New psu advice.

[RUMBLERIDER]

My pc set up is-
APEVIA X-CRUISER.
ASUS P5KC MOTHERBOARD.
2-SAPHIRE ATI HD 2900XT IN CROSSFIRE.
INTEL CORE DUO E4500.
THERMALTAKE BLUE ORB FAN.
4GB CRUCIAL BALLISTIX TRACER MEMORY.
750GB SATA HARD DRIVE.
ARCTIC 700WATT PSU.
2-PIONEER 112D OPTICAL DRIVES.
SOUND BLASTER LIVE.
VISTA HOME PREMIUM.
SAMSUNG 32INCH LCD,PC RUN INTO HDMI.
LOGITECH NEW G15 KEYBOARD.
JBL CREATURE SPEAKER SYSTEM.

Can anyone advise on a new PSU as the one i have now does not want to run the crossfire & GTR2 keeps freezing & the fans stop working. Runs okay on one card.
Think i need a 1000w+ PSU,but it cant be much bigger than 15cm wide 14cm deep 8.6cm high.
Was looking at Thermaltake toughpower 1000w TT0132,any ideas if this is upto the job.

 

[the Interceptor]

Noone needs a 1000W PSU. If your current 700W PSU really is the problem, it is because it's cheap and therefore not really capable of delivering 700W. Buy a proper 500+ watt Seasonic, BeQuiet, Enermax, 600+ watt if you want to be on the safe side, and you're good to go.

EDIT: here, you can calculate how much PSU wattage you need: http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

I put in your system and ended up with a recommendation of a 493 watt PSU. Note that this is not what the system will draw from the power line, rather than what they recommend for a PSU.

 

[Omnis]

Get one of Cooler Master's new UCP series. 80+ Silver cert'd. Only prob is they're not modular. Enermax also has their Genesis 80+silver model on the way.

 

[Aero-R]

Noone needs a 1000W PSU. If your current 700W PSU really is the problem, it is because it's cheap and therefore not really capable of delivering 700W. Buy a proper 500+ watt Seasonic, BeQuiet, Enermax, 600+ watt if you want to be on the safe side, and you're good to go.

+1

Or it could be not the PSU, who knows.

I've a Corsair PSU (made by Seasonic), the VX550, and it's quiet as hell. I suggest it for thos who don't need more than 550W, it's amazing. No problems with it at all. Anyway if you're thinking about buy a PSU I could suggest you the modular (if needed) series of the lastest Corsair, they give you 700 & 1000 W too, but as the Interceptor said, you don't need those 1000W. You could look for the 500W modular one or so. Enermax ones are great too.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Non-modular PSUs are more stable.

 

[Omnis]

+1

Or it could be not the PSU, who knows.

I've a Corsair PSU (made by Seasonic), the VX550, and it's quiet as hell. I suggest it for thos who don't need more than 550W, it's amazing. No problems with it at all. Anyway if you're thinking about buy a PSU I could suggest you the modular (if needed) series of the lastest Corsair, they give you 700 & 1000 W too, but as the Interceptor said, you don't need those 1000W. You could look for the 500W modular one or so. Enermax ones are great too.

I thought corsair's VXs were made by CWT. Doesn't Seasonic make the HX?

 

[Robin]

The only way to truly get a quiet PSU is to buy passive or do what I did and modify the unit with new casing and 120 & 80mm fans which run independent of the PSU's control. Basically I control the speed now and I always have them at 5V which is inaudible. I also have a temp sensor to monitor the PSU and its always fine... basically stock fans are always set to cooling overkill because the companies dont want a lawsuit!

As for power no one needs 1000W! Its just going to send your energy bill sky high, there are some sites which run a PSU wattage calculator to recommended you the power you need based on what you have in the system.

Robin

 

[the Interceptor]

The only way to truly get a quiet PSU is to buy passive or do what I did and modify the unit with new casing and 120 & 80mm fans which run independent of the PSU's control. Basically I control the speed now and I always have them at 5V which is inaudible. I also have a temp sensor to monitor the PSU and its always fine... basically stock fans are always set to cooling overkill because the companies dont want a lawsuit!

There's no need to do this if you buy a PSU of a company that applies a proper fan setup and an intelligent fan control. Seasonic for example is very good at that. On another note, I suppose that the two graphics cards alone generate more noise than a good PSU.

