On EVOs and STIs

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nasanu

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nasanu
There once was a time that an evolution was always quite a bit faster than its counter sti. According to GT5P however, times have changed.

In the current sim time trial at suzuka the two go head to head and overall the sti is about a second a lap or so faster. The sti seems to have better acceleration while the evo x's handling cant make up the difference.

I have noticed something strange however. I set my first time in the evo and now tonight a few days later I had a go in the sti. The first thing I noticed was that my sti seemed to be going no faster than the evo, and the ghost of the top time sti was killing me in a straight line. I took quite a while to figure out why and once I had ruled out exit speed I finally found my answer (i really just should have watched his replay).

If you want to be fast in a sti, dont rev it. I found that simply by shifting 1-2K before redline you can pickup 10kmph + down the staight. The answer to this seems to be found in the boost gauge. You can see that as the engline builds revs and also loses boost. I am now wondering what other cars to apply this to.
 
Thanks for the tip on the short shifting :)

I find the STi is geared more for technical twisty tracks like london and eiger compared to the Evo, however it seems to have a lot softer suspension and certainly rolls about in the corners more.

TBH I don't see why Subaru changed the Impreza to a hatchback, did it not sell well in Japan? The shorter wheel base does help on the technical tracks (suppose it might help rallying?) but much less grip/stability than the evo in high speed turns.
 
IRL, the STI should theoretically be slower than an EVO if both are driven ideally. The STI, however, has been praised for its everyday driveability - its peak power and torque occur much lower in the rev range than the EVO. If you're short-shifting, you're keeping the car closer to its peak power more often.

This applies to any car. Take a look at the powerband - you almost always don't want to rev all the way to the redline before you shift (except in odd cases like the S2000, M3, etc). Typically, the rule is to shift shortly after the point of peak power (500-750rpm or so past).

TopGearFan08: It was for rallying. Subaru's most prestigious WRC driver told them that if it didn't become a hatch, he would quit.
 
TopGearFan08
Thanks for the tip on the short shifting :)

I find the STi is geared more for technical twisty tracks like london and eiger compared to the Evo, however it seems to have a lot softer suspension and certainly rolls about in the corners more.

TBH I don't see why Subaru changed the Impreza to a hatchback, did it not sell well in Japan? The shorter wheel base does help on the technical tracks (suppose it might help rallying?) but much less grip/stability than the evo in high speed turns.
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well subaru changed to hatch cause it will sell better in general....the hatch is just mutch more a rival for ford focus/citroen c4/vw golf...etc etc...(this i also read in a autocar magazine wich is pretty straight foreward)....BTW the mitsu lancer will come out as a hatchback this year too!!!!i saw it on the geneva autoshow this week...it must be in fashion:):)spyrrari.
 
Its too bad they don't give us a way to view the horsepower curves for each car, it would be helpful for knowing when to shift. As far as shifting goes, if you can shift and get to a higher point on the horsepower curve, you should shift. Stock turbo cars like the STi tend to have a big horsepower drop off at the upper end, so short shifting can actually get you back up on the curve. Horsepower is the rate that energy is being put into the cars mass + parasitics like wind etc, so being a higher point on the horsepower curve will give better acceleration at a given speed. The thing that can get confusing is that, in a given gear you get peak accel at the torque peak, but if you re-geared the car so that you were at the horsepower peak at that same speed ,you would get a higher rate of acceleration. This is because kinetic energy changes with the square of velocity. Meaning, even without wind resistance, it takes much more energy to accel a mass from 100 to 101 KPH, compared to accelerating from 10 to 11 KPH. Clear as mud right...
 
z06fun
Its too bad they don't give us a way to view the horsepower curves for each car, it would be helpful for knowing when to shift.
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In GT4's garage, you could view a car and its power graph. That was GT4, though, and I didn't ever really see a difference in shifting 500rpm before redline or shifting right at redline.

If the short-shifting technique works well on the STI in GT5:P, it seems the physics and accuracy of a car have improved more than one would think. Perhaps this power graph will be included and improved for the full release of GT5.


Not intending to thread hijack, nasanu, just responding to a comment. Carry on. :)
 
Okay, at least for me, the Evo is faster...lol

I can't drive the STi for crap. I think it's porbably just a difference of driving styles.
 
Z
In GT4's garage, you could view a car and its power graph. That was GT4, though, and I didn't ever really see a difference in shifting 500rpm before redline or shifting right at redline.
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IIRC, Penzoil Nismo race car greatly benefited from shifting some 500-750 revs before the redline, but that's about it, most cars, specially NA cars had better acceleration after the redline.
 
JM1681
Really...

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/05/evo-x-vs-sti-tsukuba-lap-times/
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Around the top gear track with the very important point of them both having the same driver, the EVO was always on top.

Anyway back on topic...

I always assumed for some reason that turbo cars needed to be reved. I dont know where I got this from, maybe from turbo lag and being afraid to get bogged down in it and always keeping revs high because of that. I always knew about shifting to match the power curve, or rather matching your gearing to match it, but I thought 1-2K is a bit much. Though that might not match the actual power curve, its only what I had to do to match the first guy.
 
Z
In GT4's garage, you could view a car and its power graph. That was GT4, though, and I didn't ever really see a difference in shifting 500rpm before redline or shifting right at redline.

If the short-shifting technique works well on the STI in GT5:P, it seems the physics and accuracy of a car have improved more than one would think. Perhaps this power graph will be included and improved for the full release of GT5.


Not intending to thread hijack, nasanu, just responding to a comment. Carry on. :)
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https://www.gtplanet.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=350&pos=432
 
nasanu
Around the top gear track with the very important point of them both having the same driver...
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Sorry, still [potentially] inaccurate.

There have been several Stigs throughout Top Gear's history. There are no guarantees the same driver, drove both cars.

I know, BOT, just had to point this out ;)
 
un_peacekeeper
https://www.gtplanet.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=350&pos=432
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Z
Okay, now that's what I'm talkin' about. I only wish the person responsible for that shot would've scrolled down as there seems to be a few more tuning options we can't see.

I really need to remember there's a gallery on this site. Thanks for that link. 👍
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What the...the link doesnt work anymore? lol.

https://www.gtplanet.net/gallery/albums/GT5_prologue/normal_GT35.jpg

THIS SHOULD! :lol:

Yeah, Z, I see what you mean, it's only a third of so of what the settings are. But I don't think there will be too much difference - standard transmission, suspension, etc.
 
Well, basing what I've read in Road & Track Mag and EVO Mag, the Evo MR is faster than the STI, it's actually 2.5 sec quicker than the STI around Willow Springs. All part in thanks to the AYC which makes the Evo take corners a lot better than the STI.

Here are two really good articles describing both cars in detail from both Mag's listed above.

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/211021/mitsubishi_evo_v_subaru_impreza.html

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=6387
 
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