OLR Question

[JLawrence]

I wasn't sure how to word this in the search bar so I figured I'd post:

A:
If there’s contact between drivers that results in the guilty driver making up places on the innocent driver, the guilty driver should immediately allow the innocent driver to pass freely to re-establish their position. This rule should be observed, even if it means the guilty driver has to allow drivers not involved in the incident to pass while waiting for the driver they contacted.

First things first I race in real life in a couple vintage series, so I am very aware of contact and what happens upon contact. In the group I run with now if we have any incident more major than the most gentle scraping of doors we are supposed to retire immediately (mostly because there are times that we are on track with multimillion dollar pre-war race cars), but I remember before I started racing and was going as my dad's crewman to HSR and SCCA events contact was a much less major offense. Their rule seemed to be more along the lines of minor accidental contact isn't much of an issue, and when I started on the Gran Turismo series I sort of approached it with that attitude. Now I drive on here like I'm driving my own race car, and I try my best to be clean, but being that it is a game and the repercussions of an accident are virtually nonexistent, I find myself pushing a little more than I do in real life and making a couple more mistakes, occasionally resulting in me sliding off track, or bumping somebody in such a way that I make the pass. I don't quite understand the generic ruling here. I mean racing incidents happen, and occasionally it benefits the one who initiated the contact, but I have never once seen them pull off and give it back aside from Formula 1 when a pass is made cutting a corner. Does this apply regardless of the situation, or is there a margin for judgement on what is reasonable?

I would like to be crystal clear before I run in any series other than my own VSCS.

 

[ChaosStar79]

I wasn't sure how to word this in the search bar so I figured I'd post:



First things first I race in real life in a couple vintage series, so I am very aware of contact and what happens upon contact. In the group I run with now if we have any incident more major than the most gentle scraping of doors we are supposed to retire immediately (mostly because there are times that we are on track with multimillion dollar pre-war race cars), but I remember before I started racing and was going as my dad's crewman to HSR and SCCA events contact was a much less major offense. Their rule seemed to be more along the lines of minor accidental contact isn't much of an issue, and when I started on the Gran Turismo series I sort of approached it with that attitude. Now I drive on here like I'm driving my own race car, and I try my best to be clean, but being that it is a game and the repercussions of an accident are virtually nonexistent, I find myself pushing a little more than I do in real life and making a couple more mistakes, occasionally resulting in me sliding off track, or bumping somebody in such a way that I make the pass. I don't quite understand the generic ruling here. I mean racing incidents happen, and occasionally it benefits the one who initiated the contact, but I have never once seen them pull off and give it back aside from Formula 1 when a pass is made cutting a corner. Does this apply regardless of the situation, or is there a margin for judgement on what is reasonable?

I would like to be crystal clear before I run in any series other than my own VSCS.

A lot of the guys on here get bent out of shape if anything touches, but a lot are more reasonable about it too. Mostly the rule is to wreck yourself and not the other guy especially in a race. Sometimes you will have minor contact, it just happens. I wouldn't worry about pulling over to exchange insurance cards, just try to keep it clean and allow room for the other driver to do his thing.

 

[mrleadfoot]

I find bumping is a part of racing. I myself try to keep it as clean possible but if we are side by side and tap each other it doesnt bother me. Or if you get a slight bump from behind on a straight. But if I tap you which causes you to spin out ill pull over and i expect the same. If the driver doesnt pull over you better believe im going in hard and taking my spot back. I wont spin the dude out but ill bump off him in the turn. And if they try to block me on a straight im performing the pit manuever and into the wall they go

 

[JLawrence]

Mrleadfoot.....
That isn't the way to go about it in any situation.

Going in hard and causing another accident is not reasonable no matter how you look at it. If you're faster you'll get the position back organically. Now on a straight, you're generally allowed one blocking maneuver in most race series, and pitting is again the wrong thing to do. If you did that in my series you would be docked points, and if it happened again I would release you from the championship.

 

[Jubby]

Incidental contact should be fine, 2 cars in one place. The dive-bombing, unneeded risks are not. The lead car may also be at fault (intellectually). Yes, the rule book states that (correct me if I'm wrong) the lead car rules the road, but must yield when being overtaken. However, if a lead car is being approached by a car 10-20 mph faster, just let them pass (as the OP clearly seems to support). You could choose to make the following car take the "long way" around, but you probably shouldn't. But... there comes a time in any race where you'd start to "block" or "use up" the other driver, and that's at the end of the race. Here's the caveat, where do you draw the line? Is it the last lap, the last 5 laps, the last turn, or the last pit stint? There is no clear answer to this, but the bottom line to me is, don't make any intentional contact you wouldn't expect--- or want --- to have done to you.

