No more understeer.

[romanryunin]

This is something that has been discussed before, but this is my summary that should help the newcomers, especially the ones who are not the technical heads but rather follow their intuition and feelings.


I was one of those guys who loved the game at first sight but soon got disappointed with it as it seemed that on normal or sports tires, the cars generally understeer too much.

Then I did long, long research on the net regarding this issue.

If you are still angry with the understeer issue, here are some basic ideas which should help you totally change your opinion:

Stock cars generally DO understeer , even FR cars, as it is safer for a normal driver.

As you can't sense the speed (as much as you would do IRL) and the G force and the grip in the game, you tend to drive TOO fast, brake TOO late and steer TOO much in the corner.

All of this generates LOADS of understeer and would do so even in a real car.

Don't slam the brakes as it is much less effective than braking 75 percent or so.

Don't fight the steering wheel - especially if you don't have DFP. My basic DF requires very gentle inputs, otherwise you lock the steering very quickly - understeer immediately.

Drifting is not something that FR or RR or MR cars do naturally, it is something that has to be induced by a special technique by the driver. (Correct me if this idea is wrong, as I am not very good at drifting theory)



So when I applied this totally new style of driving, I quickly got lap times on sports tires that I previously only achieved with race tires. Before I thought the sports tires sucked. Now I see the way I drove sucked.

 

[Ikari_San]

Yeah I think you're right, I mean with most cars when you scream into a corner with full brakes there's understeer, then when you come off the brakes the front kind of points out of the corner and dives back in. With controlled braking this doesn't tend to happen.

I still think the sports tires are not entirely accurate because in most cars you can't do donuts when in RL you could, so any of the standard tires seems to be more realistic to me.

 

[romanryunin]

I still think the sports tires are not entirely accurate because in most cars you can't do donuts when in RL you could, so any of the standard tires seems to be more realistic to me.

I can't do donuts with ANY kind of tires in GT4 - is there a simple instruction how to do them? I suppose donuts is not driving around but having the front tires almost stationary and the rear dancing around them in a circle, right?

The only thing I achieve is driving around with my steering locked and smoking the rear tires a bit but I don't think that would qulify as a DONUT

 

[Alfaholic]

I can't do donuts with ANY kind of tires in GT4 - is there a simple instruction how to do them? I suppose donuts is not driving around but having the front tires almost stationary and the rear dancing around them in a circle, right?

The only thing I achieve is driving around with my steering locked and smoking the rear tires a bit but I don't think that would qulify as a DONUT

That's all I've managed. Full lock from standing start, put foot flat in my slightly non standard (570BHP) '69 Corvette Stingray, and the car just goes round and round in circles like I am looking for parking, except both rear wheels are smoking (thanks to the slightly non standard LSD) and I'm bouncing off the rev limiter in 5th gear (I put a slightly non standard gearbox in it too. In fact, I don't think it is a Corvette any more, it just looks like one)

So although the rear wheels were spinning they were just following the front wheels as though I was creeping around in circles with the engine at idle. However, as soon as I unwind a little lock and gain a little momentum, the car starts fishtailing like a frisky salmon. Hence I believe that the programming may require some forward velocity to simulate lateral momentum (oversteer) making donuts impossible at walking pace, but lurid, balanced drifts at faster speeds perfectly possible.

I agree that it is a common fault in all computer driving games to try and drive too fast everywhere, and that the lack of sensation of speed and g-forces and fear means that the average driver probably crashes twenty times a day on a computer game, behaviour which, one would hope, does not reflect that person's real life driving experience.

 

[Woolie Wool]

Almiost all passenger cars are tuned to understeer, which should be obvious because in normal driving (NOT racing), oversteer is FAR more dangerous than understeer.

The disconnect between car and driver in a computer simulation also contributes, because you often go a lot faster, brake a lot harder, and pull a lot more lateral acceleration than you think you do. GT3 and GT4 are a lot better in this regard than GT1 and GT2 were (in the original GT, there was much less sensation of speed, and the cars felt like toys rather than heavy, powerful machines).

