Online Racing Rules question

[rosckolove]

This can be found in GTPlanets set of (OLR) Online Racing Rules.

When you get 'locked up' in a group battle on the straights, you are not allowed to bump the driver in front of you in order to free yourself out of that situation. Stay behind that driver or move sideways as soon as there's sufficient room to do so.

So this raises a question. Is bump drafting allowed?

Say if me and another guy are running around the same lap times and we come upon another. Is the guy behind allowed to push the one in front of him in favor of catching up or pulling away?

EDIT-

I should have clarified that this would be in a sanctioned race with stewards, not some random online lobby.

(please no realism or anti ABS racing tire buffs please)

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Not sure of the OLR, but back when I used to host NASCAR Daytona rooms, or Indy for the fact, it was not only allowed, but encouraged. If you could hook up with someone and push them around the track without wrecking them, then it was fine. I had a friend I used to run with and we could hook up and run around Daytona like our cars were welded together and either pull away or catch up to the leaders without no problems. Not sure of GTPlanets OLR views this tho. I assume you are talking about the WRS. I only take part in the time trials there, never took part in any races there. Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[rosckolove]

I knew it would be encouraged in NASCAR.

But i was wondering if it was normally allowed in a regular circuit race.

Put the slightly faster guy up front, to pull the other guy. And then the guy behind pushes on the straights..

 

[Shoe67]

As long as the bump isn't aggressive (trying to spin someone out, move them out of the way, make a hole in traffic, etc) it should be fine

 

[TJC_69]

This can be found in GTPlanets set of (OLR) Online Racing Rules.

When you get 'locked up' in a group battle on the straights, you are not allowed to bump the driver in front of you in order to free yourself out of that situation. Stay behind that driver or move sideways as soon as there's sufficient room to do so.

So this raises a question. Is bump drafting allowed?

Say if me and another guy are running around the same lap times and we come upon another. Is the guy behind allowed to push the one in front of him in favor of catching up or pulling away?

EDIT-

I should have clarified that this would be in a sanctioned race with stewards, not some random online lobby.

(please no realism or anti ABS racing tire buffs please)

In a race where it's agreed from the start and everyone knows then sure .

But as you state , in an online lobby circuit race then I would guess it's frowned upon as you would already be aware , as the person in front of you would view is as an ' aggressive hurry up ' in most cases .

 

[rosckolove]

But as you state , in an online lobby circuit race then I would guess it's frowned upon as you would already be aware , as the person in front of you would view is as an ' aggressive hurry up ' in most cases .

This confuses me a bit

 

[TJC_69]

This confuses me a bit

How so ?

 

[Highlandor]

Each series etc is going to be different - only way to be sure of something like this is talk to the host / organsior or read the rules or post on that thread.

Some bumpdraft, others don't.

When contact is involved, don't take chances or presume, ask first - that's the only way to know what is right or wrong for that lobby / series...

If it doubt, always be submissive and don't make contact for any reason and always keep 2 wheels on track - that's a sign of a good, clean racer and will get you respect no matter what.

 

[Nicksfix]

Avoid the bump draft.

What may seem like an "innocent" bump by you could very well be considered a "harsh" bump of aggression by another ..... I/E - connectivity issues, lag, these things contribute to what could mean disaster to your fellow racer. You may have said that you "merely" bumped him, but from his standpoint, you rammed his 🤬 knocking him off the track, or into a wall. This may leave you thinking that your fellow racer just lost control of his car. When in fact, it was you who put him there.

Avoid it, for your own sake. Patience is a virtue, take your time, choose your attack point accordingly, pass cleanly.

 

[TJC_69]

Avoid the bump draft.

What may seem like an "innocent" bump by you could very well be considered a "harsh" bump of aggression by another ..... I/E - connectivity issues, lag, these things contribute to what could mean disaster to your fellow racer. You may have said that you "merely" bumped him, but from his standpoint, you rammed his 🤬 knocking him off the track, or into a wall. This may leave you thinking that your fellow racer just lost control of his car. When in fact, it was you who put him there.

Avoid it, for your own sake. Patience is a virtue, take your time, choose your attack point accordingly, pass cleanly.

This also 👍

 

[rosckolove]

it wouldn't be random. it would be a strategy, known by the other person.

i just have to ask the host of the series if its allowed, and go from there.

 

[Nicksfix]

it wouldn't be random. it would be a strategy, known by the other person.

