Nolan's Dark Knight vs. Burton's Batman

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So I'm writing a paper comparing the 1989 Batman versus The Dark Knight from `08, and I have a lot of respect for the opinions of you guys here at GTP. I don't necessarily need help writing this, and I pretty much have an outline all worked out, but I was just thinking that if you guys had any points-of-view that I haven't looked at it couldn't hurt my writing process. It is a pretty specific paper and largely focused on forms of film, but if you guys know any random trivia or any funky parallels between the two films, please share them with me. 👍

This has been a fun project to work on already and I could potentially share my final draft when it's all said and done if there is interest.
 
I prefer Tim Burton's Batman, probably because it's what I grew up with. The Dark Knight is alright, but in my opinion, overrated.
 
As a long-time Batman fan and comic collector I have to say that while I appreciate Tim Burton's take on the world's greatest detective it is just that - his version - full of all the quirky art-direction and feel of the rest of Burton's cannon. Thus it is not "my" Batman. Christopher Nolan's Batman seems to be fuelled more by the iconic gritty comic book stories and atmosphere which is a good thing. Not only has Nolan kept the comic fans happy, he has not compromised the intelligence of the story or characters as so many Hollywood Superhero movies have. Nolan's Dark Knight single-handedly raised the bar and proved once and for all that there is no need to dumb-down your subject matter. Batman/Bruce Wayne is a compelling character full of psychosis. To treat the character with anything less than full realism (ie: tv-show campiness or rubber-nippled outfits) is a cop-out and shying away from the real meat of what makes Batman so cool.
Whew. Good luck on the paper!
 
Between the two Joker's you mean?

In literal terms, neither of the two are more correct or better portrayed than the other; they're just portraying different parts of the Joker's actual personality. One is a joking, bumbling buffoon that only takes things seriously when the need arises. The other just wants to play mind games, twist people's perception of what's actually going on, and brutally kill people. The only true difference is Nolan's Joker has face paint as more of a design choice as opposed to his skin actually being such a color. Other than though, I would say Nolan is a bit more faithful to the comic book lore as he really sticks to the dual-identity dilemma Bruce has. Burton's, while dark for it's time, works more in the decade it was released in. It wouldn't really fair too well now I'd say, especially with what's going on in the books now.

Ledger has the more maniacal laugh of the two though, while Jackman's is just creepy. :lol:

A random thing you can try and work in is what Jackman has called the "Joker's Curse". Which is what many believed to be the cause of Ledger's unfortunate passing, and whatever it was (I can't remember right now) that Jackman went through.
 
The direction I'm going is really more of using similar characters to tell a similar story, while being two strikingly different films. Not just the two jokers; also the directors' style, the conflicts, the similarites between mob bosses/DA's, and so on. The more I write about, the better.
 
Few actors have more on-screen presence than Jack Nicholson... Ledgers performance was hyped up (for obvious reasons).. Other than that I've no real preference. Bale makes a good Batman, but Keaton was pretty good I thought.

Why no love for Joel Shumachers Batmans... Val Kilmer and George Clooney??? oh yes.. because they were ****
 
The direction I'm going is really more of using similar characters to tell a similar story, while being two strikingly different films. Not just the two jokers; also the directors' style, the conflicts, the similarites between mob bosses/DA's, and so on. The more I write about, the better.

Then, as I've said, Jackman's Joker was the more comedic side of Joker's personality and that reflected just as much upon his actions as it did his henchmen. Any and everything was a joke to him, remember the way he died? With a smile on his face.

Ledger's Joker is the more sadistic side of Joker's personality, weeding out rival mobs one by one and pitting them against one another or having them fight to the death to be apart of Team Joker. Taking events and twisting them toward his advantage to make the general public and those directly involved see things as the ominously dark perceptions he wants them to see - that's how he successfully turned Harvey. That's how he would have been successful in his Catch 22 attempt, and how in the grand scheme of things he did exactly what he set out to do...draw out Batman to the point where he was faced with the dilemma of taking all of the blame and being seen in a bad light in order to spare what had actually occurred. Nolan's Joker is more about the deviously-genius, dark, psychotic, and twisted personality.

And I read too much Batman. :lol:


Few actors have more on-screen presence than Jack Nicholson... Ledgers performance was hyped up (for obvious reasons).. Other than that I've no real preference. Bale makes a good Batman, but Keaton was pretty good I thought.

Why no love for Joel Shumachers Batmans... Val Kilmer and George Clooney??? oh yes.. because they were ****

Batman Forever was always fine in my book; Carrey was spot on for Riddler, and Jones' tenacity made for a great Two-Face at the time, and Kilmer was a good Batman and Bruce Wayne. The only real problem I had with BF was the media over-reacting to the rubber nipples and the ass shots - they were comedic to me and I took no offense to them at all. Batman & Robin however, believe me when I say this, that movie had a lot more problems than Clooney, who quite frankly, was a great Bruce Wayne but the cowl just wasn't for him.

Like I said though, a lot more problems than Clooney.
 
