North American International Auto Show 2008 - Industry Day Preview (dial-up warning)

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Joey D

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So my best friend Jimmy works as an IT guy for a company called the Schaeffler Group (LUK INA FAG) which is a supplier for various automotive companies. Knowing I enjoy cars he was able to snag two tickets to the industry preview with me being his "client" for the day. This involved a trip to the company's suite and the consumption of large quantities of gourmet prepared food.

Anyways on to the car show itself, which was a bit of a let down compared to previous shows but still being able to view these cars before the general public got to was a real treat and I am very appreciative that I was able to attend something many people only wish they could.

Now before I begin the massive onslaught of photos I did actually want to prove that I was there and did not have someone just snap photos for me.

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On to the cars. I do have larger images of all these pictures if you would like them but be warned the lighting balance inside Cobo Hall did not agree with my little Olympus point and shoot camera. Some of the photos are a bit blurry at higher resolutions but I will still be happy to get them to you. They are organized in how I took them as well.

Audi

Audi only really had one car I just had to see, that being the new R8 TDI which was truly an amazing site to see. This is a step in the right direction and the way I think supercars or cars in general for that matter should be going. Something that gives you 0-60 in 4.3 seconds and 23mpg is something I want in my life.

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There was also the sporty model of the TT which right now slips my mind on the name. Looked cool though.

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BMW

Now on to BWM, where I fell in love with the M3 coupe and the slightly cheaper 335xi. The 1-series wasn't really my style and I found it to be a bit uncomfortable inside, however I can see it taking off to some extent here in America.

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Mini

Ok, it's obvious that I wanted to see this exhibit in a big way so I won't go on about it. The Clubman is quite cool inside and I wouldn't mind owning one since it has decent space in it. Granted it is fairly ugly but then again the Cooper isn't the best looking vehicle in the world either. I got talking to one of the reps there about it and when he found out I was a Mini owner he slipped me a press kit which included a DVD on the vehicle. Oh and I want need a JCW (John Cooper Works) Mini Cooper S.

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Volkswagen

I was disappointed in VW this year, they almost always have something cool but it was just kind of 'meh' there this year, not even an R32 in which I could sit in. They did have the Jetta TDI there which was kind of cool and some weird looking Passat.

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Subaru

The new Forester didn't really even catch my eye and I forgot it was even there so I didn't get any photos of it...I know I fail. The STI wasn't anything to write home about either and the base Imperza had one of the cheapest feeling interiors in the history of modern cars. I thought I was going to put my finger through the dash the plastic was so cheap. The hood scoop is also ridiculous on the WRX :lol:.

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Nissan

Ok I'll admit it now, the GT-R does look better in person even though I still feel it is quite over-rated it is still rather cool to see. All the other Nissan's were just kind of un-inspiring save for the Nismo edition 350Z which had a laughably small short shifter in it and seats that broke my back. I did shoot quite a few GT-R pictures knowing people would want to see them.

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Scion

I didn't have a real desire to look through Scion but this caught my eye because it was so unbelievably...uhhh what the hell is the word I'm looking for here?

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Toyota

Toyota didn't make the showing they typically do at the NAIAS which was odd since they are slated to take down GM this year as #1 in the world as far as automotive companies are concerned. The Venza was sort of neat for a crossover and the Tundra is still one of the ugliest vehicles on the market. Even their concept hybrid truck was pretty less than thrilling.

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Lexus

Lexus held probably my favourite car at the show, the LS-F roadster was just stunning and I just wanted to stare at it all day. If they make it and it sounds like they will according to the buzz on the auto media websites I will be waiting for the day I catch a glimpse of one on the road. I do not know what on earth it is that makes me love this car so much but it's just everything I look for in a design I guess. The IS-F was pretty sweet and I would probably take it over a CTS-V but not an M3 (the prices were quite close). Also the LS Hybrid was an amazing car, I just sat in back to see how it was and it was honestly the quietest car I have ever been in, I was really impressed with it...even the headlamps were cool looking.