 

[coolacrille]

That's all I've managed. Full lock from standing start, put foot flat in my slightly non standard (570BHP) '69 Corvette Stingray, and the car just goes round and round in circles like I am looking for parking, except both rear wheels are smoking (thanks to the slightly non standard LSD) and I'm bouncing off the rev limiter in 5th gear (I put a slightly non standard gearbox in it too. In fact, I don't think it is a Corvette any more, it just looks like one)

So although the rear wheels were spinning they were just following the front wheels as though I was creeping around in circles with the engine at idle. However, as soon as I unwind a little lock and gain a little momentum, the car starts fishtailing like a frisky salmon. Hence I believe that the programming may require some forward velocity to simulate lateral momentum (oversteer) making donuts impossible at walking pace, but lurid, balanced drifts at faster speeds perfectly possible.

I agree that it is a common fault in all computer driving games to try and drive too fast everywhere, and that the lack of sensation of speed and g-forces and fear means that the average driver probably crashes twenty times a day on a computer game, behaviour which, one would hope, does not reflect that person's real life driving experience.

you need to turn ALL driving aids OFF. then try the donuts....

 

[AMG.]

I can't do donuts with ANY kind of tires in GT4

@ RR I couldn't either but check out https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=141 all about drifting (and donuts)
AMG_SLK

 

[MOTRSPRT]

Almiost all passenger cars are tuned to understeer, which should be obvious because in normal driving (NOT racing), oversteer is FAR more dangerous than understeer.
QUOTE]

Are you referring to real world cars or just GT4 cars? Because I much prefer oversteer than understeer in my everyday cars. Both are rear wheel drive, though, and I can induce oversteer pretty easily. But, if either start understeering all steering input to the front wheels is lost. At least with oversteer, I can still steer, correct, and even let off the gas to straighten out the car wildly. I found with my Z that if I tighten up the front sway bars to match the rears all understeer is corrected, and it handles like it's on rails. So, for GT4 sometimes I'll adjust the swaybars accordingly. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[KaffeinE 86]

Almiost all passenger cars are tuned to understeer, which should be obvious because in normal driving (NOT racing), oversteer is FAR more dangerous than understeer.
QUOTE]

Are you referring to real world cars or just GT4 cars? Because I much prefer oversteer than understeer in my everyday cars. Both are rear wheel drive, though, and I can induce oversteer pretty easily. But, if either start understeering all steering input to the front wheels is lost. At least with oversteer, I can still steer, correct, and even let off the gas to straighten out the car wildly. I found with my Z that if I tighten up the front sway bars to match the rears all understeer is corrected, and it handles like it's on rails. So, for GT4 sometimes I'll adjust the swaybars accordingly. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

He meant that understeer is safer for the general public.

 

[niky]

Yup... most modern cars have tons of understeer. I have no idea why people complain about it, as it feels perfectly natural, but then, I've already adapted to the braking problem.

For no more understeer, just get into any old car... they oversteer A LOT.

I can do donuts easy. Just get into any small FF car, crank the wheel and hit reverse from a standing start.

 

[Predwolf]

@ RR I couldn't either but check out https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=141 all about drifting (and donuts)
AMG_SLK

The thing is, take an old charger, Rx-7, supra, Mr-2, etc. Rev it up, drop the clutch, and your tires are spinning like crazy, turn the wheel and your doing donuts.

In GT4, you rev it up, release the brake, and your car just drives really slowly in circles with one tire smoking, even if the car comes with an LSD in RL.

 

[Dark-Hawk]

An Mr2 is going to prone to snap over steer because of it's mid engine setup. You want any car to over steer you should stiffen up the rear and loosen the front.

 

[Alfaholic]

you need to turn ALL driving aids OFF. then try the donuts....

They were off smartass

 

[~Sp33~]

haha, honestly, your trac troll was very crap if you were spinning in fifth gear...lol.......

 

[AP1]

I still get understeer and oversteer mixed up. Is understeer is the car sliding out?

 

[~Sp33~]

understeer is when you see what your gunna smash

 

[Alfaholic]

Almiost all passenger cars are tuned to understeer, which should be obvious because in normal driving (NOT racing), oversteer is FAR more dangerous than understeer.

Firstly, let me say that I agree with your statement, oversteer IS more dangerous, because no matter how long you are experiencing understeer, you can always regain control by simply slowing down, right up until the point where you crash. With oversteer, you can become a passenger facing the wrong way very very quickly and then your immediate future really does lie in the hands of fate.

