Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1440 kg (sport auto 07/06)
7:50 - Westfield Megabusa, 180 PS/440 kg[citation needed]
7:50 - Lamborghini Murcielago, (sport auto 06/02)
7:50 - BMW M3 E46 CSL, 360 PS/1421 kg (sport auto 08/03)
7:50 - BMW X5 E53 LM, McLaren F1-engine 750 bhp, Hans-Joachim Stuck (EVO magazine 08/2005)
7:52 - Porsche 996 GT3 (381 hp)[citation needed]
7:52 - Lamborghini Gallardo[citation needed]
7:53 - Chevrolet Corvette C5 z06
7:54 - Nissan Skyline GT-R R34[citation needed]
7:55 - Caterham R500 Superlight, 233 PS/460 kg, Robert Nearn (EVO magazine 07/2000)
7:55 - Ferrari F430 F1, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 01/06)
7:56 - Honda NSX-R (NA2), 280 PS/31kgm/1270 kg, Incomplete lap by 30 metres, Motoharu Kurosawa (Best MOTORing 08/02)
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo (sport auto 06/00)
7:56 - Ferrari 360 stradale (sport tyres) (sport auto 02/04)
7:57 - Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo (600 hp, racing suspension)[citation needed]
7:59 - Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Performance”, Walter Röhrl, (WHEELS 06/04)
7:59 - Nissan Skyline GT-R R33, Dirk Schoymans, unknown modifications (Autocar magazine 1997)
7:59 - Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51,405 PS/1481 kg, driver Dave Hill (manufacturer claim)
7:59 - Subaru Impreza Sti Spec-C (Prototype), 280 PS/1370 kg (Subaru News 2004 [1])
8:01 - Bugatti EB 110 Supersport, 610 PS/1410 kg[citation needed]
8:01 - Nissan Skyline GT-R R33, 280 PS/37.5 kgf·m/1540 kg, Motoharu Kurosawa (Best Motoring - Video Special DVD Series [The R33 GT-R])
8:03 - Aston Martin V8 Vantage (2005), 380 bhp/1570 kg (sport auto 10/05)
8:03 - Porsche 911 GT3, 360 PS/1391 kg (sport auto 08/99)
8:03 - Honda NSX-R (NA1), 280 PS/30 kgf·m/1230 kg, Motoharu Kurosawa (Best MOTORing 02/06)
8:06 - Subaru WRX STi Spec-C prototype, 280 PS/42 kgf·m/1370 kg, Motoharu Kurosawa (Best Motoring International video "NISMO Beast Unleashed")
8:07 - Ferrari 550[citation needed]
8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV[citation needed]
8:09 - Ferrari 360 Modena[citation needed]
8:09 - BMW M6 E63 (sport tyres) [limited to 259 km/h] (sport auto 12/05)
8:09 - Honda NSX-R, 320 PS/1467 kg, sport tires, suspension modification (sport auto 08/02)
8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS (Sport Auto 10/97)
8:11 - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR prototype, 280 PS/40.8 kgf·m/1420 kg, Takayuki Kino****a (Best Motoring International video "Carrera Invasion")
8:12 - Porsche 993 Turbo (430 hp version)[citation needed]
8:13 - BMW M5 E60, 507 PS (sport auto 12/04)
8:13 - Ferrari 355 GTB (Sport Auto 10/1994)
8:15 - BMW Z8 E52, 400 hp[citation needed]
8:17 - Porsche 996 C2[citation needed]
8:22 - Nissan Skyline GT-R R32, 280 PS/36 kgf·m/1430 kg, Motoharu Kurosawa (Best Motoring - Video Special DVD Series [The R32 GT-R])
8:22 - BMW M3 E46, 343 PS/1584 kg (sport auto 12/00)
8:22 - BMW M Coupe E36/7, 321 PS/1445 kg (sport auto 10/98)
8:24 - Subaru Impreza WRX STI, sport tires (Sport Auto 05/04)
8:25 - Jaguar XKR (Sport Auto)
8:25 - Porsche Cayman S (Sport Auto)
8:25 - Audi RS4 375 hp[citation needed]
8:24 - Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VI, sport tires (Sport Auto 11/99)
8:25 - Mitsubishi Charisma GT Evo VII, sport tires (Sport Auto 11/02)
8:26 - BMW 335i E92 Coupe, 300 hp (Sport Auto)
8:26 - Nissan 350Z (Sport Auto 10/03)
8:28 - Porsche 911 Carrera (993) (Sport Auto 07/97)
8:28 - BMW M5 E39 (previous model), 400 hp[citation needed]
8:32 - Porsche Boxster S (Sport Auto 12/99)
8:35 - BMW M3 E36 Coupe, 321 hp[citation needed]
8:36 - Opel Astra OPC, 240 PS/1355 kg, Manuel Reuter (mfr., Oct 2005), sport compact record holder
8:37 - Mercedes C32 AMG[citation needed]
8:38 - Honda NSX (sport auto, 08/97)
8:39 - Honda S2000 (sport auto 01/00)
8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette C5 automatic, 344 PS/1505 kg (sport auto 07/97)
8:42 - Audi S4 265 hp[citation needed]
8:42 - Lotus Exige, sport tires (Sport Auto 11/00)
8:47 - Honda Civic Type-R (Sport Auto 11/01)
8:49 - Jaguar XKR Coupe[citation needed]
8:52 - Mercedes CLK 430[citation needed]
9:59 - Jaguar S-Type Diesel driven by Jeremy Clarkson for an episode of Top Gear (Series 5, Episode 5)
10:08 - Ford Transit driven by Sabine Schmitz for an episode of Top Gear (Series 6, episode 7; Bridge to Gantry within tourist traffic)