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Chevy

Chevy didn't have much I really cared about this year, the ZR1 was even a let down. After the amount of press that thing got I expected to walk over to it and witness what the second coming of Christ would be like, all I got was a Z06 with some fancy bits on it and giant engine. This is not to discount the performance of the car, I'm just saying it didn't look like much. Chevy's trio of small cars were kind of cool but they are just concepts so I'm not holding my breath on how they will look.

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Cadillac

The CTS-V was another let down, it looked too much like "thug nation" and not refined like the M3 or to a lesser extent Lexus IS-F does. As Jay-Z says in one of his songs "I'm old enough to know what right car to buy but grown enough not to put rims on it". If I was a forty-something year old looking for a fast sedan the CTS-V just wouldn't do it for me. The coupe on the other hand was a brilliant looking vehicle and if GM doesn't make that I might just have to ask the conductor of the fail train to make a stop on the GM tech centre.

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Saturn

God this was just painful, the Astra was a huge let down and isn't much better than the Ion it replaces. I had huge hopes for this car because I though hey GM is bringing us an Opel/Vauxhall and Europeans wouldn't tolerate shoddiness with their vehicles...guess I was wrong. It felt cheap and unfinished on the inside and the boot was oddly shaped which would make it difficult to put things in there. I folded myself up and got in there and failed to see how you could even manage a normal sized box (this was the 3-door). The smaller Cooper had more space. They had a fairly cool concept car though.

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Saab

Nothing really to say here.

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Opel

They had the Corsa OPC that lapped the Ring in the fastest time for a supermini...I had to ask myself why the US doesn't get it but I suppose since it was at the NAIAS then GM must be considering it.

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Pontiac

The Pontiac G8 was another huge let down as far as cars go, I mean what in the hell possessed GM to build a great looking with a sound engine at the right price and forget we like interiors that don't fail. If you are going to do something do it right don't half ass it.

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Jaguar

Just had a look at the XF and I still do not like it and it still looks like a Chrysler product.

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Volvo

I really do like the C30 and for all intensive purposes it's the grown up, business man's Mini Cooper as far as I can tell. The coolest thing was that the controls for the sat nav where on the backside of the steering wheel making it easy to use and even though everything was in Swedish on the sat nav I figured it out in about 30 seconds...easiest sat nav system I have ever used.

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Mazda

They had that weird looking supercar/racecar thing there that I am unable to think of the name off the top of my head. I was impressed at the design even though it was quite ugly. The new RX-8 is alright though.

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Ford

Ford is one American company that "get's it" they are making an efforf to build products that don't feel really cheap and the new F-150 is a pretty awesome truck both inside and out. I'm typically not a huge Ford fan but they have improved by leaps and bounds, you can tell they are in it to win it.

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Honda/Acura

The coolest Honda was the CR-Z concept car, which if they were to build I would have to think about getting one. Kind of made me miss the older CRX from the 90's that so many people turn into go-karts now.

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Fisker

This is was sort of cool although I'm still convinced it looked rather phallic in nature as well as too long for its frame.

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Lamborghini

The cars were cool but they never make a huge showing at the NAIAS, although they had some nice models posing with the cars.

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Ferrari

Another one of those companies that do not make a huge showing here.

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Mitsubishi

The only really cool thing here was the old school rally cars, the Ralliart Lancer was just meh since it looked like every other Lancer and I was unable to pop the hood.

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Suzuki

Nothing worth talking about, but here are some photos (hey it's been an hour, I'm getting tired). I guess there little outdoor truck thing was neat, although the concept probably will never make it. It would make a decent Gator like vehicle though for hunting and what not.

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Dodge/Chrysler

The new Dodge Ram is quite ugly and looks like something Toyota would create and probably will have the same amount of problems. I'm not really fond of the Chrysler group but I still had to get some pictures...and the Caravan R/T is worthless in every since of the word since it does not have different engine in it. I asked a representative and he said there are no plans to make it.

