No more Cayenne or Panamera?

[Philly]

That's right, VW is considering giving these models the axe after the takeover of Porsche.

The past couple years have been a whirlwind for Porsche. The German luxury sportscar maker tried in vein to buy out the much larger Volkswagen only to come within a $700 million VW loan of bankruptcy. During that time, Porsche managed to hatch the all-new four door Panamera while refining much of the rest of its product lineup.

Nobody really knows what's going to happen to Porsche product lineup once VW takes over the mighty little sports car manufacturer, but CAR Magazine in the U.K. seems to think that the change will be dramatic. Namely, the British site says the cash-printing Cayenne SUV and the fresh on the market Panamera will be on the outs when the vehicles' product cycles end in seven years. CAR says VW chairman Ferdinand Piech is planning to take a more brand-specific approach to Porsche by focusing on the two seat sportscars that make the Stuttgart, Germany-based sports car maker great. One vehicle often rumored is a roadster that could slot below the Boxster in the Porsche lineup. The entry Porsche could be based on VW's Modular Sportscar Structure (MSS), giving Porsche an entry level mid-engine sports car for the rest of us (who have at least $35-40k).

While it makes sense for Porsche to focus on core products like the 911 and Boxster, it also makes abundant sense to keep profits coming. The Cayenne sells in relatively high numbers here in the U.S., and the Panamera could well end up being a success story in spite of its controversial aesthetics. Seven years is a long time, and we could easily see one or both vehicles surviving beyond 2016.

I'm not sure what to think. It will be cool to see Porsche be more "pure" again, but there isn't much wrong with the Cayenne or Panamera and they profits they'll bring in.

Although I guess it is up to VW. With Porsche no longer independent, they don't have to worry about profitability as much and can focus on what they do best.

 

[Stotty]

I just read this too... Can't see it happening unless Porsche are losing money on these models.. and they aren't, they are making huge amounts of cash.

 

[Jim Prower]

Panamera's barely gone on sale, and they wanna axe it?

Besides, I see enough Cayennes that I consider them basically Lexuses. They've been a successful model for Porsche.

 

[the_fatadder]

theres being a successful model, and then there is fitting within the overall VW Group properly.

For a start given the long term nature of the forcast (and the current trends with big 4x4s) chances are that by the Cayenne's deletion date it wouldnt be financially viable to create a new one.

With the Panamera, theres also the impact it has upon the other brands in the range (ie is it taking sales away from Audi/Bentley etc.)

Personally I think it sounds a very sensible decision, to have Porsche just concentrate on what they do best (Thinking about the 'baby' baby Porsche idea sounds a bit suspect, as wouldnt that be getting into Audi TT territory? Could make sense as a more direct Z4/SLK rival though (and would have a much better badge, which is a very important feature in that class).

What I really hope is that VW Porsche actually takes a few risks with their design, rather than churning out the same thing with minor changes year on year....

 

[Joey D]

While the Panamera is one of the ugliest cars on sale current in my opinion I really don't see why it should be axed just yet. I mean my god, how long was that thing in production. It just feels like a colossal waste of time, money and resources.

 

[YSSMAN]

Okay, I guess? I can understand the Cayenne choice, as it stands directly on the toes of the Touraeg and Q7. As for the Panamera... Why? People may not like the look of the car, but its brilliant otherwise. I'd say that if they are threatening the axe, I'd hope they do something else with the platform, engines, etc. How about a 928 redux?

 

[Philly]

What I really hope is that VW Porsche actually takes a few risks with their design, rather than churning out the same thing with minor changes year on year....

I'm thinking (well, hoping at least) that VW will probably leave Porsche to itself somewhat. Yeah, VW will be out there deciding what models there should be and should not be. But I imagine Porsche will still be able to design their cars how they want.

 

[the_fatadder]

I'm thinking (well, hoping at least) that VW will probably leave Porsche to itself somewhat. Yeah, VW will be out there deciding what models there should be and should not be. But I imagine Porsche will still be able to design their cars how they want.

