On GT7 what European English speaking country should I be from?

[FearNoGears]

I'm an American that's going to be Racing in European GT7 lobbies soon! I can't do UK or Ireland because i have to agree verify & i don't wanna have to go thru that. There's a little over a handful of other English speaking choices but I have no real ties & would just be going off of the looks of their flag. From just the look of the flag I have a couple leaders. Now from a technical standpoint is there a country that I would have better ping/connection in? Any other points of view are welcomed as I will be choosing in the next couple hours. Thank you!!

 

[Famine]

I can't do UK or Ireland because i have to agree verify & i don't wanna have to go thru that.

What do you mean you "have to agree verify"? Setting up a new PSN account only requires an email address verification.

There's a little over a handful of other English speaking choices but I have no real ties & would just be going off of the looks of their flag. From just the look of the flag I have a couple leaders.

I'm afraid to say that, despite our best efforts in the last few hundred years, the only places in Europe that still speak English as a first or official language remain the United Kingdom, Ireland - although it's a second language in Ireland - and Malta.

Now from a technical standpoint is there a country that I would have better ping/connection in?

None of them, because unless you're physically moving your console to your new fake country, you'll still be sending and receiving data all the way across the Atlantic Ocean (plus however much distance within the US as well) - and everyone else in any Daily Races you race in can look forward to the effects of that.

 

[FearNoGears]

What do you mean you "have to agree verify"? Setting up a new PSN account only requires an email address verification.

I did have a typo there I meant "Age Verify" if you knew I meant that then here's my reply.
I thought the same thing until I tried to create a new account & be "From the UK". It then sent me to an Age Verification page & I backed out. So as a skeptic obviously like yourself I "Googled It" & then it came up from PlayStation about an Age Verification Pilot Program for New Accounts started in the UK & Ireland only.

I'm afraid to say that, despite our best efforts in the last few hundred years, the only places in Europe that still speak English as a first or official language remain the United Kingdom, Ireland - although it's a second language in Ireland - and Malta.

When signing up & picking my new PSN account "Region" there are the country choices to choose from. Some of those Countries have English (UK) as a choice as well as their Countries Main language on my deplorable American PS5. Those Countries being... Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, "Israel", Malta, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia & Sweden.

None of them, because unless you're physically moving your console to your new fake country, you'll still be sending and receiving data all the way across the Atlantic Ocean (plus however much distance within the US as well) - and everyone else in any Daily Races you race in can look forward to the effects of that.

After "Googling" a random Ping Detector online there is quite a bit of Ping difference in running the numbers between my area in the US & all those Non English speaking European Countries I can choose from with English (UK) as a choice on PS5. Most of those Countries I have as a choice are in the low to mid 100's for Ping. Do you think that will be enough Ping for people of your high standards to be able to deal me with in Daily Races?

 

[Famine]

Age Verification Pilot Program for New Accounts started in the UK & Ireland only

Huh. Weird.

Age verification frequently asked questions

Find answers to your age verification questions.

www.playstation.com

It says you can use a facial scan to estimate your age, which would be a good way to avoid any of the issues with personal data and phone numbers.

When signing up & picking my new PSN account "Region" there are the country choices to choose from. Some of those Countries have English (UK) as a choice as well as their Countries Main language on my deplorable American PS5. Those Countries being... Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, "Israel", Malta, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia & Sweden.

Okay. It won't matter.

After "Googling" a random Ping Detector online there is quite a bit of Ping difference in running the numbers between my area in the US & all those Non English speaking European Countries I can choose from with English (UK) as a choice on PS5. Most of those Countries I have as a choice are in the low to mid 100's for Ping. Do you think that will be enough Ping for people of your high standards to be able to deal me with in Daily Races?

So... it doesn't work like that.

The data has to leave your PS5, head across the Atlantic, out to the various consoles of the people you're racing, tell them where you are, then come back from all of their consoles, back across the Atlantic, and into your PS5 to tell you where they are.

Saying your console is in Belgium doesn't have any impact on it, because it isn't in Belgium. It's in the USA. No matter where you pick as the location of your European account, your console will still be where it really is, and the data still has to make that trip across the Atlantic.

Not only that, but you can't pick where the people you're racing against are. EMEA is a big region. You may find out you're racing someone in Saudi Arabia, someone in South Africa, and someone in Finland. Their data has to do the same trip.

It has nothing to do with "high standards", but the fact you're adding at least 90ms of lag (about the round-trip time from New York to London) to everyone...