 

[Robin]

There's no need to do this if you buy a PSU of a company that applies a proper fan setup and an intelligent fan control. Seasonic for example is very good at that. On another note, I suppose that the two graphics cards alone generate more noise than a good PSU.

Yeah companies offer reasonable stock options but there are none which let you totally control the speed because its potentially dangerous.. The stock fans will always be electronically controlled to air on the side of caution meaning unnecessary noise. I doubt any stock unit will run a fan at 5V for the entire time a PC is on regardless of temperature, all im saying is that if you want super quiet you have to bypass the PSU and just keep an eye out on the temp. But I can understand not everyone wants to mod stuff because there are risks.

You can get passive graphics card options, as long as you have a huge heatsink a gentle case airflow things should be fine.. even running a fan at 5V on them should be ok.

Yes im a quiet PC nutter...

Robin

 

[the Interceptor]

Yeah companies offer reasonable stock options but there are none which let you totally control the speed because its potentially dangerous.. The stock fans will always be electronically controlled to air on the side of caution meaning unnecessary noise.

Not necessarily. Like I said, a good PSU from a manufacturer that knows its job can be very quiet. See this Enermax for example:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article806-page5.html

Note that the fan noise only rises significantly when you get above 500W.

I doubt any stock unit will run a fan at 5V for the entire time a PC is on regardless of temperature, all im saying is that if you want super quiet you have to bypass the PSU and just keep an eye out on the temp. But I can understand not everyone wants to mod stuff because there are risks.

Exactly. Capacitors can easily die within months or even weeks if you expose them to the extensive heat of a modded PSU. A thing I successfully did in the past was put a small resistor into the power supply of the PSU fan or change it for a slower model. That way, you can take advantage of the PSUs intelligent fan speed adjustment and have a quieter PSU.

You can get passive graphics card options, as long as you have a huge heatsink a gentle case airflow things should be fine.. even running a fan at 5V on them should be ok.

Agreed, but you'll have trouble finding a heatsink that

a) fits
b) works well

in a Crossfire setup such as the one we're talking about.

Yes im a quiet PC nutter...

So am I, I absolutely understand what you're after. But there are situations where it's better to not mod something for absolute silence, rather than just get a part that works well and is quite enough out of the box. If one of the recommended PSUs is too loud for Rumblerider, he can still change the fan later. For now, I'd just go with a stock version of one of the following models:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article806-page1.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article692-page1.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article813-page1.html
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article656-page1.html

 

[Robin]

So am I, I absolutely understand what you're after. But there are situations where it's better not to mod something for absolutte silence, rather than just get a part that works well and is quite enough out of the box.

I suppose, but where would the fun it that be! .. I just like experimenting around with stuff. I was happy with the PSU just not the fans so I didnt want to just through it away.

Exactly. Capacitors can easily die within months or even weeks if you expose them to the extensive heat of a modded PSU. A thing I successfully did in the past was put a small resistor into the power supply of the PSU fan or change it for a slower model. That way, you can take advantage of the PSUs intelligent fan speed adjustment and have a quieter PSU.

Well this PSU has run like this for 3 years nearly entirely on 5V even in the height of summer so I guess its worked out quite well. I could have just wired up slower higher quality fans to the PSU but I wanted the total control through a Zalman fanmate.

So am I, I absolutely understand what you're after. But there are situations where it's better to not mod something for absolute silence, rather than just get a part that works well and is quite enough out of the box.

I agree, ive bought lots of stock passive cooling stuff to get the desired silent effect! But for some things in interesting to see how quiet you can get it by doing your own stuff.

Robin

 

[RUMBLERIDER]

Noone needs a 1000W PSU. If your current 700W PSU really is the problem, it is because it's cheap and therefore not really capable of delivering 700W. Buy a proper 500+ watt Seasonic, BeQuiet, Enermax, 600+ watt if you want to be on the safe side, and you're good to go.

EDIT: here, you can calculate how much PSU wattage you need: http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

I put in your system and ended up with a recommendation of a 493 watt PSU. Note that this is not what the system will draw from the power line, rather than what they recommend for a PSU.

Thanks for your advice, i think the psu is most likely cheap as it came in the build,as a replacement for the one i really wanted.
It used to run GTR2 RFACTOR & RACE 07, but now they all freeze.
The reason i thought it may be the psu, is because the Apevia case fans also stop running, & i wondered if the psu had degraded over time.
Any other ideas of what could cause this problem other than the psu.