 

[Jim Prower]

given choice strictly between the two, I'll go for the Evo. Looks like a 9/10ths scale GT-R to me.

with the full scale of rally-bred cars, though, I'll take...oh, a 205 T16. or an RS200. Or a 6R4. or a Delta.

 

[barryl85]

I really like the EVO - i've always been a fan of both until they wasted the subaru with the frog eye'd model, a 22b has always been my dream subaru and a Black Evo 5 with the huge fog lamps at front!

But for this poll i have to say EVO that Impreza is just wrong it makes me sad.

As for the whole Golf R32 thing - i liked the MK4 R32 looked mean and had a nice stance - but i think the MK5 R32 is fugly.

Oh and as for having a 2ltr Turbo 4WD car i'd take a Nissan Pulsar GTi-R anyday - What can i say i'm a hatch man thru and thru!!

 

[YSSMAN]

The VW R32 is a GOLF. It's not how you say a nice car. It's just a fat rabbit with broken legs. It's not going anywhere.

Right, because that fat pig of a Impreza 2.5RS and the modest-performing Lancer GTS are simply outstanding, aren't they? I'll take that 'slow' Vee-Dub any-day over the other two, simply because I know it will be built better, drive better, and be able to hold up in the twisties just as easily as the other two. Quite frankly, the Subaru doesn't even pose a threat to the VW, and the Mitsu's only advantage comes in the handling department. Otherwise, the VW comes in at a lower price, with more standard equipment, and will even come with more horsepower than both here in 2008 (170 BHP when the SportWagen version of the 2.5L proliferates).

 

[xXSilencerXx]

I have always prefered the Suby till now. The new one looks like ass. I much rather be seen in the Evo.

 

[Tornado]

The VW R32 is a GOLF. It's not how you say a nice car. It's just a fat rabbit with broken legs. It's not going anywhere.

As YSSMAN covered, the Lancer is a terrible, terrible car in base form that probably dates back to the early 90's (or at the very least, I wouldn't be surprised if it did), outclassed by pretty much every single car it competes with.
The Subaru is either 25 BHP or 300 lbs off to be anything other than anemic (though admittedly still fun) in base form.
The R32 is a car one can actually live with, it isn't that far off performance wise and it sure as hell holds its resale better and is far more exclusive than either the Lancer or the Wrex. And the base Golf? Better than the Lancer and STi 2.5, at the very least.

 

[JCE]

Just look at them...

The STI looks like it's been turned into a Ford Focus, but with more aggressive styling and spoilers on it. The normal hatch is even worse. That's the one we're going to get as the WRX isn't coming to the UK, apparently.

The Evo X looks the real deal.

+1 100% agree with you here. They went from a super fugly front fascia to a semi-ugly one. I'd still rather be seen in ANY EVO of ANY year...even the VIII which I like the least of every EVO model.

Well, jeez, guys your comments are apreciated, but be a little specific. R32 to me has always meant the Skyline GT-R (R32) for the 90's. The VW R32 is a GOLF. It's not how you say a nice car. It's just a fat rabbit with broken legs. It's not going anywhere. Anyways, here's some of the fastest lap times from Nürburgring-Nordschleife, see if you can find your favourite car:

(from wikipedia)
7.32 - Porsche Carrera GT (Sport Auto Trophy, driven by Horst von Saurma)
7:33 - Pagani Zonda F, 602 PS/1230 kg (sport auto 05/06)
7:40 - Bugatti Veyron 16.4, 1001 PS/1980 kg (Wheels magazine Australia, 12/05)
7:42 - Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1440 kg, Walter Röhrl (Automobil 05/06)
7:42 - Ford GT, 550 PS/1521 kg (as indicated by Octane magazine, 11/05)
7:43 - Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06, 512 PS/1419 kg, Jan Magnussen, 2005/06/23 (news release, pictures)
7:44 - Pagani Zonda S 550 PS/1280 kg (sport auto 02/05)
7:50 - BMW M3 E46 CSL, 360 PS/1421 kg (sport auto 08/03)
7:55 - Ferrari F430 F1, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 01/06)
7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo (sport auto 06/00)
7:59 - Subaru Impreza Sti Spec-C (Prototype), 280 PS/1370 kg (Subaru News 2004 [1])
8:01 - Nissan Skyline GT-R R33, 280 PS/37.5 kgf·m/1540 kg, Motoharu Kurosawa (Best Motoring - Video Special DVD Series [The R33 GT-R])
8:09 - BMW M6 E63 (sport tyres) [limited to 259 km/h] (sport auto 12/05)
8:13 - BMW M5 E60, 507 PS (sport auto 12/04)
8:25 - Jaguar XKR (Sport Auto)
8:25 - Audi RS4 375 hp[citation needed]
8:26 - Nissan 350Z (Sport Auto 10/03)
8:28 - BMW M5 E39 (previous model), 400 hp[citation needed]
8:35 - BMW M3 E36 Coupe, 321 hp[citation needed]
8:42 - Lotus Exige, sport tires (Sport Auto 11/00)
8:52 - Mercedes CLK 430[citation needed]

