New physics confusion ?

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sokira

sokira

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Sokika
Hello guys ! I am a serious fan of GT and I always wanted a physics that is almost "real"
With GT6 that physics get better overall..... BUT ! I seriously doubt PD to deliver to us an equal game !

I think the new physics, specialy the suspension model, only apply on cars added for GT6,and not on old cars from GT5 and GT4... For the new tire model, yeah ok let's say it works fine but overall old cars (from GT5/GT4) they drive it the same way... (execpt 370Z and R35 GTR at this moment)

I didn't play back GT5 to confirm my feeling, but cars such the Audi R8 or the F458 react, or not, like GT5. What a disappointment, they are not lively and tricky like the Lambo Diablo, M4 .... I mean every new cars added to GT6...

What do you think ?

(I think it was already the case in GT5 and the old cars from GT4 and their old physics that they carried)
 
Man has an interesting point; i'd like to know that also as i've been reading mixed things about the physics so far.
 
mister dog
Man has an interesting point; i'd like to know that also as i've been reading mixed things about the physics so far.
Click to expand...

It's when people toss on aftermarket wheels, that makes the cars get four front tires and skews the handling. Physics are amazing and smoke GT5 in grip/loss and feels very progressive. Now PD just needs to fix some glaring issues with wheels and then tighten up the physics some more and fix the broken aero that lets cars go ungodly speeds.
 
I disagree based on my experiences so far. Best example I can bring to mind is the F40, with which I have spent quite a bit of time in the last few days while testing the custom rims anomaly. In short, I set a time around DFR with a totally stock GT6 F40, then loaded up GT5 and did the same combo and gave up after 10 laps, 5 seconds slower than with the GT6 version.

GT6 F40 - lively, sharp turn in, slight over-steer tendencies, great traction.
GT5 F40 - massive turn-in and mid-corner understeer, poor traction.

I've tried the R8 V10 too with similar results.

My conclusion thus far is that the physics in GT6 are pretty damn good and certainly a massive step forwards from GT5.
 
It's almost boring to drive my R8 my 350Z opera, the old mustang compare to the new one it's like the day and the night... more fun, concentration need it, and whatever the tire used. Even is it is a new car with new technology etc, the gap is important.

The fun factor is not the same for me now, I rather drive the new cars added in GT6
I have to say some cars from GT5 are completly new in term of physic (trio 86/BRZ/FR-S)

Or maybe it is just a feeling .... I hope I am wrong
I drive every car stock by the way with the T500RS
 
Vagabond
I disagree based on my experiences so far. Best example I can bring to mind is the F40, with which I have spent quite a bit of time in the last few days while testing the custom rims anomaly. In short, I set a time around DFR with a totally stock GT6 F40, then loaded up GT5 and did the same combo and gave up after 10 laps, 5 seconds slower than with the GT6 version.

GT6 F40 - lively, sharp turn in, slight over steer tendencies, great traction.
GT5 F40 - massive turn-in and mid-corner understeer, poor traction.

I've tried the R8 V10 too with similar results.

My conclusion thus far is that the physics in GT6 are pretty damn good and certainly a massive step forwards from GT5.
Click to expand...

yeah maybe I'm getting used to the new physic, but I can't help sometime it is boring to drive certains cars from GT5
 
So handling comments I have read on the forum makes me laugh, GT6 is much much better (from what I have found) esp if you do a back to back with GT5.

You got to ask yourself, have you ever driven a high powered car in real life? Have you tried to keep a 650bhp Ford Mustang on the track?
 
Vagabond
I disagree based on my experiences so far. Best example I can bring to mind is the F40, with which I have spent quite a bit of time in the last few days while testing the custom rims anomaly. In short, I set a time around DFR with a totally stock GT6 F40, then loaded up GT5 and did the same combo and gave up after 10 laps, 5 seconds slower than with the GT6 version.

GT6 F40 - lively, sharp turn in, slight over-steer tendencies, great traction.
GT5 F40 - massive turn-in and mid-corner understeer, poor traction.

I've tried the R8 V10 too with similar results.