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Misc. Stuff

The 250mpg sedan. We got a chance to talk with the designers and it was pretty cool to see how it all worked, it was a new form of plug in hybrid that could be applied to any hybrid car.

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I don't know what the hell these are but they were "fun cars" to say the least.

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Louis Venton award winning Alfa Romero.

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Interesting People

Michigan Senator Debbie Stabenow - D

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West Coast Choppers owner and all around badass Jesse James

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Great pictures! That Mazda Furai makes me need new pants everytime I see it....
 
VW: It is surprising they don't have anything. As for the R32, it doesn't surprise me that they didn't have any to show off. The interior is identical to the GTI aside from some extra aluminum paneling and we already know about the exterior.

That LF-A looks sweet though:tup:

I'm really interested in getting to the Astra and G8 to see just how bad these cars are. I'm really surprised.

That Ralliart doesn't look half bad either. From all I've heard, it looks like a great car.

ACR Viper aside, that Dodge/Chrysler exhibit is full of UGLY. That Avenger, Ram, Van and others are just terrible:yuck:.

Great pictures though:tup:! How was it being there on press day?
 
Thanks guys!

Being there on press day was awesome, far fewer people and the people that were there respected you taking photos and what not.
 
A good review of the show!

The feeling I keep getting is that GM had the most to show and the most to lose, and now that you've made your peace on the Astra and G8 (Commodore), I'm really interested to see what I think about them. I wasn't expecting much on the Astra, but the G8? Yeah, my standards are really high...

Chrysler just looks like they're giving up, all of their "concepts" look like they're straight out of 1999. Nice one guys!

===

I'm looking forward to Chicago (assuming for certain that I will be able to go), as I'd love to compare photos and opinions!
 
The feeling I keep getting is that GM had the most to show and the most to lose, and now that you've made your peace on the Astra and G8 (Commodore), I'm really interested to see what I think about them. I wasn't expecting much on the Astra, but the G8? Yeah, my standards are really high...

Looking for something good, it shows that the cars we get here are mroe or less on par with the rest of the world, and it reaffirms the Germans' lead. If GM can bring a car over here that has no problem selling in other markets, it seems that quality shouldn't be too much of an issue.
 
Hot off the press Joey, nice one 👍

I thought the new Camaro would be at the show?
 
The ACR Viper wasn't very impressive, it would sort of in the same slot as the ZR-1, cool in a way that it has awesome performance but it looks like and over-done pseudo racecar. The Viper programme is probably canceled anyways due to Chrysler needing to revamp the Sebring (see Autoblog). I don't really foresee this thing going into production and if it does there will be very limited numbers.

As for the Camaro, they had Bumblebee there but I think I am the only person in Michigan who is already tired of the car. It seems every week there is a story or photo of it in the auto section of the Detroit News. I agree it's a cool car and if GM did it right then they will have something that will sell quite well, but I'm sick of seeing it and I haven't even really seen it on the road yet in something other then camo.

=========

Now that I have had some sleep I will give some more thoughts on the show and some of the cars that were there.

Show Itself

The show itself was smaller then I ever remember it being and I was able to walk around it faster then I had expected. There wasn't to many "oh wow" moments either like there had been in past years not any gimmicky things that made me want to wait in line to experience something. The only "game" I played was at the Mini display where you say in a go-kart like thing and drove a JCW Mini Cooper S on the screen. It was cool but they were really the only ones that did anything like that.

Cobo is an awful place to hold a show as well, hell Detroit is pretty bad itself. There is very limited parking (I had a VIP pass to get onto the roof), the roads in the area are in very poor condition, the is virtually no public transport system, no hotels that you want to stay in, and Cobo is just way to small to really have anything "epic" in it. It's really no wondering companies like Porsche, Aston Martin, and Lotus do not show up and the other companies that do come do not really bring their A game save for the big American three.