HOWEVER, my real life experience is rather different. It goes like this: There are three cars I have clocked up large mileages in. One was FR, and with adjustable balance. It would oversteer or understeer to the driver's will. It would lift off oversteer which caught me by surprise a couple of times when I was not concentrating, but I always managed to regain control because the car did not feel out of its depth when sideways. The third car was FF, but also with an adjustable balance. Again understeer or lift off oversteer were both freely available, and again when driving faster than I was concentrating, I got caught out with unintentional oversteer on occasion. Again, because it felt like the car was acting within its design parameters, recovery was easy, and I always regained control. The middle car was FF with safe understeer built in. It resisted oversteer at all costs. I never, ever, experienced unintentional oversteer in this car, so in that respect it was safer. But, this is the only car I have ever actually spun, and I managed it three times, and it was because I was willingly trying to induce oversteer. But because it was so difficult, I really had to provoke it, and when I succeeded, it felt completely out of its depth and just threw in the towel.

The safest car, ironically, was the one I was most likely to crash in. I am sure this would not be the case for the majority of drivers.

Oh, and to get back on topic. Two things I find help quell understeer in GT4 are 1) very very light trail braking just as you turn in, and 2) looking as far around the corner as I can, since this makes me turn sooner and more gently. Oh, and bizarrely, in some FR cars where understeer just seems to build and build even though I am scrubbing off speed, I find it helps to apply throttle. This seems to give the front end more bite even before I get oversteer.....

 

[MRslider]

This is something that has been discussed before, but this is my summary that should help the newcomers, especially the ones who are not the technical heads but rather follow their intuition and feelings.


I was one of those guys who loved the game at first sight but soon got disappointed with it as it seemed that on normal or sports tires, the cars generally understeer too much.

Then I did long, long research on the net regarding this issue.

If you are still angry with the understeer issue, here are some basic ideas which should help you totally change your opinion:

Stock cars generally DO understeer , even FR cars, as it is safer for a normal driver.

As you can't sense the speed (as much as you would do IRL) and the G force and the grip in the game, you tend to drive TOO fast, brake TOO late and steer TOO much in the corner.

All of this generates LOADS of understeer and would do so even in a real car.

Don't slam the brakes as it is much less effective than braking 75 percent or so.

Don't fight the steering wheel - especially if you don't have DFP. My basic DF requires very gentle inputs, otherwise you lock the steering very quickly - understeer immediately.

Drifting is not something that FR or RR or MR cars do naturally, it is something that has to be induced by a special technique by the driver. (Correct me if this idea is wrong, as I am not very good at drifting theory)



So when I applied this totally new style of driving, I quickly got lap times on sports tires that I previously only achieved with race tires. Before I thought the sports tires sucked. Now I see the way I drove sucked.

I beg to diifer on MR cars not drifting.

 

[jammyozzy]

understeer is when you see what your gunna smash

Hehe, that reminds me of something off of Top Gear.
"Understeer is when you turn into a corner, the front wheels loose grip and you fly off the road, hit a tree and die.
Oversteer is when you turn into a corner, the back wheels lose grip and you fly backwards off the road, hit a tree and die.
Now, obviously oversteer is better because you don't see the tree that kills you!"

 

[niky]

The safest car, ironically, was the one I was most likely to crash in. I am sure this would not be the case for the majority of drivers..

Funny. The only car I've ever spun when not inebriated (only happened once, and because I never ever drink, it caught me by surprise) was a big, safe, understeery front-wheel drive.

 

[Alfaholic]

Funny. The only car I've ever spun when not inebriated (only happened once, and because I never ever drink, it caught me by surprise) was a big, safe, understeery front-wheel drive.

Was your spin also preceded by the almost prophetic words "damnit I'm gonna make this reluctant boredom box oversteer even if it kills me." ?

 

[thebindley]

well, my crazy oversteer experiences include a smokeing commodore SS a few utes and spinning my bro's old datto bluebird and drilling the Sh**t out of a kerb (broken axel)

 

[niky]

Was your spin also preceded by the almost prophetic words "damnit I'm gonna make this reluctant boredom box oversteer even if it kills me." ?

Actually, I was so busy being bored, I forgot to look at my speedometer. I went in to a downhill turn about 20 kph too fast, in a front heavy FF car... it was actually fun, if you think about it, but terrifying for all of ten seconds. Once the rear end of an FF barge lets go, it's gone...

Yes, I'm a bad driver, and no, it will never happen again.