My conclusion thus far is that the physics in GT6 are pretty damn good and certainly a massive step forwards from GT5.
Click to expand...
Cheers, good that they fixed that as the F40 was a dog to drive in GT5 just like you mention 👍
 
velly
So handling comments I have read on the forum makes me laugh, GT6 is much much better (from what I have found) esp if you do a back to back with GT5.

You got to ask yourself, have you ever driven a high powered car in real life? Have you tried to keep a 650bhp Ford Mustang on the track?
Click to expand...

Of course GT6 is much much better I agree 100% with you, I just have a feeling that some cars are not "much much" better but only "much" better. So I am wondering if some cars didn't get all the attention from PD about the physics
 
I don't think you are right.

I suspect that the new tyre physics have a problem. For example, a Toyota 86 GT with comfort soft tyres was plenty of fun in GT5. It could be thrown hard into coners where most other cars would have to let off the throttle or brake. However, this isn't the case in GT6. I think it's a problem I had more fun driving a car in GT5 than I do in GT6. Why? Because the car is fun to drive in real life.
 
I find the physics more floaty. I've already flipped cars more times in GT6 than in GT5. I've flipped a car just from the kerb at the final corner at Bathurst for chrissakes!
 
sokira
yeah maybe I'm getting used to the new physic, but I can't help sometime it is boring to drive certains cars from GT5
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There would be no reason to use a completely different physics model on select cars.

The physics model together with the rendering engine got rewritten in 6. They have to be optimised together to get the maximum frame rate possible out of the PS3. PD stated that the new physics engine is more "compact", which I guess means that it takes less clock cycles to process, freeing up resources for the graphics engine etc. Throwing the older physics code in on select cars just wouldn't make sense.
 
sokira
Hello guys ! I am a serious fan of GT and I always wanted a physics that is almost "real"
With GT6 that physics get better overall..... BUT ! I seriously doubt PD to deliver to us an equal game !

I think the new physics, specialy the suspension model, only apply on cars added for GT6,and not on old cars from GT5 and GT4... For the new tire model, yeah ok let's say it works fine but overall old cars (from GT5/GT4) they drive it the same way... (execpt 370Z and R35 GTR at this moment)

I didn't play back GT5 to confirm my feeling, but cars such the Audi R8 or the F458 react, or not, like GT5. What a disappointment, they are not lively and tricky like the Lambo Diablo, M4 .... I mean every new cars added to GT6...

What do you think ?

(I think it was already the case in GT5 and the old cars from GT4 and their old physics that they carried)
Click to expand...

Wait what? GT6 physics use GT6 physics, I don't know what is your perception of a racing videogame, but the simulation takes the numbers from the car's database and simulate the results, every car goes through the same algorithms. GT4 cars do not drive like in GT4, nor GT5 cars like GT5. They do "cheat" some aspects like LMPs last longer on a 100 liters fuel tank than non LMPs even at higher revs, have better tire degradation and less susceptible to overheat under wheelspin, but the actual physics is the same for all cars.
 
sokira
Hello guys ! I am a serious fan of GT and I always wanted a physics that is almost "real"
With GT6 that physics get better overall..... BUT ! I seriously doubt PD to deliver to us an equal game !

I think the new physics, specialy the suspension model, only apply on cars added for GT6,and not on old cars from GT5 and GT4... For the new tire model, yeah ok let's say it works fine but overall old cars (from GT5/GT4) they drive it the same way... (execpt 370Z and R35 GTR at this moment)

I didn't play back GT5 to confirm my feeling, but cars such the Audi R8 or the F458 react, or not, like GT5. What a disappointment, they are not lively and tricky like the Lambo Diablo, M4 .... I mean every new cars added to GT6...

What do you think ?

(I think it was already the case in GT5 and the old cars from GT4 and their old physics that they carried)
Click to expand...

No. It's a new physics engine which means its being utilized by all cars.
 
While it's true that every car now uses the GT6 physics engine, it's certainly possible some of the cars from older games have less detailed information about suspension and such, and are therefore less accurate than other cars. They may have plugged in placeholder values for certain things, making those cars more "generic" and less unique.

