Toyota Supra (A90)

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The Supra might as well be D.O.A. if it gets above $70K and isn't pushing in the ballpark of 500Hp for the US. May do better overseas where the horsepower wars aren't as prominent, but that price range is RC-F territory. To me, that would seem embarrassing if the Supra gets into a pricing match with the RC-F and can't compete with it (the RC-F isn't exactly raved for its track prowess).

I wonder if this is suppose to be some segment dominating car, where no other car is really in the same territory as it and thus that is what helps it sell. Similar the the BRZ/86 is what I feel (as many of us have) Toyota is trying to achieve, by taking over a market segment. But as you said there is a horsepower war going on, and it probably wont be going away, so if this is a solid return of a mark like the Supra it will need to do something to last here in the States.

The higher you go up in the market of sports cars the more impossible it is to not have something with big power numbers and performance figures all around. They can get away with what they do with the BRZ because for that segment it should be a low power, tuner friendly, fun to drive off the lot type car without much more in performance figures. They can't do that with the Supra I think.

 

[05XR8]

The Supra might as well be D.O.A. if it gets above $70K and isn't pushing in the ballpark of 500Hp for the US. May do better overseas where the horsepower wars aren't as prominent, but that price range is RC-F territory. To me, that would seem embarrassing if the Supra gets into a pricing match with the RC-F and can't compete with it (the RC-F isn't exactly raved for its track prowess).

I'm beginning to think USA SALES, will be minimal like NSX. Talk of the Supra being in GT300, not as a GT3 car, may reflect that. Seems like it won't be in the 86/BR-Z territory, in sales worldwide. Hope it's nothing like what I'm thinking.

 

[mustafur]

So it's going to be more expensive then the BMW it's based on?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I wonder if this is suppose to be some segment dominating car, where no other car is really in the same territory as it and thus that is what helps it sell.

To be fair, I'm not really sure if there even is another car in it's segment. What other car is similar in terms of layout & size? The 370z is bigger (I'm pretty sure) and probably nowhere close in terms of performance (cost too). The Corvette is closer, but appeals to a different set of people I think. In the real world, I'm guessing that the Porsche Cayman will likely be the nearest competitor in terms of ethos, price, and appeal.

 

[Danoff]

The Supra might as well be D.O.A. if it gets above $70K and isn't pushing in the ballpark of 500Hp for the US. May do better overseas where the horsepower wars aren't as prominent, but that price range is RC-F territory. To me, that would seem embarrassing if the Supra gets into a pricing match with the RC-F and can't compete with it (the RC-F isn't exactly raved for its track prowess).

I wonder if this is suppose to be some segment dominating car, where no other car is really in the same territory as it and thus that is what helps it sell. Similar the the BRZ/86 is what I feel (as many of us have) Toyota is trying to achieve, by taking over a market segment. But as you said there is a horsepower war going on, and it probably wont be going away, so if this is a solid return of a mark like the Supra it will need to do something to last here in the States.

The higher you go up in the market of sports cars the more impossible it is to not have something with big power numbers and performance figures all around. They can get away with what they do with the BRZ because for that segment it should be a low power, tuner friendly, fun to drive off the lot type car without much more in performance figures. They can't do that with the Supra I think.

It'll find a home. If some of them sell here then the price will tank to what it's actually worth, and then people will buy them second hand at a good price point and love them. Actually, I find it hard to think of a better way to guarantee some serious aftermarket tuning nonsense than to have the price fall quickly after initial sale. Perfect for the Supra.

 

[McLaren]

If the price falls shortly after release and people start buying them at that price, new or used, I would think that would reinforce the idea it was overpriced to begin with.

2nd hand market for these things the first year imo, are either going to be sparse bc no one’s buying it new or overvalued because someone thinks they can flip it. Probably won’t be til the 2nd or 3rd year the second market really shows what it’s worth.

 

[20832]

If the price falls shortly after release and people start buying them at that price, new or used, I would think that would reinforce the idea it was overpriced to begin with.

2nd hand market for these things the first year imo, are either going to be sparse bc no one’s buying it new or overvalued because someone thinks they can flip it. Probably won’t be til the 2nd or 3rd year the second market really shows what it’s worth.

Given the limited first-batch production run, I'd personally even see the price increase after the initial launch and I personally don't think that the pricing for 2nd hand models is going to decrease significantly either. Traditionally the prices are quite stable for these sorts of cars, at least here in Germany. Even a car such as the GT86 is starting to level out in terms of depreciation and is going to remain at a certain level and is most likely even going to go up in pricing, similar to something like a S2000 or 350Z.

