OFFLINE FREE RUN <> ONLINE FREE RUN <> ONLINE RACE: why??

[Silver_MK]

why the car physical is different between OFFLINE FREE RUN, ONLINE FREE RUN & ONLINE RACE??
These are SOME OF the reasons:


OFFLINE FREE RUN
-increase car KM: ON
-consume tyres / fuel: OFF

ONLINE FREE RUN
-increase car KM: OFF
-consume tyres / fuel: ON
-drafting: OFF

ONLINE RACE
-increase car KM: ON
-consume tyres / fuel: ON
-drafting: ON



PD is complicating life...
what do you think about?

bye



Silver

 

[PhillGuy]

I hate how the physics are different from the online free run to the online racing. I really messes me up after I do good fast laps in the free run and the the physic get all loose and I can't race the same with the setup i worked out in the free run.

 

[VTiRoj]

I hate how the physics are different from the online free run to the online racing. I really messes me up after I do good fast laps in the free run and the the physic get all loose and I can't race the same with the setup i worked out in the free run.

+1

And when you tune a car in online free run, it's an understeering heap when it comes to offline. You're actually best off building 2 of each car. One online one, one offline tune.

 

[Tommy_861]

I hate how the physics are different from the online free run to the online racing. I really messes me up after I do good fast laps in the free run and the the physic get all loose and I can't race the same with the setup i worked out in the free run.

There is no difference in physics, its just that tires and fuel wear and get consumed during a race.

 

[Silver_MK]

There is no difference in physics, its just that tires and fuel wear and get consumed during a race.

Exactly!!
The different between ONLINE and OFFLINE free run is the option ON / OFF "consume tyres / fuel".
We ask to PD to able manage all these parameters!

incredible, PD is the King of senseless things!

Silver

 

[gz]

I noticed -and learned to hate- difference between online and offline ... it made me loose all interest in parctice mode - which I always fond quite comfortable but gets useless since car feels different when competing online

as a noobish quiestion, still, I'd like to ask what's the main differences between online free run and online race, especiallyin the car feeling and handling ... up to now I thought the physics where the same between free run and race ...

 

[Rosemeyer78]

During the ONLINE free run, it's not possible to take advantage of the trail of those ahead of you.. (it's not enabled)
during the ONLINE race, yes.

 

[gz]

During the ONLINE free run, it's not possible to take advantage of the trail of those ahead of you.. (it's not enabled)
during the ONLINE race, yes.

ok, thanks a lot for the clear and quick answer
Now I just feel a little "noob" for not noticing that you cannot draft in ONLINE free run

 

[jjaisli]

ok, thanks a lot for the clear and quick answer
Now I just feel a little "noob" for not noticing that you cannot draft in ONLINE free run

Well, the reason behind it does make sense. Free run can also be used as a qualifying session. And people could gain an unfair advantage by running in a draft and gaining lots of speed--especially with this game's exaggerated draft.

 

[Rosemeyer78]

Well, the reason behind it does make sense....

I agree with you.

 

[Firehuntah]

There is no difference in physics, its just that tires and fuel wear and get consumed during a race.

So many people say this, but I don't believe this is true. Every car I've tried feels so different online compared to offline (even with 'consume fuel/tyres' turned on). Try the Nurburgring Nordschleife online, the Karussell is pretty much impossible to take smoothly. Offline I can perfectly drive through it, online I spin out every time (with the same car). Problem is that all cars suddenly get a lot of oversteer online for some reason. It can't be the fuel or tyre wear cause I don't have this problem when doing endurance races, where it's obviously turned on as well. Really don't get it anyway, even if it would be the fuel and tyre wear. Should be no difference when you have new tyres and a full tank of fuel..