I've posted this before, but here's what a Daily Race looks like in data transfer time in a typical EMEA lobby:

And here's what it looks like with one person on the US East Coast pretending to be from Europe:

Although in reality the blue lines actually all take the same path - probably westwards to Amsterdam, then Paris or more likely London, and then across the Atlantic in a shiny pipe made for high-speed financial transactions - but then you can't see the fact that there's 16 individual connections.

And since people from South Africa can play in EMEA, here's the data trip with one American pretending to be European and one South African who is supposed to be there:

Awesome stuff.

 

[FearNoGears]

So... it doesn't work like that.

And here's what it looks like with one person on the US East Coast pretending to be from Europe:

Yes very cool, thank you for replying & the detailed info.

Thank you for replying & the detailed info Famine

 

[peniu]

There may be some events locked to certain countries - examples I remember are TT for UK only and Olympic TT (I remember Cyprus not being able to play, I think Malta as well).

 

[i386]

Huh. Weird.

Age verification frequently asked questions

Find answers to your age verification questions.

www.playstation.com

It says you can use a facial scan to estimate your age, which would be a good way to avoid any of the issues with personal data and phone numbers.

Okay. It won't matter.

So... it doesn't work like that.

The data has to leave your PS5, head across the Atlantic, out to the various consoles of the people you're racing, tell them where you are, then come back from all of their consoles, back across the Atlantic, and into your PS5 to tell you where they are.

Saying your console is in Belgium doesn't have any impact on it, because it isn't in Belgium. It's in the USA. No matter where you pick as the location of your European account, your console will still be where it really is, and the data still has to make that trip across the Atlantic.

Not only that, but you can't pick where the people you're racing against are. EMEA is a big region. You may find out you're racing someone in Saudi Arabia, someone in South Africa, and someone in Finland. Their data has to do the same trip.

It has nothing to do with "high standards", but the fact you're adding at least 90ms of lag (about the round-trip time from New York to London) to everyone...

I've posted this before, but here's what a Daily Race looks like in data transfer time in a typical EMEA lobby:

And here's what it looks like with one person on the US East Coast pretending to be from Europe:

Although in reality the blue lines actually all take the same path - probably westwards to Amsterdam, then Paris or more likely London, and then across the Atlantic in a shiny pipe made for high-speed financial transactions - but then you can't see the fact that there's 16 individual connections.

And since people from South Africa can play in EMEA, here's the data trip with one American pretending to be European and one South African who is supposed to be there:
View attachment 1319442

Awesome stuff.

Do you have a technical background?

 

[Yard_Sale]

My EU account is “located” in the UK, with my Oceanic account in Australia. I’m physically located in California. There is some minor ping issues at times, but someone in region who has less than stellar internet will affect the lobby more than someone that is on the other side of the globe, IMO

 

[Famine]

There is some minor ping issues at times, but someone in region who has less than stellar internet will affect the lobby more than someone that is on the other side of the globe, IMO

Why not both?

Most people don't bother to optimise their connections, so most people who are region-hopping are causing both issues (for other people, rather than themselves; the people at fault rarely see the issues they cause) at once.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Why not both?

Most people don't bother to optimise their connections, so most people who are region-hopping are causing both issues (for other people, rather than themselves; the people at fault rarely see the issues they cause) at once.

I’m sure both are at play. Not that this is any kind of indication, but my IG connection bars are the same in United States as they are in any of my other accounts I galavant around on (3 bars). And this is with a hard-wired connection. From what I’ve seen, there has been some very minor ping issues that are no doubt caused by me - with very, very slight jumping of my opponents cars in my screen…but nothing of the potential race-ruining kind that you get from people who have 1-2 bar connections that are from Central America (when I’m competing on my main), which is most likely the result of the slower internet they probably have there.

Not to mention when some of the more prominent European streamers are in American lobbies, I don’t really notice any lag on their end either.

 

[Famine]

the slower internet they probably have there

Narrower. Internet "speed" is actually width - you can fit twice as many cars down a two-lane road at 50mph than you can a one-lane road at 50mph, but they're all going 50mph still. Similarly you can fit twice as much data down a 100Mbps pipe as a 50Mbps pipe, but it's still all going at 180,000 miles a second.

But bandwidth isn't specifically important over a certain (and very low) point; it's all about cable distance.

Just about all traffic between North and South America is submarine and is pretty close to hugging the coastlines except through the Gulf of Mexico where it's pretty straight.

The Great Circle distance from the most populous city in South America, Sao Paulo, to New York where many of the US east coast cables onshore is just over 4,750mi - which is already 70% further than the distance between any two points in the lower 48. SEABRAS-1, which carries a significant amount of the data traffic between NY and SP at 72Tbps, is just over 6,750mi.

