Nurburgring help

  • Thread starter exDriver
  • 27 comments
  • 1,756 views
E

exDriver

9
I'm having trouble dealing with the bumpy road conditions on the Nurburgring track. When approaching speeds of 130mph the bikes starts to jitter but not so much that I can't control. Its when I get to 150mph that I start having trouble keeping the bike stable. I mainly use a Ninja 600r and Ducati 999r. Can anyone suggest a suspension setup?
 
I'm not sure, but if you lower the preload for the front in the suspension setup, I would think that should help. It essentially drops the front of the bike down and leaves the rear up, which should increase downforce on the front. It works for understeer, so hopefully it works for this also. I can't say for sure, as I havn't had much time to hit the 'Ring yet.

Hope that helps. Let me know.
 
first - bikes dont make downforce, adjusting the preload adjust weight distrubtion.

second - ive been suggested before to keep spring rate and rebound harder and having a lower bound rate helps. and has been working for me since ive dropped from a 7.10 to 7.04-05s for litre/8 hour bikes and 7.10-11 range for 600cc rm's

on the long back straight, stay towards the middle of the track since the right side is way too bumpy.

btw - if youre having troubles at 130mph, just wait until you hit 220mph ;)
 
Yeah, I've found the Nurburger onion-Ring very challenging on the powerful bikes. The bumps seem to go past alright by laying off the throttle a little, and keeping the bike just a little more upright than what you'd prefer for a good line, just over the worst bits. I know this is the wimp's way out of trouble (as opposed to pushing right on the limit and hoping for the best), but I've been averaging 4 spectacular chrashes each lap, and I don't want to risk coming off the bike.

I've also found that leaning back a little when you go down into a valley (where the bike can throw you off easily) helps you stay in control (as a preventative measure for when the front end loads up too much when you hit the bottom of of the valley).

Leaning back a little also seems to keep the bike straighter on the big straight – it makes the front forks wobble more, but the front end seems to have MUCH less affect on the bike's (in)stability, and you don't get buffetted around as much, even though the front end is having a party all to itself.

Over jumps? Keep the bike straight, stay in the middle of the road (over the scariest jumps) so if something unpredictable happens you have a good chance of getting out of trouble. Don't overdo the speed as you usually need lots of braking distance when you land for the next corner.

Also, the best way to land a bike off a jump is rear wheel first, but only JUST first. Like Motocross riding, revving the engine and leaning back when in mid-air raises the front end and lowers the rear end, and slowing down the rear wheel and leaning forward lowers the front end. You CAN choose which wheel hits the ground first compared to the other.

I like laying off the throttle just before leaving the ground to keep the bike more in control and going straight and true. I'm trying to have no possibility of crashing out, but you can just nail it hard and hope for the best if you're game, as some of the time you magically make it through at crazy speeds.

The Nur-burger onion-Ring North-shleeve is certainly as challenging to ride on a fast bike as it is to spell correctly! Good luck guys!

James
 
Jumpon a stock Honda CBR1000RR road bike,and rag it round, it handleslike a 600 but goes like stink. i know itdoesn't answer your question, but it will give you a feeling of a fast bike thats nimble, and able to tacklethe nurb,with NO crases,on your first ride, and do a low 8:30:** time... not bad aye?
 
You guys seem to know quite a bit about bike setups. Just wanted to let you know that i am trying to get a thread going that addresses bike tuning, as there has been plenty said about riding style, but nothing much about actual suspension setup. I am hoping to be able to write a guide about it, but I don't actually know much about it, so any input into this thread would be greatly appreciated.
 
I'm one of the many that is yet to master the ring without having come off at least a handful of times. I think I’m a little too gun hoe around the corners though, as I have a tendency to drop it a gear, crouch down and let it rip, all the while hoping to god that I don’t overshoot the corner and end up in the fence.

I think ES has put it best with that tuning tip. Mind you those are pretty powerful bikes you’re using. Maybe give it a few goes on some light weight bikes to really get the feel of the bumps in the road, then you might even learn the spots that can be avoided. ;)

Making the switch from GT4 to TT, you certainly notice the bumps a whole lot more.
 
