Toyota Supra (A90)

  • Thread starter RocZX
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05XR8
Should Toyota USA have used a Lexus like Japan has in SGT? The RC F or LC500, may have been a better fit if that's what Toyota are promoting. Or as was pointed out, does this mean the Supra will be in that Mustang/Camaro price range?
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Lexus already has the RC slotted in below the LC500 in price. I imagine the base Supra will be a similar or slightly cheaper starting price point of £35-38k (UK prices) The RC begins at £40k. The Cayman is £42k whilst the 2.3 Mustang starts at £37k and 2.0 Camaro is about £33k. It really needs to be somewhere between the Lexus/Porsche and the Ford/Chevrolet.
 
Nielsen
I'm not. It has been teased in concept form and camouflage to the point where it's starting to get more tedious than exciting, and apparently they aren't stopping for the time being.
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At this point it has become tradition for modern Japanese performance cars. The GT86, R35, NSX and LFA development phases were all dragged out for a long time.

Nothing beats the next Mazda RX though, we're still unsure if it even exists! :scared:
 
SecretAgentZero
Except the MR-2 or Celica revivals.
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I was just talking about this with a friend recently: there's no real room for a Celica replacement in Toyota's lineup. The 86 has essentially taken that spot, and it seems like the Supra will occupy the land somewhere north of the 370Z, but be usefully smaller than the Mustang/Camaro.

A front-drive Celica would cause in-fighting with the 86, and I'm not even sure there's a market for mid-size front-drive coupes these days. It could be rear-drive, but there's not much wiggle room to work with there, unless the Supra is making north of 400hp.

The MR2 seems slightly more likely, but even that seems a hard one to justify in this day and age. A small car with a bespoke platform? Toyota would need another partner like Subaru or BMW, and again could run into a problem pitching it as an MX-5 competitor (the 86 already sort of does that).
 
SlipZtrEm
I was just talking about this with a friend recently: there's no real room for a Celica replacement in Toyota's lineup. The 86 has essentially taken that spot, and it seems like the Supra will occupy the land somewhere north of the 370Z, but be usefully smaller than the Mustang/Camaro.

A front-drive Celica would cause in-fighting with the 86, and I'm not even sure there's a market for mid-size front-drive coupes these days. It could be rear-drive, but there's not much wiggle room to work with there, unless the Supra is making north of 400hp.

The MR2 seems slightly more likely, but even that seems a hard one to justify in this day and age. A small car with a bespoke platform? Toyota would need another partner like Subaru or BMW, and again could run into a problem pitching it as an MX-5 competitor (the 86 already sort of does that).
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The Scion TC was essentially a Celica, and it was sold for several years alongside the FR-S in Scion's lineup. It's possible they killed it off to shift more sales to the more expensive FR-S/86 platform, but I'm not sure that worked exactly. Coupes that aren't explicitly sports cars or high end luxury cars are essentially a dead segment. I'm waiting for a manufacturer to really try on a budget luxury coupe...distill the ethos of something very desirable but expensive (LC500, S Class Coupe, etc etc) and then sell it in the 30k range. A return of the Honda Prelude? Mazda MX-6? Ugh...I miss the 90s.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
The Scion TC was essentially a Celica, and it was sold for several years alongside the FR-S in Scion's lineup. It's possible they killed it off to shift more sales to the more expensive FR-S/86 platform, but I'm not sure that worked exactly. Coupes that aren't explicitly sports cars or high end luxury cars are essentially a dead segment. I'm waiting for a manufacturer to really try on a budget luxury coupe...distill the ethos of something very desirable but expensive (LC500, S Class Coupe, etc etc) and then sell it in the 30k range. A return of the Honda Prelude? Mazda MX-6? Ugh...I miss the 90s.
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Yeah, I forgot about the tC — which is a fairly common situation, I imagine.

Really though, what falls into that category these days? A class up, Honda finally pulled the plug on the Accord Coupe. The Civic Si is practically the only car of its type in North America now. There's just zero interest in reasonably-priced personal coupes, it seems. Everyone either wants some "active lifestyle" crossover, a hatchback, or... something cheapish and rear-drive.

The Civic is within a few inches of the final Prelude in terms of length now. Bringing back that nameplate as some sort of budget luxury coupe, maybe built off the Accord platform, could be interesting, but I just can't imagine a market for it, sadly.
 
SlipZtrEm
The Civic is within a few inches of the final Prelude in terms of length now. Bringing back that nameplate as some sort of budget luxury coupe, maybe built off the Accord platform, could be interesting, but I just can't imagine a market for it, sadly.
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It would be cool if Honda or Toyota took the 'guts' of one of their hybrids, gave it some more HP & Ah, shoved it into an elegant 2+2 coupe (real 2+2, not a toddler shelf) with a great, comfortable, spacious, light-filled interior and called it a Prelude or Soarer. 50mpg+ with impeccable long distance capability and a perfect stereo. The closest anyone has come to this was the CR-Z and that was not a great effort.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
It would be cool if Honda or Toyota took the 'guts' of one of their hybrids, gave it some more HP & Ah, shoved it into an elegant 2+2 coupe (real 2+2, not a toddler shelf) with a great, comfortable, spacious, light-filled interior and called it a Prelude or Soarer. 50mpg+ with impeccable long distance capability and a perfect stereo. The closest anyone has come to this was the CR-Z and that was not a great effort.
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Lexus do. The RC, which ticks all those boxes and in the UK at least, is only available as a Hybrid (aside from the RC F) and all for the price of a Mustang GT.
 