Data travels at 120mi/ms, so every 60mi is 1ms additional Ping (there and back again). SEABRAS-1, as direct as it is, is 112ms minimum - 33ms more than if the tube tunnelled directly under the Amazon rainforest and through Montserrat- before heading out from New York to other parts of the USA (and Canada).

The west coast is worse. A 6,500mi cable called Curie heads from Valparaiso in Chile to El Segundo (and of course getting the traffic from the east side of South America to the west first). Except you can't use that - that's Google's own 72Tbps pipe - so add a few hundred miles and tens of ms for SAC up to Panama and the ancient PAC up to El Segundo. Figure on at best 190-200ms from LA to Sao Paulo.

By comparison, LA to London is - assuming a relatively direct overland pipe in the USA created under federal auspices (not an immediately safe assumption...) - about 6,000 miles. That's 100ms.

Seems better for you to connect to London than Chile then, so what's the problem?

Well, everyone in the NASA region already deals with 200ms of lag all the time if there's any play at all across the Darien Gap. In EMEA it's rare to have to deal with more than 100ms; most players are within 2,500 (data)miles of each other because our population centres are very close and our internet infrastructure is pretty direct (because socialism). Add in just one American pretending to be in Europe to a regular EMEA lobby and we all have to deal with +100ms of lag (also because socialism; the connection is as strong as the weakest link). This is normal for you, but crap for us.

We do still get players from Saudi Arabia (although they're not that far away, really), South Africa, and I presume some of the Russian players could be in Vladivostok. It's a less common situation, but it happens and yes it also adds 100ms to everyone. Add in just one American pretending to be in Europe to that situation and it could be unplayable.

Especially if someone's using mobile internet because "it works fine for Netflix" (oh to have a quid for each time I've read that).
Edit: Yeah

And it's wild to see Moscow to Sao Paulo is within the ballpark of LA to Sao Paulo, but not a surprise. Moscow to Lisbon is 80ms, then there's a 3,500-mile 100Tbps pipe right into Fortaleza (via Cape Verde) which would add ~60ms, and a cruise round the cost on SEABRAS-1 for ~200ms total. Looks like 230ms right now so not a bad estimate.


That is, of course, just in Dailies. In FIA races with fixed servers (in West Virginia, Sao Paulo, Amsterdam, Tokyo, and Sydney) it makes little difference.

And I do have accounts in different territories for information-gathering purposes. I don't race online with them - not for any particular reason about being thoughtful over other people's experience, but because I barely race online with my main...

 

[Meythia]

it works fine for Netflix"

This reminds me of Verizon:

 

[watto79]

Narrower. Internet "speed" is actually width - you can fit twice as many cars down a two-lane road at 50mph than you can a one-lane road at 50mph, but they're all going 50mph still. Similarly you can fit twice as much data down a 100Mbps pipe as a 50Mbps pipe, but it's still all going at 180,000 miles a second.

But bandwidth isn't specifically important over a certain (and very low) point; it's all about cable distance.

Just about all traffic between North and South America is submarine and is pretty close to hugging the coastlines except through the Gulf of Mexico where it's pretty straight.

The Great Circle distance from the most populous city in South America, Sao Paulo, to New York where many of the US east coast cables onshore is just over 4,750mi - which is already 70% further than the distance between any two points in the lower 48. SEABRAS-1, which carries a significant amount of the data traffic between NY and SP at 72Tbps, is just over 6,750mi.

Data travels at 120mi/ms, so every 60mi is 1ms additional Ping (there and back again). SEABRAS-1, as direct as it is, is 112ms minimum - 33ms more than if the tube tunnelled directly under the Amazon rainforest and through Montserrat- before heading out from New York to other parts of the USA (and Canada).

The west coast is worse. A 6,500mi cable called Curie heads from Valparaiso in Chile to El Segundo (and of course getting the traffic from the east side of South America to the west first). Except you can't use that - that's Google's own 72Tbps pipe - so add a few hundred miles and tens of ms for SAC up to Panama and the ancient PAC up to El Segundo. Figure on at best 190-200ms from LA to Sao Paulo.

By comparison, LA to London is - assuming a relatively direct overland pipe in the USA created under federal auspices (not an immediately safe assumption...) - about 6,000 miles. That's 100ms.

Seems better for you to connect to London than Chile then, so what's the problem?

Well, everyone in the NASA region already deals with 200ms of lag all the time if there's any play at all across the Darien Gap. In EMEA it's rare to have to deal with more than 100ms; most players are within 2,500 (data)miles of each other because our population centres are very close and our internet infrastructure is pretty direct (because socialism). Add in just one American pretending to be in Europe to a regular EMEA lobby and we all have to deal with +100ms of lag (also because socialism; the connection is as strong as the weakest link). This is normal for you, but crap for us.