For my riding style, the best way I've found so far is to frequently untuck to manage the stability of the bike. Using body lean (probably rings true for other riding forms as well), un-tucking seems to let the rider balance the bike a little more and better cope with the combination of bumps and loss of traction. Practice riding with a very conservative tucking strategy (un-tucked most of the time) and gradually work up to the optimal balance.
 
I think the big thing for me, is that mentally, I'm still telling myself that I can do things that the Minolta can do and none of the bikes can.

For instance on one sweeping left bend last night I got lucky and got through it on the Trick Star pinned in sixth at 180mph. Popped in GT4, and cruised through same corner in the Minolta at 175mph. I can't expect the bikes to get away with things that a finely tuned high downforce car just gets away with.

But it ain't half fun trying :scared:
 
I used to have this problem, I seem to of figured it out on my own. Anyways, some parts of the track are flat, and some are just bumpy, and others have a bow shape to it, making the left or right side edges smoother than the middle.

The backstrsetch can be tough to tame, but if you want to keep the bike stable up through 220 mph, then stay almost all the way to the left. Once you come up to the hill move to the middle, then untuck while going straight, and then dive back into the left hander. I ussualy catch myself doing 185 mph at least around that corner. I bounce around of course, but my line doesnt change and the bike has no problems righting itself of the bumbps.
 
I haven't run the racing bikes, but I've logged many laps in the street 600cc and litre sportbikes on the 'Ring, and I've found lowering the bound to be the most helpful adjustment. I lower the rebound too, but I see someone posted that keeping it firm works for them. I'd have to experiment with that. I drop the bound all the way to 1 front and rear, and the rebound to two.

Some bumpy sections (like before mutkurve and after pflantzgarten) you just have to slow down and use throttle control to stabilize the bike. The section that gives me the most fits is at the end of Dottinger Hohe (last long straight), but the advice already given is spot on (stay left then drift to the middle). It never fails that if I've logged a fast clean lap I screw up there, but if I've wrecked earlier in the lap then I get through D-H fine. That's the 'Ring for you.

I'd say that logging a perfect lap on the 'Ring is one of the most difficult challenges in all of video gaming, especially in Tourist Trophy. Currently I'm using the Aprillia RSV 1000R Factory, pro controller setting, with street tires, stock exhaust, top speed set to 198 (or so), default preload, bound of 1, rebound of 2 (front and rear), and my goal is to log a sub 7'40 lap. I've come close many times, but either screw up (as mentioned above) or lose too much time in order to make the lap clean (ie a 7'46 instead of the desired sub 7'40).

I post all of that wondering if anyone else would take up where I've failed, and see if that bike (with street tires and stock exhaust, but set the gear and suspension however you like) really can be the sub 7'40 machine I think it is. If you try it, I thank you in advance for your time.
 
orpheusd0wn
I haven't run the racing bikes, but I've logged many laps in the street 600cc and litre sportbikes on the 'Ring, and I've found lowering the bound to be the most helpful adjustment. I lower the rebound too, but I see someone posted that keeping it firm works for them. I'd have to experiment with that. I drop the bound all the way to 1 front and rear, and the rebound to two.

Some bumpy sections (like before mutkurve and after pflantzgarten) you just have to slow down and use throttle control to stabilize the bike. The section that gives me the most fits is at the end of Dottinger Hohe (last long straight), but the advice already given is spot on (stay left then drift to the middle). It never fails that if I've logged a fast clean lap I screw up there, but if I've wrecked earlier in the lap then I get through D-H fine. That's the 'Ring for you.

I'd say that logging a perfect lap on the 'Ring is one of the most difficult challenges in all of video gaming, especially in Tourist Trophy. Currently I'm using the Aprillia RSV 1000R Factory, pro controller setting, with street tires, stock exhaust, top speed set to 198 (or so), default preload, bound of 1, rebound of 2 (front and rear), and my goal is to log a sub 7'40 lap. I've come close many times, but either screw up (as mentioned above) or lose too much time in order to make the lap clean (ie a 7'46 instead of the desired sub 7'40).

I post all of that wondering if anyone else would take up where I've failed, and see if that bike (with street tires and stock exhaust, but set the gear and suspension however you like) really can be the sub 7'40 machine I think it is. If you try it, I thank you in advance for your time.
Click to expand...