 

[the Interceptor]

Are you running any temperature monitoring software? If not, you should, and check the temperatures of the mainboard (chipset), the graphics cards and the cpu.

 

[RUMBLERIDER]

Are you running any temperature monitoring software? If not, you should, and check the temperatures of the mainboard (chipset), the graphics cards and the cpu.

Can you please suggest some software.

 

[the Interceptor]

try speedfan: http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

Also, check whether there is a temperature monitoring software on the CD that came with your mainboard. Manufacturers often provide such software. That'd be easier and enough for our purposes.

 

[Aero-R]

Non-modular PSUs are more stable.

+1, and non-modular ones also do less noise since some modular do a bit of electrical noise, but it's almost non-audible anyway.

I thought corsair's VXs were made by CWT. Doesn't Seasonic make the HX?

My error yes, VX series by CWT, HX series by Seasonic.

The only way to truly get a quiet PSU is to buy passive or do what I did and modify the unit with new casing and 120 & 80mm fans which run independent of the PSU's control. Basically I control the speed now and I always have them at 5V which is inaudible. I also have a temp sensor to monitor the PSU and its always fine... basically stock fans are always set to cooling overkill because the companies dont want a lawsuit!

Then with a 80mm fan you're doing the opossite. There are several PSU that comes with stock 140mm or 120mm fans and are pretty silent. For example my Corsair comes with an ADDA fan, and ADDA is also used for the Lian Li cases I buy. They are one of the most quiet fans on the market, and if you combine that with a good manufacturer and a good range (for examlpe if you need let's say 320W, buy a 500W in order to be working on the quietest mode of your PSU since it won't be at it's 100% and won't need to rev. up it's fan so much). I'm on quiet PC thing too and I was thinking about buy a fanless one but honestly, they were all killed by the VX550 on efficienty and stabitly and when I was to the shop to hear it's noise it has been the quietest PSU that I've never seen, so I'm trying to tell you that sometimes the intelligent regulator of some PSU are really well done. And there are a few Enermax and Seasonic that kill my VX550 too.

By the way RUMBLERIDER, that 700W PSU only comes with that 80mm fan on the front?, for a 700W PSU I was looking for a 120mm or 140mm one.. maybe it's a problem of heat instead of watts or efficiency. Do you have any kind of thermal sensor to put on the PSU and get it's temp while working on different situations?

 

[the Interceptor]

As for temperature monitoring tools, try the Asus AI suite. It came with your mainboard, but you can also download it here: http://support.asus.com/download/download.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P5KC

I suppose that your mainboard is called P5K-C, and not P5KKC, right? I didn't find any board called P5KKC anywhere.

 

[RUMBLERIDER]

try speedfan: http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

Also, check whether there is a temperature monitoring software on the CD that came with your mainboard. Manufacturers often provide such software. That'd be easier and enough for our purposes.

Excuse my ignorance, i downloaded the software but do not know what i am looking for.
Here is a picture, just running a web page, with one 2900xt running.

 

[the Interceptor]

What we're looking for is the range of temperatures on the right side of the window. The CPU is alright, but the system and the HDD are too hot. The HDD won't cause the crashing, it'll just live shorter, but the too hot system may cause crashes and freezes.

Try the Asus temperature tool I linked above to give some more insight and make sure speedfan reads the correct temperatures. If the system, namely the chipset, turns out to be the actual problem, upgrading its cooling will do the trick.

 

[RUMBLERIDER]

What we're looking for is the range of temperatures on the right side of the window. The CPU is alright, but the system and the HDD are too hot. The HDD won't cause the crashing, it'll just live shorter, but the too hot system may cause crashes and freezes.

Try the Asus temperature tool I linked above to give some more insight and make sure speedfan reads the correct temperatures. If the system, namely the chipset, turns out to be the actual problem, upgrading its cooling will do the trick.

Any ideas from this,system 52c.

 

[the Interceptor]

Okay, Speedfan was right then. Well, 52°C for the system at idle definitely is too hot. There's no danger of damage, but a too hot mainboard can destabilize the whole system.

You can try something: open the side of the case, take some PC fan and point it at the northbridge (the small copper heatsink above the graphics card). Then see if the system temperature improves. If so, run your critical games and see if there's any more stability.

 

[RUMBLERIDER]

Okay, Speedfan was right then. Well, 52°C for the system at idle definitely is too hot. There's no danger of damage, but a too hot mainboard can destabilize the whole system.