We do still get players from Saudi Arabia (although they're not that far away, really), South Africa, and I presume some of the Russian players could be in Vladivostok. It's a less common situation, but it happens and yes it also adds 100ms to everyone. Add in just one American pretending to be in Europe to that situation and it could be unplayable.

Especially if someone's using mobile internet because "it works fine for Netflix" (oh to have a quid for each time I've read that).
Edit: Yeah

View attachment 1319542

And it's wild to see Moscow to Sao Paulo is within the ballpark of LA to Sao Paulo, but not a surprise. Moscow to Lisbon is 80ms, then there's a 3,500-mile 100Tbps pipe right into Fortaleza (via Cape Verde) which would add ~60ms, and a cruise round the cost on SEABRAS-1 for ~200ms total. Looks like 230ms right now so not a bad estimate.


That is, of course, just in Dailies. In FIA races with fixed servers (in West Virginia, Sao Paulo, Amsterdam, Tokyo, and Sydney) it makes little difference.

And I do have accounts in different territories for information-gathering purposes. I don't race online with them - not for any particular reason about being thoughtful over other people's experience, but because I barely race online with my main...

I read all that and it blows my mind that any of this works at all.

 

[FearNoGears]

Do you have a technical background?

I def wasn't comfortable verifying anything on a 2nd GT7 account from a random European country. I don't use my voice for TV searches or any biometrics for anything I don't need to use it for. The "Pilot Program" seems pretty new since even the "know it all's" didn't even know about it yet & try to chastise me over it.

 

[Famine]

The "Pilot Program" seems pretty new since even the "know it all's" didn't even know about it yet & try to chastise me over it.

 

[FearNoGears]

Why not both?

Most people don't bother to optimise their connections, so most people who are region-hopping are causing both issues (for other people, rather than themselves; the people at fault rarely see the issues they cause) at once.

Should I start suggesting to every Racer I see with 1 or 2 bars to optimize their connection & letting them know how their negligence is negatively affecting my GT7 experience? Oh wait it's 2024 & no one really cares about anything until it affects them...
I'm not Gaming on a Hotspot, I've got over 1gb service a $400 Nighthawk Modem & a $600 Nighthawk Router also with PS5 being hard wired. I've done my part...
If anything then GT7 shouldn't allow a low ping or poor connection under a certain threshold to Race Sport Mode...
While we're at it why don't we separate the Racers that don't use Racing Lines & Apex Markers while we're at it. As someone who uses no assists how is it ok for someone using every assist possible to be Racing in my same lobby &/or have a DR/SR near mine without some asterisk...
Now that's really something to have a bad attitude over Famine

 

[Talon16]

 

[Famine]

Should I start suggesting to every Racer I see with 1 or 2 bars to optimize their connection & letting them know how their negligence is negatively affecting my GT7 experience? Oh wait it's 2024 & no one really cares about anything until it affects them...
I'm not Gaming on a Hotspot, I've got over 1gb service a $400 Nighthawk Modem & a $600 Nighthawk Router also with PS5 being hard wired. I've done my part...
If anything then GT7 shouldn't allow a low ping or poor connection under a certain threshold to Race Sport Mode...
While we're at it why don't we separate the Racers that don't use Racing Lines & Apex Markers while we're at it. As someone who uses no assists how is it ok for someone using every assist possible to be Racing in my same lobby &/or have a DR/SR near mine without some asterisk...
Now that's really something to have a bad attitude over Famine

Why are you lashing out at me over something you apparently agree with and some things you're making up?

 

[TumeK5]

 

[FearNoGears]

Sorry Famine it's just that every time I see you comment on anyone's Post you're always demeaning, condescending & negative while having the bedside manner of Artificial Intelligence. With being as knowledgeable about these things that you are you could use your knowledge for good & be a little more personable than you have been. Maybe you're fed up with idiots I get it. But if you treat everyone like an idiot before you know that they really are then you are an issue not a real Moderator. This Community is about as good as it gets when it comes to video games. Let's not run people off & look for every chance to rub them the wrong way just because of a power trip. Thank you & I appreciate all the real info you're giving

 

[Famine]

Sorry Famine it's just that every time I see you comment on anyone's Post you're always demeaning, condescending & negative while having the bedside manner of Artificial Intelligence. With being as knowledgeable about these things that you are you could use your knowledge for good & be a little more personable than you have been. Maybe you're fed up with idiots I get it. But if you treat everyone like an idiot before you know that they really are then you are an issue not a real Moderator. This Community is about as good as it gets when it comes to video games. Let's not run people off & look for every chance to rub them the wrong way just because of a power trip. Thank you & I appreciate all the real info you're giving

Just as with the fact that, for some reason, you've twice decided I was attacking you personally in this thread, this is an entirely imagined tone from your entire six days here - through most of which I've tried to help you with an issue you apparently have, even though I don't think you should be doing it...