Most Impressive

I wanted to talk more about this car and it's sister Saturn Vue from the AFS Trinity Power Corporation:

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I got a chance to talk to Don Bender, the CTO of AFS, while at the show and this guy was genuinely interested in show casing the car for me which is really a first for me. This technology seemed very easy to implement and if GM picked up on this they would sell these things hands over fist. The VUE they modified got a tested 150mpg, could run up to 87mph on full hybrid mode, and would do 0-60 in 6.9 seconds...no sports car but that it pretty peppy considering the Prius takes 10 seconds to hit the same speed.

I'm not typically wowed by "green" vehicles but something like this that has been tested and shown to work gets my seal of approval. Most of you also know how I feel about hybrids being nothing more then giant weener vehicles that make you spend more on the car then you need to but AFS has already proved me wrong on that:

AFS
Extreme Hybrid technology in commercial production is expected to cost around $8,700 more than current, gas-only SUV’s. “However, if the price of gasoline is, say, $2.85 per gallon, XH™ gasoline cost savings could repay the purchase price premium in 3.5 years,” Furia said. “The higher fuel prices go, of course, the faster the premium is repaid. At a price of $5 a gallon, which is the price already being paid in parts of the world, the premium could be repaid in less than three years and the savings would continue to grow. Tax and other incentives could accelerate this process.”

If GM was smart they would get this and put it in all their hybrid models (I only say this because they used a Saturn VUE and was appears to be a modified Oldsmobile). If they don't pick up on it someone else should.

If you are interest please check out their website: http://www.afstrinity.com

Biggest Disappointment

I still do like General Motors but they have to step up the quality of materials they use along with the fit and finish of their interior. As I've said I was really really really disappointed in both the Astra and the G8. As some of you know I was considering an Astra while I was looking for a new car and I can honestly say I'm glad I didn't go there. For the same price as the Cooper it gets worst fuel mileage, feels like it has less room, and feels cheaper inside. The G8 gave me the same impression, the interior looked great but felt like crap. Maybe I set the bar to high but if I was in the market for a $35,000 sedan I'd get something else over the G8 and I did not want it to be that way. I wanted to sit in it and go "damn I have to have this". That was ok though, the Impreza gave me the same impressions.

I'm also still surprised Chrysler can call itself an automotive company any more, they are failures in every way possible with their designs. The Journey felt small and cramped, the new Ram reminded me of the Tundra (not a good thing), and the rest of their designs are growing stale (PT Crusier, 300C, Charger). Also the swivel seats on the Town & Country are awful. I attempted to spin them around to see how they were, but apparently the front seats have to be pushed all the way forward in order to spin the centre row around (how you would do this while driving is beyond me). Jimmy, my buddy I went with, proceed to push the front seat forward and with that the centre row seat swung around and knocked me upside the head while then proceeding to fall down in the stow-and-go position. I found this to be a rather poor design and somewhat complicated as well as unsafe. American car companies need to quit half ass things and build quality. They have the designs, they have the engines, now just make the thing work.

I know this is going to sound like "I have given up on life" but I really did check out all the mini-vans just to make sure I wasn't being overly hard on the Chrysler ones. The best van I sat it was the Mazda 5, it was the perfect size, quite comfortable, had a decent engine, and didn't look like ass. I just hope they do a Mazdaspeed version of it :D.

Closing Thoughts

I do not like where the auto industry is heading for the most part, they are still to concerned about horsepower and engine size and not concerned enough about gas mileage, quality of materials, and style. Could I do better? Who knows, pay my $65,000 a year and we will see.
 
The ACR Viper wasn't very impressive, it would sort of in the same slot as the ZR-1, cool in a way that it has awesome performance but it looks like and over-done pseudo racecar. The Viper programme is probably canceled anyways due to Chrysler needing to revamp the Sebring (see Autoblog). I don't really foresee this thing going into production and if it does there will be very limited numbers.

Is the program officially cancelled? I had heard that they were considering it but thought nothing came of it. Either way, it shows that Chrysler iis really in some serious trouble.