True, but the top management guys will no doubt be seeing a lot of changes. And this sort of design direction will to some extent come down from the top. While I dont expect to see massive changes (like say how different some of the 80s stuff was to what came before/after), it would be nice for the next Boxster/Cayman & potential new baby Porsche to have their identities rather than 'just' being scaled versions of the 911. (to be honest to some extent before the matching 911 came along, the original boxster did this nicely....)

Of course saying that VW group do have have a tendency for a lot of cars to look very similar (both through part sharing across brands and a corporate look across ranges (eg Auldis often look very similar) Though even with Auldi, 'special' cars like the R8 look very different!

 

[///M-Spec]

The Cayenne can go as far as I'm concerned.

But the Panamera makes way more sense within the Porsche lineup. It also makes sense to spawn a new 928 based off it. I'd hate to see it die a slow death.

If both cars continue to sell well, I can easily see VW changing it's mind. They are, after all, in business to make money.


M

 

[TopGearFan08]

The Cayenne is a direct competitor to the Tuareg, so theres one good reason to axe it. The Panemera probably competes with the VW Phaeton and top of the line Audi's too.

VAG seem to minimize the internal competition where possible, VW make good cheap cars, Audi handle the luxury market and Porsche can look after the supersports segment.

 

[Omnis]

Dear Vag,

Don't slaughter your cash cows.

 

[the_fatadder]

The Cayenne is a direct competitor to the Tuareg, so theres one good reason to axe it. The Panemera probably competes with the VW Phaeton and top of the line Audi's too.

VAG seem to minimize the internal competition where possible, VW make good cheap cars, Audi handle the luxury market and Porsche can look after the supersports segment.

Pretty much sums it up there, and I'd certianly add Bentley into the mix for the Panemera (even if they are typically more expensive, I'd say that your average Bentley Flying Spur customer (or footballer as he is otherwise known), may just be tempted towads the cheaper (by 20grand) Porsche...


I'd be very supprised to see Audi replace the R8 given the simularitys with a Porsche....

 

[McLaren]

I say keep 'em and build purer sports cars, to the best of the money-wise ability, of course.

But honestly, I am happier to see Ferdinand back in arms of Porsche than the current issue. With him in control, I can only imagine a new-age 917 to come from one of the car's original creators.

The Cayenne is a direct competitor to the Tuareg, so theres one good reason to axe it. The Panemera probably competes with the VW Phaeton and top of the line Audi's too.

VAG seem to minimize the internal competition where possible, VW make good cheap cars, Audi handle the luxury market and Porsche can look after the supersports segment.

The Phaeton will have a hard time competing with the Panamera in the US, even if it does "supposedly" come back.

As for the Audi's & Porsche issue, I doubt it'll be that big. Here in Dallas, at one time, we had a showroom of Porsche's next to Audi's, that including a Touareg next to a Cayenne. The only reason it changed is that Boardwalk wanted a bigger dealership for Porsche for its increased sales.

 

[///M-Spec]

The Cayenne is a direct competitor to the Tuareg, so theres one good reason to axe it.

Negative. Cayenne and Touareg appeal to distinctly different customers.

If VW were concerned about cannibalizing Touareg sales, neither the Audi Q7 nor Cayenne would ever have been built, since the three share a platform.

The Panemera probably competes with the VW Phaeton and top of the line Audi's too.

The Phaeton is a Mercedes-Benz S-class competitor.

The Panamera will probably take some sales away from S6 and S8. It will also take sales away from the BMW M5 and E63 AMG and even the Cayenne Turbo as well.

But again, there is already plenty of overlap within VAG between brands. There is even overlap between products within each brand.

VAG seem to minimize the internal competition where possible, VW make good cheap cars, Audi handle the luxury market and Porsche can look after the supersports segment.

Disagree. There is huge overlap between VW and SEAT. VW and Audi have some significant overlap at the lower end. Audi and Lamborghini have some overlap at the top end with R8.


M

 

[ultrataco]

VW chairman Ferdinand Piech is planning to take a more brand-specific approach to Porsche by focusing on the two seat sportscars that make the Stuttgart, Germany-based sports car maker great.