Those are my favorites in that list. And the Golf is not an f'ed up rabbit that can't move. You obviously have never seen a good tuned one. They aren't slow by any means. They are faster than the 2.5RS Impreza and GTS Lancer in stock form, and give the regular WRX a run for it's money.

given choice strictly between the two, I'll go for the Evo. Looks like a 9/10ths scale GT-R to me.

with the full scale of rally-bred cars, though, I'll take...oh, a 205 T16. or an RS200. Or a 6R4. or a Delta.

Give me an RS200 in a fraction of a millisecond. Those were some brilliant cars. Too bad the stupid USA did get them. I guess back in that day the Americans couldn't handle a fast Ford around the corners.

As for the whole Golf R32 thing - i liked the MK4 R32 looked mean and had a nice stance - but i think the MK5 R32 is fugly.

Oh and as for having a 2ltr Turbo 4WD car i'd take a Nissan Pulsar GTi-R anyday - What can i say i'm a hatch man thru and thru!!

+1 on the Pulsar GTi-R. The American 1991-1998 200SX SE-R had the SR20DE engine...we just needed the turbo for christ sakes and things would be MUCH different here. An SR20DET'd 200SX would easily beat the Mustang and Camaro V8's of those years...and even given the C4 autmatic Corvette a run for it's money...I know I had a C4 auto-tragic. Well maybe not the C4. lol

And the MkV R32 doesn't look bad, it just doesn't look anywhere near as good as the MkIV "R32.

Right, because that fat pig of a Impreza 2.5RS and the modest-performing Lancer GTS are simply outstanding, aren't they? I'll take that 'slow' Vee-Dub any-day over the other two, simply because I know it will be built better, drive better, and be able to hold up in the twisties just as easily as the other two. Quite frankly, the Subaru doesn't even pose a threat to the VW, and the Mitsu's only advantage comes in the handling department. Otherwise, the VW comes in at a lower price, with more standard equipment, and will even come with more horsepower than both here in 2008 (170 BHP when the SportWagen version of the 2.5L proliferates).

+1 The 2.5RS Impreza and GTS Lancer were good for only one thing--conversion to their older brothers. Period. And the VeeDub is such a better road car than the STi/EVO. And what's awsome is you can turn a Golf INTO a better track car than the other two.

I have always prefered the Suby till now. The new one looks like ass. I much rather be seen in the Evo.

+1 Agreed.

As YSSMAN covered, the Lancer is a terrible, terrible car in base form that probably dates back to the early 90's (or at the very least, I wouldn't be surprised if it did), outclassed by pretty much every single car it competes with.
The Subaru is either 25 BHP or 300 lbs off to be anything other than anemic (though admittedly still fun) in base form.
The R32 is a car one can actually live with, it isn't that far off performance wise and it sure as hell holds its resale better and is far more exclusive than either the Lancer or the Wrex. And the base Golf? Better than the Lancer and STi 2.5, at the very least.

+1 +rep (if the forum would let me) Exactly. Don't forget any Golf in any trim is better inside than any Impreza or Lancer.

 

[Wolfe]

Okay. I'll admit that I've watched pretty much the entire Initial D anime series, but I knew immediately that YSSMAN was referring to the Volkswagen. Why? Well, aside from the fact that I know he's a VW guy, he said...

It isn't quite as razor-edge fast as the Scooby and Evo, but it will hold its own, as well as keep you comfortable year-round, and haul the kids and the dog as well. Did I mention that can be done comfortably?

...Adding the 300 BHP 3.6L VR6 this year should change the game up just a bit, but the current 250 BHP model does just fine...

Furthermore, I agree with all of the above comments in that the R32 is a excellent car. Its only real fault is that it's a bit on the heavy side -- something you tend to forgive with such an inviting interior.

 

[YSSMAN]

Heavy yes, but it does have pretty good performance overall. It managed to outrun the 130i M-Sport that should have beaten it in the Top Gear test, not to mention the fact that the R32 MKV is only three tenths of a second behind the STi.

...Still, its the best of both worlds. The 5000 MKV R32s were getting in the US this year will probably be bought up within a week or so, and God only knows what will happen when the R36 arrives...

 

[Diablomonkey]

YSSMAN isn't talking about a Nissan.

Well seeing as we where talking about turbo AWD cars and the fact that I love Nissans and could care less about VWs (meaning I know jack about them) I thought the YSSMAN was talking about a Skyline.

 

[YSSMAN]

You should learn that whenever I say "R32," I will always be referring to the Volkswagen. If I meant the Nissan R32, I'd usually follow it up with a GT-R...

(BTW: Didn't we have this problem before?)