Your speaking of a perfect lap, well I have one here for you. No off's occured and I tried to get all of the corner entrances and exits dead on. If you want, go to the second link to download my replay lap onto your memory card, so you can take a closer look, it's only U.S. version, thought. (I did different versions, the differences are the songs):

1: http://media.putfile.com/Tiger-1000RR-music

2: http://www.ttbikesim.com/community/single.php/98
 
Only you know if a lap was perfect, but I will say, that's an impressive video. Very well done.

The best example I can give of the difference between clean, good, and perfect is the IB-2 license test on GT4 in the Mercedes Benz 500 SL around the Bergwerk curve. It's a simple test, essentially around one bend, and the difference between bronze (clean) and gold (perfect) is two seconds. Two seconds, and that's for just one corner. There are over seventy bends on the 'Ring. For most tracks, two seconds is the difference between a good lap time and a great lap time. At the 'Ring, the difference between a good lap and a great lap can be twenty seconds or more.

It's easy to blur the line between perfect, fast, and clean over the course of a lap. When you add the intricacies of the pro controller setting to street tire grip, then rounding all the bends perfectly is a true feat of skill and focus. That's why I offer the sub 7'40 challenge of the street Aprilia RSV1000R factory: clean and fast I can do, but perfect? Hopefully someone else can.
 
orpheusd0wn
I post all of that wondering if anyone else would take up where I've failed, and see if that bike (with street tires and stock exhaust, but set the gear and suspension however you like) really can be the sub 7'40 machine I think it is. If you try it, I thank you in advance for your time.
Click to expand...

7'30.075 on the Aprilia RSV1000 (street tire, stock exhaust, and Pro mode). And no screw ups or small offs.
 
-Stormryder-
7'30.075 on the Aprilia RSV1000 (street tire, stock exhaust, and Pro mode). And no screw ups or small offs.
Click to expand...

I thought you quit playing the game. Saw your acceptance speech one on of the other boards. One would think you won an academy award or something. :sly:

Uncreated
 
-Stormryder-
7'30.075 on the Aprilia RSV1000 (street tire, stock exhaust, and Pro mode). And no screw ups or small offs.
Click to expand...

Watching your laps and you time at the Ring, could you pls help me with bike setup?
My best so far with 8H Kawa is around 7'15'', basically same time with R1 8H and Morywaki 1000RR.

Main of these seconds (starting from a clean 7') are lost in the tobogas, in the mid fast part of the circuit and in the last right turn after the long straight (were bike control is a lottery with the front wheel that goes wherever it likes)

I used the following riding form:
Head Roll Angle- 0
Head Pitch Angle- 7.1
Torso Roll Angle- -8
Torso Yaw Angle- -25
Body Lean(Full Bank)- 25
Arm Angle- 50
Seat Postion(Forward/Back)- 0.8
Lateral Slide- 25
Vertical Slide- 3
Leg Angle- 70
Body Lean(Upright)- 25
and it helps to push the front of the bike

Bike setup is basically 2 click harder in the back, 1 click harder in the front, the rest is standard except the braking balance (+2 in the front and +1 in the back).

So far the bike is almost perfect around the 80% :sly: of the track, but a nightmare in the remaining 20% :scared: (several times I need to turn off throttle not to crash with the bike dancing like crazy.....)

Any suggestion?💡

Thanks for support
 
Did you watch me replay at all? That could have helped (video quality is bad, sorry about that). So if you want my replay on your memory card, just ask me and I'll send you a link to download it. Umm.. ok...

Now, first off, which bike do you feel best on? The Moriwaki bike seems to do really well in my standpoint.

See I cant really tell how bad or good your bike is handling. I also dont know how your rider form will affect any of it (I'll try your setup, to see how it is). If you have a replay available, I could look over it. Your brake balance, if I read it right, said 2 in the front, and 1 in the back. My brake balances are 6 in the front and 6 in the back. It's really damn responsive. But for me it works out fine.

And uncreated... I never quit :sly: (Reply to all those PM's I sent to you, you bum :dopey: )
 
-Stormryder-
Did you watch me replay at all? That could have helped (video quality is bad, sorry about that). So if you want my replay on your memory card, just ask me and I'll send you a link to download it. Umm.. ok...
Now, first off, which bike do you feel best on? The Moriwaki bike seems to do really well in my standpoint.
See I cant really tell how bad or good your bike is handling. I also dont know how your rider form will affect any of it (I'll try your setup, to see how it is). If you have a replay available, I could look over it. Your brake balance, if I read it right, said 2 in the front, and 1 in the back. My brake balances are 6 in the front and 6 in the back. It's really damn responsive. But for me it works out fine.