 

[mrleadfoot]

Mrleadfoot.....
That isn't the way to go about it in any situation.

Going in hard and causing another accident is not reasonable no matter how you look at it. If you're faster you'll get the position back organically. Now on a straight, you're generally allowed one blocking maneuver in most race series, and pitting is again the wrong thing to do. If you did that in my series you would be docked points, and if it happened again I would release you from the championship.

Leagues are completely different. People are more respectful in leagues. Im talking about when u got the same person running a muck on the track race after race, Screw him i not going to let him ruin my race. As far as geting passed on a straight when the car behind you is clearly faster blocking isnt okay. But if both have the same and yeah one is allowed. It all depends on when he trys to block. If im drafting you and the moment i try and make a move and you block thats fine but if im passed your rear wheel and you ram me not cool. Im respectful if i mess up i slow down and i will apoligize over the mic. If im shown no respect on the track i will not show any towards you. This does not mean i hunt the driver down but i keep the name in mind and im more cautous around him/her (after the payback)

 

[BOSS Mustang]

This is one I have a hard time with too. I believe the OLR states you should be up to the front of the lead cars door or the lead car has the right of way. To me this is kinda bogus. In real life people are a lot more weary of the car behind and if they get even just the nose under there rear entering the corner they will be smart enough to take a wider line and stay side by side through the corner. And also anyone in real life that can get that nose under you will expect you to give him that room. There's no way in hell, in real life if someone gets half way or even past someones rear wheel that they are gonna give the lead car that spot back and let him dictate his line.

Dive bombing is one thing if your completely behind the lead car and pull out at the last second and think your gonna outbrake him, that's wrong. But I feel if you get any part of your car under, even if it's just your nose under his rear bumper and he turns in, pinching you down, that's the lead cars fault. If you do this and run wide, pushing him out, it's your fault. Let's say that is the the hypothetical cituation, your inside someones rear bumper just before the braking zone and you think you can out brake them but you brake late and they try too brake as late as you. Now let's say you both scrub off speed at the same rate then how are you supposed to let that guy pinch you. The rule says to avoid this cituation and let off before the braking point and let him choose the line he wants. Then how are you supposed to have any side by side battles through the corners. You already slowed down and lost momentum so you definately aint gonna make a pass on the outside.

Basically the only way to have good races is to get a bunch of people together that know how each other race and respect one another and realize that any contact is not intentional and rubbing is racing.

The only 2 things that really piss me off is divebombing slide jobs and getting punted in the rear when in straight line.

I think the OLR tried to get a little too technical with a grey area. Trying to put an end to any disputes between people. I think this rule should be open to interpretation by anyone running a series as to what is and isn't exceptable and obviously you'd need to implement a warning to the guilty party and clarify what that person did wrong by your interpretation of the rule.

 

[Nismo34]

Let's say that is the the hypothetical cituation, your inside someones rear bumper just before the braking zone and you think you can out brake them but you brake late and they try too brake as late as you. Now let's say you both scrub off speed at the same rate then how are you supposed to let that guy pinch you. The rule says to avoid this cituation and let off before the braking point and let him choose the line he wants. Then how are you supposed to have any side by side battles through the corners. You already slowed down and lost momentum so you definately aint gonna make a pass on the outside.

Basically the only way to have good races is to get a bunch of people together that know how each other race and respect one another and realize that any contact is not intentional and rubbing is racing.

The best bit about racing is the Side by Side action through corners. If it wasnt for that you'd might as well be driving on the highway like a leisurly sunday. I race in a room with some mates and we all know each other enough to know who uses what driving style and how they are through corners. I dont think I have ever gone a race with that lot without having a battle through the corners side by side, millimetres apart. Some of the best racing when that happens.

On topic about the Pulling over to one side and letting the guy through if you pushed him off track, I pull over if the mistake I made was an Accident. Ill say sorry, pull over, let him/her through and be right on their rear end waiting for a clean pass oppurtunity. Again, the room I race in alot, we all will do that if the shunt off the track was unintentional.

 

[JLawrence]

I feel like side mirrors would help tremendously, because a lot of my mistakes are made when the guy I am racing with is in my blind spot. I find it very hard to be explicitly clean when I cant see anywhere but directly in front and directly behind.

What about when you are in a pack and you tap one person? Do you give up all those positions and wait?

 

[Jubby]

Are we talking a tap or a shunt? Is it incidental contact in a gaggle of cars? I don't think there is one stock answer for every situation. Did you lightly tap the car ahead of you and moved them up the track slightly (but still on) because you simply didn't mean to? Personally, I feel that's acceptable and you shouldn't have to wreck your rhythm by allowing a re-pass and potentially losing the entire pack. It's a fine line.