You can try something: open the side of the case, take some PC fan and point it at the northbridge (the small copper heatsink above the graphics card). Then see if the system temperature improves. If so, run your critical games and see if there's any more stability.

Thanks i will have a go later.
Much appreciated.

 

[RUMBLERIDER]

Okay, Speedfan was right then. Well, 52°C for the system at idle definitely is too hot. There's no danger of damage, but a too hot mainboard can destabilize the whole system.

You can try something: open the side of the case, take some PC fan and point it at the northbridge (the small copper heatsink above the graphics card). Then see if the system temperature improves. If so, run your critical games and see if there's any more stability.

Opened the case got the temp to 44c using a small desk fan.
Race 07 did run for a while, but i crashed the car looking at the pc & not concentrating,& the whole pc froze again. Again as soon as i started the game the case fans stopped.
This was all on crossfire.

 

[the Interceptor]

Again as soon as i started the game the case fans stopped.

Oops, kinda missed that bit before. That's definitely not normal. What are the case fans connected to? The mainboard or the PSU directly?

And am I right in saying that your PC runs fine when you use one graphics card, but crashes after a while when you run crossfire?

 

[RUMBLERIDER]

Oops, kinda missed that bit before. That's definitely not normal. What are the case fans connected to? The mainboard or the PSU directly?

And am I right in saying that your PC runs fine when you use one graphics card, but crashes after a while when you run crossfire?

Hard to see even with both side panels off, not the best wiring to me & i know nothing. They go into some connectors & the wires from them are hard to see. Maybe into mainboard.
Yes plays games on one card okay, crashes on crossfire, the thing is i could use the crossfire until recently,as long as i closed web browsers & memeo back up.
The temp is still rather a worry though now 51c case fans running.

 

[RUMBLERIDER]

Have come to a conclusion that i do need a better PSU,as i unplugged all the usb equipment except keyboard & mouse, run Race 07 in crossfire, & it run okay but was still shutting down the case fans.
Any way i will post when i have the new PSU fitted, along with better & extra fans for a conclusion.
Still have to find a neat way of cooling the northbridge, as you can see there is no room to put a bigger cooler on, & no side case fan.

 

[emad]

It is possible you may be browning out your power supply... I normally buy Antec, but I went with Enermax for my most recent build. A quality 500w psu will do. Try to get something that's 80plus certified as those are guaranteed to give you enough power and are certified for 80% or higher efficiency.

If the case fans are turning off, then it's possible the fan controller on the mobo isn't working properly...

Looking at the pic of the case internals, your rear exhaust is too small - get a 120mm. You're running a crossfire config. video cards run hot and crossfire causes the northbridge to run hotter. Are you overclocked at all? Also, do you have a front intake? That'll get cool air straight to the northbridge and video cards as well as your hard drives.

 

[the Interceptor]

Still have to find a neat way of cooling the northbridge, as you can see there is no room to put a bigger cooler on, & no side case fan.

Possible northbridge cooling solutions:

http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/product_chipset_cooler.html
http://www.xigmatek.com/product/air-portern881.php

 

[RUMBLERIDER]

It is possible you may be browning out your power supply... I normally buy Antec, but I went with Enermax for my most recent build. A quality 500w psu will do. Try to get something that's 80plus certified as those are guaranteed to give you enough power and are certified for 80% or higher efficiency.

If the case fans are turning off, then it's possible the fan controller on the mobo isn't working properly...

Looking at the pic of the case internals, your rear exhaust is too small - get a 120mm. You're running a crossfire config. video cards run hot and crossfire causes the northbridge to run hotter. Are you overclocked at all? Also, do you have a front intake? That'll get cool air straight to the northbridge and video cards as well as your hard drives.

Already ordered some fans 120MM THERMALTAKE A1926 THUNDERBLADE BLUE LED CASE FAN for the rear exhaust, 2-80MM THERMALTAKE A1910 THUNDERBLADE BLUE LED CASE FAN for the front intake, as none are fitted,
& a THERMALTAKE TMGHD1 fan for the hard drive.
Still unsure about the PSU, thanks for your suggestions, i will research them.

 

[RUMBLERIDER]

Possible northbridge cooling solutions:

http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/product_chipset_cooler.html
http://www.xigmatek.com/product/air-portern881.php

Thanks looks like the HR-05 SLI, may fit in the space.