 

[Silver_MK]

I think that nothing makes sense in this structure!

remember to vote "turn down the draft"!!
http://feedback.gtplanet.net/forums...stions/1431901-turn-down-the-draft-?ref=title

Silver

 

[Tommy_861]

So many people say this, but I don't believe this is true. Every car I've tried feels so different online compared to offline (even with 'consume fuel/tyres' turned on). Try the Nurburgring Nordschleife online, the Karussell is pretty much impossible to take smoothly. Offline I can perfectly drive through it, online I spin out every time (with the same car). Problem is that all cars suddenly get a lot of oversteer online for some reason. It can't be the fuel or tyre wear cause I don't have this problem when doing endurance races, where it's obviously turned on as well. Really don't get it anyway, even if it would be the fuel and tyre wear. Should be no difference when you have new tyres and a full tank of fuel..

I have no problem driving the Karousel smoothly online. I use a car that I tuned offline (but tweaked online) quite a bit on the ring. I will agree it feels different online, but I attribute it to the fact that for example by the time you get to the Karousel you are about 6 miles in on a track that is very intense and can be hard on tires. Depending on the car, a set of racing softs only really last 2 laps at full tilt on there.

 

[Snakebitten]

So many people say this, but I don't believe this is true. Every car I've tried feels so different online compared to offline (even with 'consume fuel/tyres' turned on). Try the Nurburgring Nordschleife online, the Karussell is pretty much impossible to take smoothly. Offline I can perfectly drive through it, online I spin out every time (with the same car). Problem is that all cars suddenly get a lot of oversteer online for some reason. It can't be the fuel or tyre wear cause I don't have this problem when doing endurance races, where it's obviously turned on as well. Really don't get it anyway, even if it would be the fuel and tyre wear. Should be no difference when you have new tyres and a full tank of fuel..

EXACTLY...I made a thread about this that got deleted cause it was deemed repetitive. I too feel the physics are different and it is NOT because of that fuel/tire excuse PD gives. The cars feel like they are on glass tires. Every car, even the very low hp/tq cars turn into drift kings when you race them online.

I don't do online racing anymore as I just cant take the ridiculous physics anymore. I messed up so many of my cars tunes that were absolutely beautiful handling OFFLINE because I had to try to make them drivable ONLINE. I dont get the purpose of having two different physics systems for one game. The more I play this game the more puzzled I become about PD.

BTW I raced online for the last time 2 days ago. Some really weird car disappearing, teleporting and weird zigzag darting movements I noticed that day. Not my car but other peoples cars. One minute Im closing in on someones bumper then, in the blink of an eye, they are 1000 feet ahead of me. Has the servers been hacked? Are there cheats now?

 

[jjaisli]

I can only say, that after putting in a LOT of time and effort driving different cars both online and offline and making comparisons, the tire wear, tire temperature and fuel load argument not only makes sense but seems to account for all of the differences I've ever felt or experienced. Perhaps there are odd glitches and things people are experiencing that I'm not. But to me, after many, many weeks of testing this back and forth, the differences are clear.

Online mode is the most realistic. Currently, offline mode, especially A-spec events has realism crippled in several ways.
1) Tire wear
2) Tire Temperature
3) Damage
4) fuel loads
5) track grip level (real vs low)
PD didn't help matters by not properly explaining things to the community. And they still haven't. Through a combination of Kaz's cryptic tweets, what others have written and my own testing, I'm pretty sure I know what's going on.

When you start a race online, your tires are cold and the fuel load is full. Your grip and braking will be compromised and the added weight of fuel makes it feel odd. This means the car is going to wallow and squat on it's suspension more than it would offline. You're going to have understeer in some places and oversteer in others. Once the tires get up to temperature, assuming they've worn evenly and you haven't over-driven the car while they were cold, it will begin to feel more like it does off-line, but probably still a bit slower until the fuel load decreases. But it takes so long for the fuel load to decrease that by then, your tires are probably going off and you won't have the same level of grip. Depending on the track, your setup and your driving style, you may go through several sets of tires until your fuel load is depeleted. Eventually, with a very low fuel load, the car will tend to 'bonce' a bit on it's suspension. But a trip to the pits for fuel and new tires will make it feel just like it did during the beginning of the race.

I don't do online racing anymore as I just cant take the ridiculous physics anymore.

Ironically, I only like racing online because offline mode is simply not realistic.