It's not really strategy when the worst case scenario unfolds before your eyes. Trust me, it has happened. I've been on both ends of the stick in this case. Fortunately for me, it was with long time friends who have been racing forever with each other and we know in our hearts it was not intentional, but the worst case scenario did happen.

You bump draft "your buddy", you send him into the path of a competitor(s), now you have just ruined the race for those who were involved.

Who's the goat in this melee ?

re-read what Sphinx has to say about the GTP OLR ----> here

 

[TJC_69]

It's not really strategy when the worst case scenario unfolds before your eyes. Trust me, it has happened. I've been on both ends of the stick in this case. Fortunately for me, it was with long time friends who have been racing forever with each other and we know in our hearts it was not intentional, but the worst case scenario did happen.

You bump draft "your buddy", you send him into the path of a competitor(s), now you have just ruined the race for those who were involved.

Who's the goat in this melee ?

re-read what Sphinx has to say about the GTP OLR ----> here

05: Rules Governing Car Contact:
B:
Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited

And

11: Group Battle:
D:
When you get 'locked up' in a group battle on the straights, you are not allowed to bump the driver in front of you in order to free yourself out of that situation. Stay behind that driver or move sideways as soon as there's sufficient room to do so.

In Gamesta's series that I ran in , we followed standard OLR rules to the letter . Never bump drafted etc ...

But

Highlandor
Each series etc is going to be different ...

Some bumpdraft, others don't

👍

 

[rosckolove]

I did mention bump drafting on the straight right?

i don't know who you race with but if that causes a problem. they probably shouldn't be entering any official races.

Send him into the path of a competitor? It clearly stated i couldn't do it in an already in progress position battle so....... It would just be the two of us man.

Doing this could take seconds off a lap time, seconds that couldn't be made up by someone not doing it. So, it IS a strategy.

Why would i re-read the OLR? can you point out any part of it that i have yet to consider?

In case you guys aren't clear on what the rules actually say, the act of bump drafting is not covered, or even lightly skimmed over in any way. NOTHING in the rules has anything to do with bump drafting in a straight line (obviously on a circuit this would be the only safe time to do it, so i will assume that its obvious, i hope)

So. Asking the official thats hosting the race, is the best thing to do, since nothing being discussed here is going to help.

Although even without asking if nothing negative happens from it, and its not stated in any rules. The two people taking advantage of this couldn't really be penalized.

 

[mcfizzle]

My thoughts are:

1: bump drafting is acceptable on ovals and a few road tracks like on Mulsanne and the straight at Nordschleife. Make sure this follows the rules of the league or host you are racing with because they may differ.

2: bump drafting should be disengaged early enough to allow safe corner entry by all drivers. This will vary track by track. Understand that if you are bump drafting entering a corner and the lead car wrecks than you are at fault for causing an avoidable accident.

3: know the people you are racing with and the rules of the league/host. If you are unsure then ask. If you have never raced with the driver in question then find out what they are comfortable with and follow their wishes. Understand that not every driver is okay with it or comfortable in that situation and move on. Understand that it will be looked down on at certain locations ie. road circuits in general, bends in the road, the end of the down hill straight at Motegi etc.

4: know the limitations of what you, your car, and others can handle. Understand what type of corner entry you are approaching. If a driver tries to disengage the bump draft then respect that.

When you get 'locked up' in a group battle on the straights, you are not allowed to bump the driver in front of you in order to free yourself out of that situation. Stay behind that driver or move sideways as soon as there's sufficient room to do so.

I think common sense has to be used here. This is not referring to bump drafting. It is in my mind referring to a situation with let's say 3 cars on a road course. A is being followed directly by B and C is directly is to the left of A and B overlapping each by a bit. Car B shouldn't bump A to allow them both to complete the pass on C thus allowing B to move left. This could put all 3 cars in a potentially dangerous situation, especially near a corner.

 

[TJC_69]

I did mention bump drafting on the straight right?

i don't know who you race with but if that causes a problem. they probably shouldn't be entering any official races.

Send him into the path of a competitor? It clearly stated i couldn't do it in an already in progress position battle so....... It would just be the two of us man.

Doing this could take seconds off a lap time, seconds that couldn't be made up by someone not doing it. So, it IS a strategy.

Why would i re-read the OLR? can you point out any part of it that i have yet to consider?

In case you guys aren't clear on what the rules actually say, the act of bump drafting is not covered, or even lightly skimmed over in any way. NOTHING in the rules has anything to do with bump drafting in a straight line (obviously on a circuit this would be the only safe time to do it, so i will assume that its obvious, i hope)

So. Asking the official thats hosting the race, is the best thing to do, since nothing being discussed here is going to help.

rosckolove
Say if me and another guy are running around the same lap times and we come upon another. Is the guy behind allowed to push the one in front of him in favor of catching up or pulling away?