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Yeah, writing about the two Jokers will be easy. The anarchist/terrorist of Health Ledger versus the greedy mafia-type Jack Nicholson. Burton's is more of an archetype-driven shoot-em-up while Nolan goes into choices and the human condition. Brains versus brawn, what is scarier?

I'll definitely use up half a page talking about the "you either die a hero or live long enough see yourself become the villain" line from Harvey Dent that was later repeated by Bruce Wayne.
 
In my opinion, while you do have to deal with the differing styles of Christopher Nolan and Tim Burton, you also have to realize that contextually, Batman is a character that has been all over the radar since his inception.

The Batman of the '30s and '40s was far more gritty than the character of the '60s and '70s that most people grew up with. In that sense, Burton's Batman was a more serious look at a less-serious Batman, directly influenced by the Silver Age comics and (fortunately or unfortunately) the original film and television program. Burton was happy to allow the characters to be a little campy, but you could see the gritty look and feel that the comics had been taking bubbling under the surface. That really became evident with Batman Returns, which in my opinion, was the film's downfall. That is not to say that the film was bad, but more or less, that people (in general) did not want to deal with a gritty version of Batman with serious problems. The Schmacher films were a reaction against that.

By comparison to Burton, Nolan had the advantage of time, and the ability to stand upon the writing from Miller, Moore, Loeb and even the production work by Bruce Timm. The '80s and '90s fleshed out Batman as a human being, and gave each character a very distinct reason for being who they are, and doing what they do. The Joker went off the deep-end compared to what he was in the '60s and '70s, and with characters like Hush, Bane and Zsasz, Batman was brought down to a very complicated, brutal reality. In my opinion, that kind of evolution is where Batman belongs, dealing with the cereal serial killers, psychopaths, mass-murderers and terrorists... Things we deal with in real life. It really is a matter of thinking of things just as Nolan did when making Batman... If someone really did want to go out and do this, what would be the ramifications? How would people handle it? What would come of it? Part of it as well has been that the sensibilities of Americans have changed, and that our sensibilities are drastically different as well. The violet, senseless acts of The Joker in TDK are far more believable than what they would have been 20 years ago in Batman.

I feel as though Batman is a character that comes around every once in a while to accurately reflect the way people were feeling, or wanted to feel. The Batman of the '30s and '40s fought against organized crime and corruption that eroded our society so much during the Great Depression. The Batman of the '60s and '70s was an escape from the horrors of Vietnam and and the social conflicts at home. The Batman of the '80s was a response to the Regan optimism, and the threat of nuclear war. The '90s and '00s have been a nexus of events for Batman, and in the end, you get to pick your poison. Between the films, comic books, television programs, and even the videogames... You see a dramatically different character that deals with similar issues in completely different ways. While my version of Batman was greatly shaped by Bruce Timm's Batman: The Animated Series, I feel as though Batman: Arkham Asylum and TDK are the best representations of a "modern," "realistic" Batman.
 
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I do that every time. EVERY TIME.

Let's talk about Calendar Man...

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Oh, I remember when I heard a little rumor that Nolan was going to include him in The Dark Knight Rises... Then we realized how ridiculous that was.
 
Writing about the evolution of Batman over time would, could, and should be a book. This is a Motion Picture studies course so I'm writing less about Batman and more about the specific movies. Christopher Nolan, Tim Burton, and their respective direction are the focus of this paper. Like I said, it's coming out like "Tim Burton used the Joker to do X, while Christopher Nolan had the Joker do Y. This affected the audience like blah blah blah"

My writing is much more sophisticated than that, I promise. :D
 
Why no love for Joel Shumachers Batmans... Val Kilmer and George Clooney??? oh yes.. because they were ****

Actually I'm going to go against the grain here and say I enjoyed the Shumacher era Batman because its what I grew up with (that and repeats of the 1966 TV series). I also liked the fact he bothered to include Robin and do the character justice with an origin story as well as making the character and red suit badass (unlike cough nolan cough).

Yes they were slightly silly but I like lighthearted Batman as much as dark Batman. I also I was a kid then so it was perfectly targeted to that age group.

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Robin.
 
Thanks for all of your feedback. I'm about two pages into my writing so far, and I have alot of momentum going towards completion. It's kind of gone like "In Tim Burton's Batman, we met the joker when he..." and a paragraph explaining the significance, then a paragraph about how the Joker came about in Nolan's version. I'm thinking that this will ultimately boil up to how much different they are at the end. Like I said earlier, Nicholson was the Mobster, and Ledger was the Anarchist.
 
Actually I'm going to go against the grain here and say I enjoyed the Shumacher era Batman because its what I grew up with (that and repeats of the 1966 TV series). I also liked the fact he bothered to include Robin and do the character justice with an origin story as well as making the character and red suit badass (unlike cough nolan cough).

Yes they were slightly silly but I like lighthearted Batman as much as dark Batman. I also I was a kid then so it was perfectly targeted to that age group.

I'm with you, I enjoyed Schumacher's Batman movies. I need to buy them on DVD! :sly: I haven't seen them in years.
 
I turned it in last night. Gotta admit, I kinda started to mail it in towards the end. It's about 6 pages or so.

FTR: I liked The Dark Knight more.
 
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