I've the PAL version of the game, I guess your version is NTSC US, I don't think replay files can be shared
Anyway, the best riding sensations are the ones with Hondas in general, with a front fork very reactive in changes and accurate enough on high speed turns. So far all the 1000RR tested (Standard, RM and Moriwaki) are the ones that better follows my riding style - also overspinning it's easy to manage.
I used +2 in the front and +1 in the rear brakes (that means 6 front and 5 rear - I've tested also 7 front and 5 rear, but in the hard brakes the bike dances too much and you risk to loose the perfect line and to overspinn coming out the turn to get again in the right line - very spectacular in the replays but bad to save time).
7Star Honda will be soon in my garage (I preferr time challenge to races - too easy to win), but so far Nurburgring is the Black Beast, no way to get below 7'15''

Thanks for reply and suggestions 👍

So far the best bike tested on the Ring is VF400RM - RC, I'm sure that if Polyphony inserted in the game the RC30 or the RC45 RM making a 7' lap should have been really easy and "relaxing" :sly:
Click to expand...
 
IOMTT
I've tested also 7 front and 5 rear, but in the hard brakes the bike dances too much and you risk to loose the perfect line and to overspinn coming out the turn to get again in the right line - very spectacular in the replays but bad to save time).
Click to expand...

Overspin? Sounds like you're using pro mode. In that case, consider using the Jomo Suzuki 8HR bike. The transmission is silky smooth and very forgiving.

As a pro mode player myself, I highly suggest you dial your rear brake strength back a whole lot. My own settings are 4 in front and 1 in back. If you haven't found out already, things tend to get wobbly when you're using your back brake at high speed. And that includes straight line braking. Gosh forbid if you ever lock that rear brake up. That's where the 1 setting comes in -- it minimizes the risk.

You might consider a 4 setting in front quite low, but because I tend to brake hard and relatively late, I've found the bike tucks and lowsides in turns too much (if it doesn't outright flip over) when I use any setting higher than that.

And in terms of controlling the "dance" you mentioned, always do the majority of your braking when the bike is as upright as possible. And since you're on pro mode, you can correct your line mid-turn by selective use of the front or rear brake. Front alone tends to correct oversteer while rear alone will help your bike dip back into the turn if you find yourself running wide. Using both together will help you keep a neat line through turns.

Uncreated
 
The Uncreated
Overspin? Sounds like you're using pro mode. In that case, consider using the Jomo Suzuki 8HR bike. The transmission is silky smooth and very forgiving.

As a pro mode player myself, I highly suggest you dial your rear brake strength back a whole lot. My own settings are 4 in front and 1 in back. If you haven't found out already, things tend to get wobbly when you're using your back brake at high speed. And that includes straight line braking. Gosh forbid if you ever lock that rear brake up. That's where the 1 setting comes in -- it minimizes the risk.

You might consider a 4 setting in front quite low, but because I tend to brake hard and relatively late, I've found the bike tucks and lowsides in turns too much (if it doesn't outright flip over) when I use any setting higher than that.

And in terms of controlling the "dance" you mentioned, always do the majority of your braking when the bike is as upright as possible. And since you're on pro mode, you can correct your line mid-turn by selective use of the front or rear brake. Front alone tends to correct oversteer while rear alone will help your bike dip back into the turn if you find yourself running wide. Using both together will help you keep a neat line through turns.

Uncreated
Click to expand...


Of course I ride with pro mode only, basically I'm trying to report in Virtual Word what you are used to affort in the real Speedtrack, and I have to say that 80% of bike reactions are really close to what it happens in "real riding". And as it happens in real life it's easier to get close to best lap with a "Superstock" bike than with a "SBK" one (in the game we can consider RM bikes as STK and 8H SBK), due to the fact that you can run faster around corners and you can easily manage the power avoiding very hard brakes and over spinning out the turns.
I agree with you on brake balances, I tested last night on a Gixxer RM 4 in front and 2 in back and it works, you loose brake power but you can easily get into turns with brake power still on without flipping over.
So far rider position seems ok, brake balance too, gear ratio perfect (red lining at the end of the last straight), I still have to work on suspensions settings to find the best mid way between bunping high speed sections and drivable ones.
Going on testing, no hurry, good things come to those who wait
👍
 
Hmm... superstock bikes are faster than SBK bikes?