At this point, it's obviously speculation, but I can certainly see that happen with the Straight-6.
The cheaper option is obviously going to be the 2.5L-Turbo 4, that's going to launch later down the line, which is part of the reason, why the car is starting at a somewhat suprisingly high initial price.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It'll find a home. If some of them sell here then the price will tank to what it's actually worth, and then people will buy them second hand at a good price point and love them. Actually, I find it hard to think of a better way to guarantee some serious aftermarket tuning nonsense than to have the price fall quickly after initial sale. Perfect for the Supra.

My view point was that of long term viability for the mark, rather than a flash in the pan let's see where this goes. I agree that this view point of yours will probably happen, since it's a very popular thing that happens when sports cars have average to poor sales. Or get a popular second wind after their production ends.

If the price falls shortly after release and people start buying them at that price, new or used, I would think that would reinforce the idea it was overpriced to begin with.

2nd hand market for these things the first year imo, are either going to be sparse bc no one’s buying it new or overvalued because someone thinks they can flip it. Probably won’t be til the 2nd or 3rd year the second market really shows what it’s worth.

This is more the main point of what we're getting at, which is why is that the commanding price for what is supposedly so far known. And are they even concerned with making it sell for a long time period, or is this simply banking on the name and the 20 years since the last version of people asking for another Supra?

To be fair, I'm not really sure if there even is another car in it's segment. What other car is similar in terms of layout & size? The 370z is bigger (I'm pretty sure) and probably nowhere close in terms of performance (cost too). The Corvette is closer, but appeals to a different set of people I think. In the real world, I'm guessing that the Porsche Cayman will likely be the nearest competitor in terms of ethos, price, and appeal.

That was the point of the bold text, Toyota have a car that is alone in its segment (BRZ/86). There have been other cars in recent times that have been sole cars of the segment they operate in. Or the segment is very narrow and a couple of cars exist. The Supra as I'm suggesting is one of those cars. This tends to go one way but can go the other, and that is the car doesn't sell because what is offered and asked don't meet up. The 86 is different because people know what they're getting for that range and know that there isn't many other options. Other than spending a few thousand more and getting a Camaro or Mustang or even a WRX.

The 370z I would hope would be under the upcoming Supra because price surely is. The Corvette while prices similarly at that range is purely performance driven and I'd expect that the size and luxury aspect is why those two aren't in the same bracket.

The only car I can think of that would be a competitor to the Supra as far as price and potential performance is the 718.

 

[McLaren]

This is more the main point of what we're getting at, which is why is that the commanding price for what is supposedly so far known. And are they even concerned with making it sell for a long time period, or is this simply banking on the name and the 20 years since the last version of people asking for another Supra?

That would be really sad if they don't have a long-term plan for this car, and it's just a cash-grab for the first couple years. I mean, yeah, there's a ton of highly unrealistic expectations being set by the current Mk. IV owners but for the rest of us who can't/don't want to deal with that car's market, this new car is supposed to be our chance at experiencing Toyota's most popular model family; it would have to hurt tremendously if this car flopped in any way.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

https://jalopnik.com/a-bmw-parts-catalog-apparently-already-has-parts-for-th-1829535836

Supra replacement OEM parts have been leaked by BMW

Here is the website showing 3 Supra models: 20i, 30i, 40i

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select?product=P&archive=0&series=J29

The 20i is available in Europe. It has the B48D engine and R/LHD
The 30i is available in Europe (B48D engine) and America (B46D engine)
The 40i is also available in Europe and America. It has the B58C engine for both regions.

There are a lot of cool things on the website:

Spoiler

Engines:

Turbo for the 4 cyl:

Optional mirror caps from M Performance

Engine cover

Gearshift

Steering wheel

All rim options including spare tire rim

Major body panels

Interior

Instrument panel. Looks like it's different from BMW's which is nice

Lights

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I KNEW that dashboard shown in the concept was a decoy!

 

[ProjectWHaT]

Interestingly, the instrument panel was correct

 

[05XR8]

I'm excited.

When I think about the R35, how many people were upset it didn’t come with a manual transmission? Was probably a nonissue. This car is probably one of the few autos I like.

 

[RocZX]

It looks like there is no visible exerior difference between the 3 trim levels, that's stupid.

 

[FT-1]

Does anyone else prefer the Emergency wheel to the 19" wheel option? The Nostalgia is real.

Of the wheels you can equip from the factory, I think the 18" option looks best. But really, I think there should be a lightweight variant with the spare wheels fitted as standard.