As for the Camaro, they had Bumblebee there but I think I am the only person in Michigan who is already tired of the car. It seems every week there is a story or photo of it in the auto section of the Detroit News. I agree it's a cool car and if GM did it right then they will have something that will sell quite well, but I'm sick of seeing it and I haven't even really seen it on the road yet in something other then camo.

Was it an impressive car aside from being sick of it? Is this car going to wind up being a huge disappointment like the Astra and G8 because GM created all this hype when it really isn't anything good?

Show Itself

The Seattle show is by the stadiums in the middle of the industrial district with only street parking or expensive lots and potholes you could lose a truck in. It seems that is a theme of auto shows. As for it being smaller, that is a shame. It shows that the local 3 are going downhill. Maybe it'll turn around in the next few years.

Most Impressive

:scared:. If an old hybrid is the highlight of NAIAS, I guess it means Detroit is really in trouble. That said, it doesn't sound like a bad technology. Is the 150 mpg combined or highway? That would be insane street mileage. And the 0-60 time isn't bad at all. That's all my car can do, and it feels very fast.

Biggest Disappointment

Seems the show's theme is showing off Detroit's problems from the way you talk about it. I'm not a Chrysler fan so I'm feeling kinda meh about them being in trouble. They dug their own hole. I didn't think the Mazda5 was anything great when I looked at it a few years back. It has an OK exterior, but I remember there being ZERO legroom in the middle row with respectable adult sitting in the front. And I literally mean zero, as in the back of the fronts were touching the middle row seats.
 
Is the program officially cancelled? I had heard that they were considering it but thought nothing came of it. Either way, it shows that Chrysler iis really in some serious trouble.

Officially I am not sure, I'm just going on what Autoblog said this past week on the subject.

Was it an impressive car aside from being sick of it? Is this car going to wind up being a huge disappointment like the Astra and G8 because GM created all this hype when it really isn't anything good?

I couldn't sit in it so I can't really say, the exterior looks decently cool. I really hope they don't make this can an epic fail, I want so badly for a sweet sports car.

:scared:. If an old hybrid is the highlight of NAIAS, I guess it means Detroit is really in trouble. That said, it doesn't sound like a bad technology. Is the 150 mpg combined or highway? That would be insane street mileage. And the 0-60 time isn't bad at all. That's all my car can do, and it feels very fast.

The technology is brand new even if the car isn't, they just made their world debut with it at the NAIAS. The 150mpg is what an average person would get under normal driving conditions, so a mix of city and highway. The CTO also told me the tested it with the A/C on, the windows down, and the vehicle loaded with 5 people and there was not much of a mileage difference. I was just impressed that a small independent company did something the larger auto companies should have done from the beginning of hybrids.
 
I couldn't sit in it so I can't really say, the exterior looks decently cool. I really hope they don't make this can an epic fail, I want so badly for a sweet sports car.

It will be interesting to see how the car will shape up against the Camaro. They both have great exteriors and decent amounts of power. They both also come from companies that fail at refinement. Maybe this showdown will show us who is capable of making a decent interior.

The technology is brand new even if the car isn't, they just made their world debut with it at the NAIAS. The 150mpg is what an average person would get under normal driving conditions, so a mix of city and highway. The CTO also told me the tested it with the A/C on, the windows down, and the vehicle loaded with 5 people and there was not much of a mileage difference. I was just impressed that a small independent company did something the larger auto companies should have done from the beginning of hybrids.

That is impressive. It seems like the smaller, private companies are going to be the ones doing the innovating. GM and Toyota don't need to make hybrids like this because they control the market so the public will buy anything they put out. They won't need to put nearly as much effort in to keep swimming.
 