BTW I raced online for the last time 2 days ago. Some really weird car disappearing, teleporting and weird zigzag darting movements I noticed that day. Not my car but other peoples cars. One minute Im closing in on someones bumper then, in the blink of an eye, they are 1000 feet ahead of me. Has the servers been hacked? Are there cheats now?

Snakebitten, this is not a mystery. And it has nothing to do with hacked servers or cheats. It's simply a matter of lousy connections, packet losses, severe latency and possibly poor prediction code. Welcome to the world of online play.

 

[Tommy_861]

EXACTLY...I made a thread about this that got deleted cause it was deemed repetitive. I too feel the physics are different and it is NOT because of that fuel/tire excuse PD gives. The cars feel like they are on glass tires. Every car, even the very low hp/tq cars turn into drift kings when you race them online.

I don't do online racing anymore as I just cant take the ridiculous physics anymore. I messed up so many of my cars tunes that were absolutely beautiful handling OFFLINE because I had to try to make them drivable ONLINE. I dont get the purpose of having two different physics systems for one game. The more I play this game the more puzzled I become about PD.

BTW I raced online for the last time 2 days ago. Some really weird car disappearing, teleporting and weird zigzag darting movements I noticed that day. Not my car but other peoples cars. One minute Im closing in on someones bumper then, in the blink of an eye, they are 1000 feet ahead of me. Has the servers been hacked? Are there cheats now?

Those problems you describe are due to a combination of lag and low race quality settings. Theres some threads here describing it better than I could so I'd rather not say something that is incorrect. Suffice it to say no there aren't any hacks or cheats, you were just in a couple bad rooms.

Regarding physics I just don't see it. Everything feels basically the same aside from the slight differences I can attribute to tires/fuel. Yes the car does feel less planted (because the tires lose their consistency). The problem is exacerbated on longer tracks like Suzuka and obviously Nurburgring.

It just doesn't make sense to have a totally different physics model online, and not everyone is seeing this as an issue, so there has to be something more to it. Maybe more factors have an effect online, or maybe your driving style is just slightly different enough that these effects cause a problem.

I can only say, that after putting in a LOT of time and effort driving different cars both online and offline and making comparisons, the tire wear, tire temperature and fuel load argument not only makes sense but seems to account for all of the differences I've ever felt or experienced. Perhaps there are odd glitches and things people are experiencing that I'm not. But to me, after many, many weeks of testing this back and forth, the differences are clear.

Online mode is the most realistic. Currently, offline mode, especially A-spec events has realism crippled in several ways.
1) Tire wear
2) Tire Temperature
3) Damage
4) fuel loads
5) track grip level (real vs low)
PD didn't help matters by not properly explaining thing to the community. And they still haven't. Through a combination of Kaz's cryptic tweets, what others have written and my own testing, I'm pretty sure I know what's going on.

When you start a race online, your tires are cold and the fuel load is full. Your grip and braking will be compromised and the added weight of fuel makes it feel odd. This means the car is going to wallow and squat on it's suspension more than it would offline. Once the tires get up to temperature, assuming they've worn evenly and you haven't over-driven the car while they were cold, it will begin to feel more like it does off-line, but probably still a bit slower until the fuel load decreases. But it takes so long for the fuel load to decrease that by then, your tires are probably going off and you won't have the same level of grip. Depending on the track, your setup and your driving style, you may go through several sets of tires until your fuel load is depeleted. Eventually, with a very low fuel load, the car will tend to 'bonce' a bit on it's suspension. But a trip to the pits for fuel and new tires will make it feel just like it did during the beginning of the race.

THIS

I'd bet the entire weight of the fuel is not being calculated in at all offline which can also account for handling differences, as with all that extra weight it can have a large effect on handling. Also offline your tires basically go to full grip right away, online they do not, they behave realistically.

 

[Firehuntah]

I have no problem driving the Karousel smoothly online. I use a car that I tuned offline (but tweaked online) quite a bit on the ring. I will agree it feels different online, but I attribute it to the fact that for example by the time you get to the Karousel you are about 6 miles in on a track that is very intense and can be hard on tires. Depending on the car, a set of racing softs only really last 2 laps at full tilt on there.