Please drop the victim complex. It will not serve you well to act like you're constantly under attack and reflexively attack other people for no reason.

 

[FPV MIC]

Sorry Famine it's just that every time I see you comment on anyone's Post you're always demeaning, condescending & negative while having the bedside manner of Artificial Intelligence. With being as knowledgeable about these things that you are you could use your knowledge for good & be a little more personable than you have been. Maybe you're fed up with idiots I get it. But if you treat everyone like an idiot before you know that they really are then you are an issue not a real Moderator. This Community is about as good as it gets when it comes to video games. Let's not run people off & look for every chance to rub them the wrong way just because of a power trip. Thank you & I appreciate all the real info you're giving

Your reading into it far to much. There's no demeaning, condescending or negativity in @Famine's posts, just hard facts.

 

[FearNoGears]

Why are you lashing out at me over something you apparently agree with and some things you're making up?

There you go again
Like this here...
1st - So now what is it I made up?
2nd - I don't agree & I don't have a problem with lesser fortunate Racers that have poor connection &/or location. I've not once ever commented on someone's poor connection bringing our whole lobby down. My extended comment was an example of something that we actually should be focused on.

You're the one who dislikes the thought & the math of GT7 Racers racing in lobbies on the other side of the world than they really are while subtly putting them & others down that do.
Passive Aggressive much?

Your reading into it far to much. There's no demeaning, condescending or negativity in @Famine's posts, just hard facts.

Thank you, FPV
I've read many many posts in my few days here & although I love Famine's ton of info it's his delivery system that is flawed.

 

[Famine]

1st - So now what is it I made up?

Firstly the fact that you were "chastised" for the UK's age verification - which you were not - and then all the weird elitist stuff that you seem to think is equivalent to giving everyone a tenth of a second of lag.

You're the one who dislikes the thought & the math of GT7 Racers racing in lobbies on the other side of the world than they really are while

I dislike it because it is deleterious to everyone's experience. The same as I dislike poorly optimised connections for the same reason and... hey, guess who wrote the pinned thread on how to optimise connections?

Would that be the same person who's helping you to do the thing that they also dislike.

subtly putting them & others down that do.

This is also made up. Any perceived slight is just that.

And again, I'm helping you to do it, which alone should be enough indication that you're reading something that's not there. But instead you'd rather go on the attack...

 

[FearNoGears]

Just as with the fact that, for some reason, you've twice decided I was attacking you personally in this thread, this is an entirely imagined tone from your entire six days here - through most of which I've tried to help you with an issue you apparently have, even though I don't think you should be doing it...

Please drop the victim complex. It will not serve you well to act like you're constantly under attack and reflexively attack other people for no reason.

I'm no victim & I don't play one on TV or Forums either. I haven't taken anything personal & I understand your point of view. Like i said i appreciate all your knowledge in these areas. Maybe you never learned this but it's notv what you say but how you say it. And that is flawed with your way of responding to people. I've read many of your Replys to various issues & comments & I haven't seen one yet with any positivity & all sounds like an automated response with no personal touch to it. Just like I said... You don't like people playing in different GT7 servers than their own. You didn't come right out & say that. You threw all the gear info out there while then throwing subtle jabs at people that do Race other GT7 servers. Maybe with you being a "Moderator" you should just actually Moderate & instead not Gaslight with your innuendos & feelings towards any issue you deem beneath you. Maybe as a Moderator don't comment on something that you know ahead of time will trigger your inner Karen. Thank you for all your data expertise Famine, unfortunately that's not in customer service.

 

[TumeK5]

So what is it you're trying to say? Are you grateful, toxic, or both?

 

[Famine]

I haven't taken anything personal

Give over. You're literally making stuff up to get huffy about.

throwing subtle jabs at people

This is also made up. Any perceived slight is just that.

Just because you like insulting other people needlessly doesn't mean that everyone else does. We don't all have your character.

Maybe with you being a "Moderator"

I'm an Administrator.

Not that it matters as I've done no moderation or administration yet. You just keep bringing it up as if it's relevant and then dunking in tropes about "power trips" (even though there's no "power" in it), which speaks volumes for your motives.

Gaslight ... Karen

And again you're being insulting for no reason (and not even using these terms correctly).

You have your answers. You have your help. Now drop the attitude, drop the attacks, and drop the persecution complex.