The ACR Viper wasn't very impressive, it would sort of in the same slot as the ZR-1, cool in a way that it has awesome performance but it looks like and over-done pseudo racecar. The Viper programme is probably canceled anyways due to Chrysler needing to revamp the Sebring (see Autoblog). I don't really foresee this thing going into production and if it does there will be very limited numbers.
The ACR is actually slated for production this year.
Is the program officially cancelled? I had heard that they were considering it but thought nothing came of it. Either way, it shows that Chrysler iis really in some serious trouble.
I haven't seen AutoBlog's story yet, but every other source I've read is only assumption, and amazingly, none of them happened to have any kind of word/quote from Chrysler or a rep. that it was possible.
 
Meh I say scrap it, I don't believe Dodge sells many of them anyways. The Sebring is a car that can make them money so I understand why they would want to get it looking good and not be a complete failure.
 
But how many Sebring's do you think the Chrysler group sells? All I'm saying is they are going to turn a greater profit on a redesigned, non-failure Sebring then on a 600hp roadster that really doesn't stack up as well against other high end cars. I'm not saying the Viper is a bad car, granted I do not really care for it because I think a V10 that large is un-needed, but that is besides the point, I'm just saying Dodge probably doesn't really make any money off of it and God knows that's what they need right now.
 
But how many Sebring's do you think the Chrysler group sells? All I'm saying is they are going to turn a greater profit on a redesigned, non-failure Sebring then on a 600hp roadster that really doesn't stack up as well against other high end cars. I'm not saying the Viper is a bad car, granted I do not really care for it because I think a V10 that large is un-needed, but that is besides the point, I'm just saying Dodge probably doesn't really make any money off of it and God knows that's what they need right now.
There's a better way for Chrysler to make money off the Sebring than scraping off a model that brings in good money. It's not like Chrysler is deeply affected if the Viper doesn't bring in much dough anyways.

Cerebus needs to wait and see how the Coupe goes for the 2008 year. 2006 was it's first year to really stretch its legs and sold 1,117 units compared to the Conv.'s 752.
 
Is it going to cost money to keep the current Viper running for a while? Unless the car is costing them money to build, why ditch it? Surely the car they currently have could run a few more years.

As for the Sebring, they are probably going to want to make as many fleet sales as possible. They could probably make quite a bit of profit off the sheer volume of fleet sales. Other than that, I hope they can match the Japanese in terms of build quality, or whatever is selling those cars.

Oh and maybe they should try better interior materials.

But if the Sebring is going to be what saves them, I would surely say they need to focus all of their attention on making that a rock solid car. I do see the Charger/300 as possible helping roles too.
 
The Sebring, first and formost, needs to get off the goddamn (Edit: Lancer) platform, as does the Avenger, or, at the very least, they need to beg and plead with Mitsubishi for MiVEC motors (3.8 especially) and tear into that interior, making it at least on par with the Galant, preferably better, especially for the Chrysler. Clean styling and close the body gaps on both vehicles, and we might see something better in the short term. In the long term, develop something K-Car in importance.

EDIT: While you're at it, see if Mitsu will let you raid the Ralliart/Evo Parts Bin some.

Do the same with Caliber, Kill the Compass. Caliber could also do with a Lancer Ralliart drivetrain hooked to the SRT-4 Motor: people would pay the price hike. if there was one. I mean, come on: the engine's in the same family, the chassis, too...

After this finish that damn LY platform, or something. Hell, I'd be happy if you stole Hyundai's Genesis platform out from under them. The Charger and 300C were among the best cars in America at one time, but if you keep on marching with them, it'll end up like that Baby-Eater at Ford...

Remember to take out a few SUVs, Nitro and Aspen in particular, Oh, yes: Give us the VW diesels.
 
Isn't the Sebring and Avenger on the Lancer GS/JS platform?
 
Meh I say scrap it, I don't believe Dodge sells many of them anyways. The Sebring is a car that can make them money so I understand why they would want to get it looking good and not be a complete failure.
They don't sell many Vipers, but it's the most profitable car they sell, relatively. It's also the most recognizable, the coolest, and everyones favorite. I'd rather them sell only the Viper, rather than everything else.
 
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