I can easily do 3 laps with race soft with most cars before I really notice them getting worse. But I'm not talking about the difference in tyre wear turned on or off. I have tyre wear on when I'm driving offline as well and every car just feels completely different. Also most of the cars I drive are stock, so I didn't fine tune them for offline or anything. Tried some JGTC cars yesterday, all of them oversteered alot. When driving these offline (even with fuel/tyre wear turned on) you can pretty much go full throttle through most corners without any oversteer or the wheels spinning.
Also the Mazda Furai, this thing should pretty much be stuck to the road but again it oversteers alot, wheels start spinning and I just can't control it online. Had to set rear downforce to max and front to min. to make it a bit easier, but it still had some oversteer. I just don't get where the change of physics is coming from, but it definately has nothing to do with the tyre wear or fuel.

EXACTLY...I made a thread about this that got deleted cause it was deemed repetitive. I too feel the physics are different and it is NOT because of that fuel/tire excuse PD gives. The cars feel like they are on glass tires. Every car, even the very low hp/tq cars turn into drift kings when you race them online.

I don't do online racing anymore as I just cant take the ridiculous physics anymore. I messed up so many of my cars tunes that were absolutely beautiful handling OFFLINE because I had to try to make them drivable ONLINE. I dont get the purpose of having two different physics systems for one game. The more I play this game the more puzzled I become about PD.

BTW I raced online for the last time 2 days ago. Some really weird car disappearing, teleporting and weird zigzag darting movements I noticed that day. Not my car but other peoples cars. One minute Im closing in on someones bumper then, in the blink of an eye, they are 1000 feet ahead of me. Has the servers been hacked? Are there cheats now?

Well it's not really drifting for me, just oversteer and the car just smacking into the wall. With racing softs at least. But with worse tyres the cars do slide a bit faster than usual though yeah..

As for the disappearing/teleporting, could just be lag. See it often too.




Edit:

I'd bet the entire weight of the fuel is not being calculated in at all offline which can also account for handling differences, as with all that extra weight it can have a large effect on handling. Also offline your tires basically go to full grip right away, online they do not, they behave realistically.

It is being calculated offline as well, can do faster laptimes when fuel is low. This is why I don't get the difference as tyre wear and fuel works exactly the same offline and online.

 

[OK8]

This would be pretty simple to fix anyway! Just include tyre wear and fuel depletion in _ALL_ races online or offline. Drafting is not such a big problem, though it really should be toned down.

 

[Firehuntah]

This would be pretty simple to fix anyway! Just include tyre wear and fuel depletion in _ALL_ races online or offline. Drafting is not such a big problem, though it really should be toned down.

Thing is that it still feels completely different in an endurance race (where tyre wear and fuel depletion is turned on). Never had that much oversteer in any of the endurances, while there is a lot of oversteer online.

 

[Dapper]

Thing is that it still feels completely different in an endurance race(where tyre wear and fuel depletion is turned on). Never had that much oversteer in any of the endurances, while there is a lot of oversteer online.

Yet people still say, over and over and over, that is a defining difference between online and offline, but, obviously, it's not.

 

[st1sj]

i agree there is a difference b/w offline v online. i did the laguna seca endurance offline in my 111R RM and then at the same track with the exact car online. fishtailed a lot online and much easier to lose the backend, whereas offline the car was on rails. also, online the corner entry speed was slower and could not get on the throttle as early as offline in endurance.

so i think there is more than just tire wear and fuel load.

 

[PhillGuy]

Do the tires heat up in an online race and this is not taken into account in the online free race. There is a definite difference between the two. The same setup doesn't work for both.

 

[Tommy_861]

Thing is that it still feels completely different in an endurance race (where tyre wear and fuel depletion is turned on). Never had that much oversteer in any of the endurances, while there is a lot of oversteer online.