 

[McLaren]

I was hoping the gearknob and dash would be more unique for the production car, but it looks like that’s coming straight out of BMW. No wonder this car is going to be pricey.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

In comparison, here's the Z4's interior

 

[ProjectWHaT]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/th...-modeled-from-the-leaked-parts-diagrams.1406/

Someone from the Supra forums put together all the leaked parts into one picture

 

[Keef]

Has anybody considered the fact that Toyota gave this Supra the exact same F1-lookalike nose and grille treatment that plagued Mercedes in the mid- to late-2000s and still plagues Ferrari to this day? It actually smacks of 2004 SLR and SLK. Truly horrible.

Toyota F1 2020 confirmed?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Has anybody considered the fact that Toyota gave this Supra the exact same F1-lookalike nose and grille treatment that plagued Mercedes in the mid- to late-2000s and still plagues Ferrari to this day? It actually smacks of 2004 SLR and SLK. Truly horrible.

Toyota F1 2020 confirmed?

What F1 lookalike nose?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Has anybody considered the fact that Toyota gave this Supra the exact same F1-lookalike nose and grille treatment that plagued Mercedes in the mid- to late-2000s and still plagues Ferrari to this day? It actually smacks of 2004 SLR and SLK. Truly horrible.

Toyota F1 2020 confirmed?

Yeah, I've hated the 'nose' since they first showed the FT-1.

Also, the 'vent' in the door is a joke, right? Right guys? That won't actually look like that, right?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yeah, I've hated the 'nose' since they first showed the FT-1.

Also, the 'vent' in the door is a joke, right? Right guys? That won't actually look like that, right?

The posts says "leaked parts" thus they aren't official and neither is the person who put it all together. It could look like that it could not, I'm not really seeing the issue with the door vent. Wouldn't be the first car to have one.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

What F1 lookalike nose?

He's talking about how the front narrows to a point sort of like how F1 cars look and the cars he mentioned
Example pic:

Spoiler

Although, yes, the old Mercedes were quite ugly, but I think the modern version of the "F1 nose" isn't as bad.

Also, the 'vent' in the door is a joke, right? Right guys? That won't actually look like that, right?

Was the old side vent functional?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

He's talking about how the front narrows to a point sort of like how F1 cars look and the cars he mentioned
Example pic:

Spoiler

Although, yes, the old Mercedes were quite ugly, but I think the modern version of the "F1 nose" isn't as bad.

Was the old side vent functional?

I guess I never really attributed the current nose to F1 because to me it was clear the design philosophy for the Gazoo cars was a derivative of the P1

Though now that it has been mentioned as far as the Ferrari goes, and you posting the images. I can see what he means by the F1 style in the current Ferrari. I never would have really noticed it for some reason if you hadn't shown me. I guess that's just how passive I am about their design these days even though they're not that bad to me. I understood what he meant about the Mercs though, I just didn't see this car as bad as those. Nor did I find it F1 like back then.

Also it seems to be something seen in other designs though much harder due to the general car itself but like this.

 

[05XR8]

He's talking about how the front narrows to a point sort of like how F1 cars look and the cars he mentioned
Example pic:

Spoiler

Although, yes, the old Mercedes were quite ugly, but I think the modern version of the "F1 nose" isn't as bad.

Was the old side vent functional?

"Spoiler" Sorry.

 

[Normalaatsra]

Wow the awkward front bumper design has been fixed. It's like how the awkward lines of the Lexus LFA somehow all work to become a beautiful masterpiece.

 

[05XR8]

I guess I never really attributed the current nose to F1 because to me it was clear the design philosophy for the Gazoo cars was a derivative of the P1

Though now that it has been mentioned as far as the Ferrari goes, and you posting the images. I can see what he means by the F1 style in the current Ferrari. I never would have really noticed it for some reason if you hadn't shown me. I guess that's just how passive I am about their design these days even though they're not that bad to me. I understood what he meant about the Mercs though, I just didn't see this car as bad as those. Nor did I find it F1 like back then.

Also it seems to be something seen in other designs though much harder due to the general car itself but like this.

It's like a samurai mask

 

[CodeRedR51]

The posts says "leaked parts" thus they aren't official and neither is the person who put it all together.

Leaked official documents. I'd say that's pretty solid.

 

[RocZX]

Leaked official documents. I'd say that's pretty solid.

How are they offical documents? They are from a 3rd party site that has no affiliation with BMW or Toyota.

 

[CodeRedR51]

How are they offical documents? They are from a 3rd party site that has no affiliation with BMW or Toyota.

They look like patent drawings to me.