But maybe they did a good job collecting data back then and only now get to use it. Or maybe they went back and collected more data for many of the cars. However, I doubt every standard is as high quality in the suspension modeling department as the full premiums, considering the errors some of the standards have in other areas.
 
I tried NSX and S2000 in GT6, and they definitely have different (new) physics. If i recall correctly, the same physics engine is applied to all cars. They just tweak settings for each car (insert weight, wheelbase, engine power numbers, etc,etc) and then it calculates and generates appropriate motion on the track
 
Ive felt all the cars feel different in gt6 compared to gt5, the physics are definatly better overall, my only issue is that most of the cars seem to oversteer on the brakes and understeer on the throttle, which for some cars is correct but not all the cars, im sure there are exceptions but it does seem to be a theme for a lot of cars
 
bodger
There would be no reason to use a completely different physics model on select cars.

The physics model together with the rendering engine got rewritten in 6. They have to be optimised together to get the maximum frame rate possible out of the PS3. PD stated that the new physics engine is more "compact", which I guess means that it takes less clock cycles to process, freeing up resources for the graphics engine etc. Throwing the older physics code in on select cars just wouldn't make sense.
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Spot on, having 2 or 3 physics engines running at the same time for different cars would not only not make sense logically but it would also ruin any chance you'd have of getting a remotely decent frame rate from a game doing hundered of calculations per second for each one of up to 16 cars on track at one time.

All of the cars use GT6 physics, there's no reason for them not to. Besides they all handle differently now and produce different lap times than GT4 and 5 as well as has been said already.
 
They really need to give us the ability to change air pressure to fully appreciate a tire model.

The most widely adjusted attribute on any race car is the tire pressure.
 
dylansan
While it's true that every car now uses the GT6 physics engine, it's certainly possible some of the cars from older games have less detailed information about suspension and such, and are therefore less accurate than other cars. They may have plugged in placeholder values for certain things, making those cars more "generic" and less unique.

But maybe they did a good job collecting data back then and only now get to use it. Or maybe they went back and collected more data for many of the cars. However, I doubt every standard is as high quality in the suspension modeling department as the full premiums, considering the errors some of the standards have in other areas.
Click to expand...

Please don't overlook this bit of information in the rest of the discussion.

As you were!
 
iLex
Please don't overlook this bit of information in the rest of the discussion.

As you were!
Click to expand...
Thats possible but it's unlikely. There is no reason why PD wouldn't take all of the information they can in the first instance and then only use the details they need to run the car in the game. In fact I'm sure Kaz has said that they take far more information than they need when they start working on a car to be included in the game.
 
iLex
Please don't overlook this bit of information in the rest of the discussion.

As you were!
Click to expand...
I haven't been able to play it yet so I can't really judge it, but actually I think it's likely they've had to do at least a little bit of "placeholding" for some of their older cars. If their new suspension modelling physics is accurate, then I'm sure it requires information about the suspension geometry of the car. Back in the GT4 era, they may not have looked into that much, instead just getting basic information about the springs and dampers and plugging that in. If they didn't look at suspension geometry then, they would have to put it in now, and I suppose they could do some research and find out what type of geometry it was, then guess a bit on the lengths and angles of everything. However, knowing PD, if they did this they probably got some wrong, maybe even getting the type of geometry wrong for some cars.

All that is of course assuming two things: that the new physics engine requires them to define the suspension geometry, and that PD doesn't already have accurate information about that for all cars. If the former isn't true then I would find it strange for them to claim the has much more accurate suspension modelling than previously. If the latter isn't true, good on PD for thinking ahead all that time ago.
 
Lawndart
They really need to give us the ability to change air pressure to fully appreciate a tire model.

The most widely adjusted attribute on any race car is the tire pressure.
Click to expand...

Couple that with a tire pyrometer and you could have some meaningful feedback to camber adjustment as well...
 
Carlos Fandango
Couple that with a tire pyrometer and you could have some meaningful feedback to camber adjustment as well...
Click to expand...
The depth of just such features would be fantastic! I always likes having to warm tires too... I can't feel that in GT 6 so much.
 

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