TheCracker
Lexus do. The RC, which ticks all those boxes and in the UK at least, is only available as a Hybrid (aside from the RC F) and all for the price of a Mustang GT.
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I think he means without being Lexus pricing, which isn't all that affordable to those who want what he is asking for but on a budget. I like the idea myself but sporty sedans or 2+2 coupe don't seem to survive long in the market, so maybe the hybrid incentive might help.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I think he means without being Lexus pricing, which isn't all that affordable to those who want what he is asking for but on a budget. I like the idea myself but sporty sedans or 2+2 coupe don't seem to survive long in the market, so maybe the hybrid incentive might help.
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Honda sell a hybrid Accord in the US but it has only 212hp and costs $28k. If they did a coupe version, a Prelude if you like, that would add another $5k to the price (based on the extra you pay for a base 3-series or A4 over a 4-series or A5 coupe) add in a sportier engine and hybrid system and you'll be knocking on the door of a hybrid Lexus RC for price. You're just not going to get a luxury or quasi-luxury 2+2 (mid-sized saloon-based coupe) for under $35k. The performance hybrid version of the Ford Fusion is $8k over the same spec non-hybrid. Add that $8k to the price of a base Mustang and that's going to be $35+k, and that's not even quasi-luxurious and probably not great in the back for adults over a long distance.
 
TheCracker
Honda sell a hybrid Accord in the US but it has only 212hp and costs $28k. If they did a coupe version, a Prelude if you like, that would add another $5k to the price (based on the extra you pay for a base 3-series or A4 over a 4-series or A5 coupe) add in a sportier engine and hybrid system and you'll be knocking on the door of a hybrid Lexus RC for price. You're just not going to get a luxury or quasi-luxury 2+2 (mid-sized saloon-based coupe) for under $35k. The performance hybrid version of the Ford Fusion is $8k over the same spec non-hybrid. Add that $8k to the price of a base Mustang and that's going to be $35+k, and that's not even quasi-luxurious and probably not great in the back for adults over a long distance.
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Which is why I stated it would probably not make it anyways, but I think they could make an affordable version. The example you give is through Audi and BMW which is already seen as a more upscale premium manufactures. When you look at the RC 300 for example here you're likely to pay $42-43k, I think a car like this upcoming Supra can easily come in under that and most likely will if the Mustang and Camaro are core competitors. So why not open that up and bring back others like a Mazda RX line or MX-6, Nissan Silvia and so on (note not exactly those models). The last car that I can recall like what is being asked for that had decent success was the Genesis Coupe.

I think the reason manufactures like Honda, Toyota and so on don't have 2+2 like the 90s is simply because the market has moved past that and people who want an affordable car tend to just want that. The factors of ease, sporty, fun, and yet affordability don't seem to be there, you have to trade one for the other and the only way to get all three is either go up in the market or pick the few options available.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I think the reason manufactures like Honda, Toyota and so on don't have 2+2 like the 90s is simply because the market has moved past that and people who want an affordable car tend to just want that. The factors of ease, sporty, fun, and yet affordability don't seem to be there, you have to trade one for the other and the only way to get all three is either go up in the market or pick the few options available.
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It seems like manufacturers these days are only interested in producing cars that they can sell worldwide. They are less and less interested in producing niche models for any single market. Whilst there may still be interest in 'value' mid-sized coupes in the US and perhaps Japanese market, you might find that the European and Chinese markets only want 'premium' mid-sized coupes. Therefore they just don't see the value in developing them at all.
 
That Hyundai Velostee is probably as close to a Celica nowadays. Seems to sell well(in Australia). What's the incentive(not advantage) for a three-box design, next to that practical two-box?
 
The successor to the Celica already exists....
2018-Toyota-C-HR-rear-610x407.jpg


The Celica Coupe-High Rider. :P
 
Eunos_Cosmo
It would be cool if Honda or Toyota took the 'guts' of one of their hybrids, gave it some more HP & Ah, shoved it into an elegant 2+2 coupe (real 2+2, not a toddler shelf) with a great, comfortable, spacious, light-filled interior and called it a Prelude or Soarer. 50mpg+ with impeccable long distance capability and a perfect stereo. The closest anyone has come to this was the CR-Z and that was not a great effort.
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Is it wrong I'm getting some serious Pug 406 vibes? Because that, with some modern hybrid underpinnings, sounds fab.

"Soarer" is a fantastic name for a grand tourer, too.

05XR8
That Hyundai Velostee is probably as close to a Celica nowadays. Seems to sell well(in Australia). What's the incentive(not advantage) for a three-box design, next to that practical two-box?
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I think of the Veloster as more of a spiritual successor to the CR-X, actually. Basically, what the CR-Z should've been.
 
SlipZtrEm
Yeah, I forgot about the tC — which is a fairly common situation, I imagine.

Really though, what falls into that category these days? A class up, Honda finally pulled the plug on the Accord Coupe. The Civic Si is practically the only car of its type in North America now. There's just zero interest in reasonably-priced personal coupes, it seems. Everyone either wants some "active lifestyle" crossover, a hatchback, or... something cheapish and rear-drive.

The Civic is within a few inches of the final Prelude in terms of length now. Bringing back that nameplate as some sort of budget luxury coupe, maybe built off the Accord platform, could be interesting, but I just can't imagine a market for it, sadly.
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The Civic itself seems a lot larger in person than I expected it to be, I suppose that's why they axed the Accord Coupe, the Civic Coupe looks to be about in between the previous gen and the Accord.
 
RocZX
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I can tell what it looks like without the livery. The only thing I really hate and is also on the race car is how the front fascia doesn't connect at the bottom. It's these two big squares on either side below the lights and they don't connect. It bothers my sense of order?
 

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