See, I have had an opposite experience. I have a Miata I built specifically for online racing against my cousin (prettymuch he has the identical car). I then used it yesterday in the 4 hour Roadster endurance race and it behaved exactly the same. Grip, tires, etc everything worked the same as online and I raced it a LOT online against him.

 

[Firehuntah]

See, I have had an opposite experience. I have a Miata I built specifically for online racing against my cousin (prettymuch he has the identical car). I then used it yesterday in the 4 hour Roadster endurance race and it behaved exactly the same. Grip, tires, etc everything worked the same as online and I raced it a LOT online against him.

I don't think you notice it much in the slower cars like the miata. Did you try to compare online and offline with any 500-600hp+ cars? It's very noticeable for me with the faster cars. Go full throttle with them through a corner on racing softs and it just oversteers into a wall or off the track. Never see this happen during an offline endurance race. Wheels will probably start spinning and you slide a bit but never oversteer.

 

[Tommy_861]

I don't think you notice it much in the slower cars like the miata. Did you try to compare online and offline with any 500-600hp+ cars? It's very noticeable for me with the faster cars. Go full throttle with them through a corner on racing softs and it just oversteers into a wall or off the track. Never see this happen during an offline endurance race. Wheels will probably start spinning and you slide a bit but never oversteer.

I run a Corvette C6 RM (700ish hp), 10 Camaro SS (442hp), 09 GTR Spec V (538hp), and a 04 S2000 GT1 (542hp) both online and offline extensively and have never had this problem (oversteer). I even ran my Minolta Toyota 88C-V online the other night at LeMans and really didn't notice a difference. The GTR and S2000 I have also worked pretty extensively on the suspensions, the other cars are basically on factory settings.

Any car I had oversteer problems with I usually just stiffened the rear sway bar a bit and raised the rear ride height and it cured it.

 

[Firehuntah]

I run a Corvette C6 RM (700ish hp), 10 Camaro SS (442hp), 09 GTR Spec V (538hp), and a 04 S2000 GT1 (542hp) both online and offline extensively and have never had this problem (oversteer). I even ran my Minolta Toyota 88C-V online the other night at LeMans and really didn't notice a difference. The GTR and S2000 I have also worked pretty extensively on the suspensions, the other cars are basically on factory settings.

Any car I had oversteer problems with I usually just stiffened the rear sway bar a bit and raised the rear ride height and it cured it.

Weird then, it seems like a huge difference to me. Maybe it's because I didn't really do much online racing untill I had all my cars and completed the offline part.

Anyway, I also just play around with the settings a bit till I can get rid of the oversteer a bit, but I just wonder why I have to do this. Don't know where the difference is coming from. Physics should feel the same in every aspect of the game, but for some reason it doesn't for many people. And since we can't save car settings it's pretty annoying when you switch between online and offline often.

 

[Snakebitten]

Appreciate the responses/info. First timer for online racing lol so I had never seen the teleporting stuff before till this last Saturday The whole 2 weeks Ive been Onlining I never saw it either before this last time.

As for the tire/fuel explanation everyone still seems to buy into: Id understand if my car handling slowly degraded due to tire wear and got faster due to fuel use. BUT I notice the nonsense SOON as I leave the pits for the first time, first corner. The same car that's totally planted and can power out of a corner OFFLINE now just oversteer's and acts like it just wants to drift through every corner. Its sickening. Ive learned to deal with it and still win quite a few races but its absolutely no fun at all to me. Yes the field of ONLINE racers are infinitely better racers than the lobotomized freaks that you race against offline but I don't have fun with an ill handling car at all 100% of the online time. If I want the thrill of a hard car to drive Ill load up a Yellow Bird and do a race offline. Online I want to at least feel like Im racing against other enthusiasts not that AND surviving silly physics.