Are you absolutely sure about that? I thought usually if you went in SBK, you had to go through British Superbikes or AMA to get to SBK, then go off onto MotoGP if required.

What about the riders that do Isle of Mann TT? Some of them come from British Superbikes. But on comparison, are they better than MotoGP riders? My opinion is that they are.

From my perspective on the game, the 8HR bikes are faster hands down. They grip better, turn better, accelerate faster, hit a higher top speed, and brake better.

The RM bikes are supposed to be stock bikes with very little modifications, right?

The 8HR bikes are heavily modified. I dont think there are that many stock parts in a 8HR bike...
 
I didn't mean that STK are faster than SBK, I meant that it's easier to get STK to the limit than a SBK.
I've been at TT races every year since 2002, check the best lap made by Mc Guinness in the Senior TT with a SBK HM Plany machine and the best lap made by Anstey with a STK Gixeer in the STK race this year.

Mc Guinness lapped in 17' 29'' around the 37,73 miles of the TT (Official SBK machine)
Anstey lapped in 17'56'' around the 37,73 miles of the TT (Official STK machine)

As you can see, considering that TT races is harder and longer 3 times more than the ring, there's not that big difference (considering a STK machine against a fully modified)
That's why that kind of circuits are not speedtracks, but bumpy roads.

Riding in Silverston, Snetterton or Monza can really makes the difference if you use a STK or a SBK (in Monza in May STK best lap 1'51, SBK 1'46'' in a 4 miles circuit), but on bumping roads it's the possibility to use all the power that can make the difference and get HP lack not so heavy to get a good lap.👍
 
Finally done my first clean lap of the 'Ring in TT.. not that quick - but I didn't fall off, and I only left the track for a moment at Sprunghugel. Managed it in 7'46 on a BMW K1200S (stock, semi pro)... but much time to be had still.

I tend to wuss out over bumpy bits - although at trial mountain and deep forest I have noticed that if you pull a wheelie (where available) before you hit the bumpy bits - just enough to get your front wheel clear of the tarmac - you ride over them smooth as swiss-tony on ice... this does only work if you are going in a straight line though...

just my 2 cents
 
Have any of you guys ever seen the 'Top Gear' feature, where 'Ring taxi driver Sabine (:bowdown: :P) takes a ford transit van round the ring in 10 mins... in places she is catching up guys on bikes... then she shouts

"get out of ze vay you fat english oaf on a bike"

It is the FUNNIEST thing ever, guys leathered up to the max getting shouted out by a german woman in a van as they get over taken through Hatzenbach!!!!!

Well i though it was funny anyway.
 
matski
Have any of you guys ever seen the 'Top Gear' feature, where 'Ring taxi driver Sabine (:bowdown: :P) takes a ford transit van round the ring in 10 mins... in places she is catching up guys on bikes... then she shouts

"get out of ze vay you fat english oaf on a bike"

It is the FUNNIEST thing ever, guys leathered up to the max getting shouted out by a german woman in a van as they get over taken through Hatzenbach!!!!!

Well i though it was funny anyway.
Click to expand...

Yep, seen it and yes it was very funny, if not a little scary. :lol:

Hamsters face was probably the funniest part.
 
-Stormryder-
What about the riders that do Isle of Mann TT? Some of them come from British Superbikes. But on comparison, are they better than MotoGP riders? My opinion is that they are.
Click to expand...

Although this may seem correct, it isn't. MotoGP riders are THE top of the bunch. Their skill and control over any bike is insane, being able to open up a powerslide and still corner staying in the apex, etc.

If a MotoGP rider was allowed to ride the TT course ( not able to due to insurance issues with their team ) they would be lapping near, if not quicker than the TT specialist riders.

For example, look at Valentino Rossi, he CAN do ANYTHING on a bike. He's a brilliant rider on and off the track, so I believe he'd have no difficulty in setting a new TT lap record and average top speed record.
 

Latest Posts

Back