Good.

 

[homeforsummer]

I say keep 'em and build purer sports cars, to the best of the money-wise ability, of course.

^ This. I think the Panamera is a good idea and I've even grown to like the styling of the Cayenne after the facelift a year or two back. There's not another large 4x4 I prefer to it. Basically though, these models make good money for Porsche so if it keeps them in the cash to develop proper sports cars like the Boxter/Cayman/911 then I'm more than happy of their existance.

I can see how VW might not want to bring out new versions when they reach the end of their product life, though I'd be mighty surprised if they didn't replace the Cayenne at least. Basically, if they bring out another Touareg then they already have the platform and it wouldn't cost much extra to develop a Porsche version, especially considering how well it would sell.

 

[Tornado]

VAG seem to minimize the internal competition where possible, VW make good cheap cars, Audi handle the luxury market and Porsche can look after the supersports segment.

Are we talking about the same company? In America, at least (though I cannot fathom how the extra cars and brands that VAG has in Europe making the situation anything but far worse), VAG seemingly designs cars so that they compete with each other on purpose.
Why would you buy an Audi S3/TT when you can get a similarly-trimmed, more practical, cheaper and arguably more refined Golf R32? Why buy a Audi A6 when you can get a Passat CC (and formerly a Passat W8)? Why buy an A8 when you can get a Phaeton? Audi used to make cars themselves that competed with each other within the Audi range. That's also ignoring the mess Lamborghini adds to the fold.
VAG has more internal model overlap than Ford does with Lincoln and Mercury, and the Cayenne and Panamera don't even contribute to it that much.

 

[the_fatadder]

Are we talking about the same company? In America, at least (though I cannot fathom how the extra cars and brands that VAG has in Europe making the situation anything but far worse), VAG seemingly designs cars so that they compete with each other on purpose.
Why would you buy an Audi S3/TT when you can get a similarly-trimmed, more practical, cheaper and arguably more refined Golf R32? Why buy a Audi A6 when you can get a Passat CC (and formerly a Passat W8)? Why buy an A8 when you can get a Phaeton? Audi used to make cars themselves that competed with each other within the Audi range. That's also ignoring the mess Lamborghini adds to the fold.
VAG has more internal model overlap than Ford does with Lincoln and Mercury, and the Cayenne and Panamera don't even contribute to it that much.

Maybe theres a lot less badge snobery in the states, but over hear your average Audi buyer would never touch a VW, for example a passet (CC or otherwise) would never be seen in the same bracket as the A6 (5 series and E class). Likewise with the TT.

While certain cars in the VW range would kill the audi equivilant (if they had the same badge), very few would take say a Pheaton seriously compared with the Audi (and certainly compared with the S Class/7 Series/ XJ (which is a shame as it really is a fantastic car, and I'd love to see more of them on the roads)

 

[bin0]

Snap! The cayenne was awesome.

 

[Tornado]

Maybe theres a lot less badge snobery in the states, but over hear your average Audi buyer would never touch a VW, for example a passet (CC or otherwise) would never be seen in the same bracket as the A6 (5 series and E class).

Very few people would cross-shop a Cayenne with a Touareg, as well. And the Panamera isn't even the same type of car as the A6 is.

 

[Omnis]

I would get a Cayenne if they morphed it into a screaming wagon.

 

[Blackbird.]

Okay, I guess? I can understand the Cayenne choice, as it stands directly on the toes of the Touraeg and Q7. As for the Panamera... Why? People may not like the look of the car, but its brilliant otherwise. I'd say that if they are threatening the axe, I'd hope they do something else with the platform, engines, etc. How about a 928 redux?

I strongly disagree, it looks awkward but it's not bad looking at all. There's other cars out there that are coming out that are just bad *cough*2010 Jaguar XJ*cough*

 

[TwinSpark]

Disagree. There is huge overlap between VW and SEAT. VW and Audi have some significant overlap at the lower end. Audi and Lamborghini have some overlap at the top end with R8.


M

There's even more overlap between Seat and Skoda, another VAG brand.