Pick a 300hp Spirit R RX7 street car and pick a racing RE Amemiya RX7 with downforce and they both drive like they have glass tires from the very first corner NOT toward the end of the race. I really dont care what PD says there is something more going on here and it sucks lol. IMHO of course

I remember PD did some similar craziness with the bonestock non patched game. Remember how FAST the tires got red and heated up? High torque cars were undrivable from the very first lap. Remember the RUF Yellow Bird LOL. It would murder you for like a half lap then the tires were shot and it would be car ping pong for the rest of the race, and thats with the computer driving it lol. They fixed that with the first patch. The tires dont get red now unless you overdrive. I think they need to tweak the online physics now. I dont want to sound close minded on this but I just dont buy the tire/fuel explanation as its happening from the very beginning where your tires are fresh. I always use Race Softs.

Also why dont the same tweaks you do offline work online? If I want to quell oversteer etc you do this and that offline. You do the same thing online it does not work. I cant make any of my cars not oversteer regardless of hp/tq.

 

[Tommy_861]

Appreciate the responses/info. First timer for online racing lol so I had never seen the teleporting stuff before till this last Saturday The whole 2 weeks Ive been Onlining I never saw it either before this last time.

As for the tire/fuel explanation everyone still seems to buy into: Id understand if my car handling slowly degraded due to tire wear and got faster due to fuel use. BUT I notice the nonsense SOON as I leave the pits for the first time, first corner. The same car that's totally planted and can power out of a corner OFFLINE now just oversteer's and acts like it just wants to drift through every corner. Its sickening. Ive learned to deal with it and still win quite a few races but its absolutely no fun at all to me. Yes the field of ONLINE racers are infinitely better racers than the lobotomized freaks that you race against offline but I don't have fun with an ill handling car at all 100% of the online time. If I want the thrill of a hard car to drive Ill load up a Yellow Bird and do a race offline. Online I want to at least feel like Im racing against other enthusiasts not that AND surviving silly physics.

Pick a 300hp Spirit R RX7 street car and pick a racing RE Amemiya RX7 with downforce and they both drive like they have glass tires from the very first corner NOT toward the end of the race. I really dont care what PD says there is something more going on here and it sucks lol. IMHO of course

I remember PD did some similar craziness with the bonestock non patched game. Remember how FAST the tires got red and heated up? High torque cars were undrivable from the very first lap. Remember the RUF Yellow Bird LOL. It would murder you for like a half lap then the tires were shot and it would be car ping pong for the rest of the race, and thats with the computer driving it lol. They fixed that with the first patch. The tires dont get red now unless you overdrive. I think they need to tweak the online physics now. I dont want to sound close minded on this but I just dont buy the tire/fuel explanation as its happening from the very beginning where your tires are fresh. I always use Race Softs.

Also why dont the same tweaks you do offline work online? If I want to quell oversteer etc you do this and that offline. You do the same thing online it does not work. I cant make any of my cars not oversteer regardless of hp/tq.

DING You just answered your question. Because of the tire degradation online the tires start "cold" and yes they are slippery and the car will slide and oversteer for sometimes the entire first lap till the tires heat up. Then they get sticky, then they fall off over time. On the Nurburgring for about the first minute and a half on the track the tires are still not up to temperature. Offline the tires are consistent all through the race start to finish. You can have the perfect suspension setup it still can't change the fact the tires start out as 4 ice cubes at the start till they warm up.

 

[Firehuntah]

DING You just answered your question. Because of the tire degradation online the tires start "cold" and yes they are slippery and the car will slide and oversteer for sometimes the entire first lap till the tires heat up. Then they get sticky, then they fall off over time. On the Nurburgring for about the first minute and a half on the track the tires are still not up to temperature. Offline the tires are consistent all through the race start to finish. You can have the perfect suspension setup it still can't change the fact the tires start out as 4 ice cubes at the start till they warm up.

The same actually happens offline as well, not just online. Tyres start 'cold', first few corners of a race you notice that it's a bit more slippery. It even happens with tyre wear turned off.

 

[Tommy_861]

The same actually happens offline as well, not just online. Tyres start 'cold', first few corners of a race you notice that it's a bit more slippery. It even happens with tyre wear turned off.

I noticed that as well but online it seems far more pronounced, which is likely a byproduct of the full tire wear being available.