 

[BOSS Mustang]

Are we talking a tap or a shunt? Is it incidental contact in a gaggle of cars? I don't think there is one stock answer for every situation. Did you lightly tap the car ahead of you and moved them up the track slightly (but still on) because you simply didn't mean to? Personally, I feel that's acceptable and you shouldn't have to wreck your rhythm by allowing a re-pass and potentially losing the entire pack. It's a fine line.

Basically what seems too happen a lot with my senario of being inside the rear bumper is the outside car will pinch down which A=him spinning or getting sideways or B=putting me in the wall or grass to the inside. in case A that person is crying about me trying to take the inside line when I wasn't fully along side of them up to the front of the door as the OLR states or in case B, me crying cause they pinched me off. If the cituation were reversed I wouldn't pinch down on someone that was inside of me, no matter how far they got there nose in there. At least not intentionally, and if I did make contact I would put the blame on myself. Taking the OLR literaly means you almost have to complete 3/4's of the pass before the braking zone or you have no right to the inside line. To me that is ridiculous.

Oh I forgot Case C=we both crash

 

[Johnnypenso]

I am surprised how often this topic comes up and how people can read the rules and not understand them. I'm also surprised how I can race online night after night with guys that follow the rules and we have more door handle to door handle racing than Nascar and contact is virtually non-existant.

Outbraking someone is wrong? LOL..outbraking is a traditional form of passing in all racing. But you need to learn how and where you can outbrake someone without going wide and shunting them off the track or pushing them a couple of wheels into the dirt. Practice it's called I believe. With the drafting effect in this game, there's absolutely no excuse for not being able to set someone up for a clean pass.

What I see the majority of problems arise from someone behind you thinking it's ok to stick their front bumper in front of your back bumper at every corner because they have a slight advantage owing to the draft, and they expect you to give way. This game is difficult enough without having to make sure someone behind you doesn't have a 1 inch overlap of your rear bumper every 100 feet. That's why they have rules about how far up you have to be to have a right to your line in a corner. If you cant' get any more than a few inches overlap, you aren't good enough or at least haven't earned the right to pass me and should give way. That's why they call it "passing" and not overlapping. Guys thinking that because they don't like them the rules should therefore not apply to them...well they are the problem...lol..

And that's something else people don't understand either. Getting parallel with me in a corner, doesn't entitle you to the racing line, it entitles you to "a" line in the corner, meaning I have to givey you enough space to negotiate the corner. I don't have to give way and let you pass, nor do I have to give you the racing line. And me entering the corner in front of you from the inside line and forcing you outside to pass is perfectly legitimate as well. I won many kart races on the last lap doing just that.

In my opinion the rules work quite well, and best if everyone follows them.

 

[JLawrence]

I am fully aware of how passing works as I race in real life (see OP) but the rules in game for passing just seem too anal, and I was curious to see if I had a good understanding of them.

 

[Bonzo]

Seems everyone I play with online (usually random rooms) I get spun out left and right, ESPECIALLY on Daytona. I would say 80% of the people I've played with who were in second behind me on the last lap have actively pitted me.

Guess I should go into clean rooms.

 

[Thaddaeus]

I feel like side mirrors would help tremendously, because a lot of my mistakes are made when the guy I am racing with is in my blind spot. I find it very hard to be explicitly clean when I cant see anywhere but directly in front and directly behind.

What about when you are in a pack and you tap one person? Do you give up all those positions and wait?

You can map the side view to either your controller or wheel. This might be of help in corwded corners when you want to be perfectly clean.

OT: In Real life, this rule is always suspect to the stuarts. It was once a gentlemen agreement, but as i see the DTM masters or similar series now, they bump as if there is no tommorow. If an incident happens, they let the race run, but chances are, that you either get a drive through penalty, or they add lets say 30 seconds to your finish time.
In Real life you just have more ways to enforce the rules. A Game (sadly) needs more strict rules to avoid any situation at best.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You can map controls on a DS3 or a DFGT (cant's speak for other wheels) for side view easily, which I do, but why bother with the distraction? Just change your in game map scale to 2 and you can see everyone within about 1 second and it is very accurate. If your opponents little cursor/avatar is slightly ahead of you on the map he's slightly ahead of you on the track. You don't have to hit any buttons or change your view just a quick glance up at the map and you can tell if someone is trying to out brake you, go outside/inside, drafting you etc. When I'm in tight with a competitor I check it constantly, as a minimum at the approach to every corner.