I thought I answered this already ?

05: Rules Governing Car Contact:
B:
When you get 'locked up' in a group battle on the straights, you are not allowed to bump the driver in front of you

11: Group Battle:
D:
Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited

How is that not helpful ?

Bump drafting is covered . Nobody bump drafts on a around corners on a circuit as far as I know .

Asking the host will be the best thing to do as you have said yes .

rosckolve
Although even without asking if nothing negative happens from it, and its not stated in any rules. The two people taking advantage of this couldn't really be penalized

So , you just wanted someone to back up what you were planning to do anyway ... Even if the host says no ? Right ?

Good luck with dodging the race stewards of your series in the replay procedures 👍

What a waste of time it's been commenting in this thread , thanks 👍

 

[tlsuth41]

TJC69 you are trolling right?

Rosckolove was very clear that he would do this only a straight and not affect the other car in a negative manner.

We bump draft in my room and are very considerate of the other driver. Only those who have been around a while and expecting the push are involved and it makes for some very fun times.

 

[rosckolove]

Sorry i didn't quote properly, but i'm sure you can get the gist of what i have typed out here.

You Said "When you get 'locked up' in a group battle on the straights, you are not allowed to bump the driver in front of you"

I'm not getting locked up in, or approaching a group battle, so it obviously doesn't apply.

You Said "Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited"

This clearly states "TURNS" and is to avoid people getting pushed off the track in a TURN. so it obviously doesn't apply.

So, bump drafting is not covered in any way shape or form.

You Said "So , you just wanted someone to back up what you were planning to do anyway ... Even if the host says no ? Right ?

You Said "Good luck with dodging the race stewards of your series in the replay procedures"

I actually started this thread wondering if anyone else had the bright idea. Maybe they have been through all this before. And dodging the race stewards for what reason, NOT breaking any of the OLR rules? And the "doing it anyway" comment I made, was kind of an after thought. Since its NOT covered in the rules.

You Said "What a waste of time it's been commenting in this thread , thanks"

I agree with you entirely 👍

 

[TJC_69]

Sorry i didn't quote properly, but i'm sure you can get the gist of what i have typed out here.

You Said "When you get 'locked up' in a group battle on the straights, you are not allowed to bump the driver in front of you"

I'm not getting locked up in a group battle, so it obviously doesn't apply.

You Said "Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited"

This clearly states "TURNS" and is to avoid people getting pushed off the track in a TURN. so it obviously doesn't apply. So, bump drafting is not covered in any way shape or form.

You Said "So , you just wanted someone to back up what you were planning to do anyway ... Even if the host says no ? Right ?

You Said "Good luck with dodging the race stewards of your series in the replay procedures"

I actually started this thread wondering if anyone else had the bright idea. Maybe they have been through all this before. And dodging the race stewards for what reason, NOT breaking any of the OLR rules?

You Said "What a waste of time it's been commenting in this thread , thanks"

I agree with you entirely 👍

Then I would get a mod to clarify the meaning of 'turns' in that sentence , because in the UK it doesn't mean what you guys use it for . I read it as taking turns to bump draft .

B:
Pushing other cars in turns ( taking turns to ) or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited

If it was written by an american , then you are correct . We call turns ' corners ' here .

So if my interpretation is incorrect then I apologise . 👍

 

[rosckolove]

Turns instead of corners..... really dude?

what did you think that "turns" meant, in the (OLR) that you quoted?

I'll just say "turncorners" from here on out, so people from every continent will understand me.

 

[TJC_69]

Turns instead of corners..... really dude?

what did you think that "turns" meant, in the (OLR) that you quoted?

I'll just say "turncorners" from here on out, so people from every continent will understand me.

Yep , nobody says turns here for deviations on a road or track . It's corners all the way

I read ' Pushing other cars in turns ' , as taking turns to push each others cars to gain an advantage in a bump draft scenario .

A corner is fairly universal i'd say ....

 

[rosckolove]

Corners it is.

I will try to remember.

 

[mcfizzle]

Just to clarify, most people will view bump drafting approaching/entering a corner the same as bumping in the corner. It is looked down on and can result in an accident or is used to disrupt the other driver's line and entry. Daytona is a different situation though.

 

[rosckolove]

I am going crazy i think.

It will only be done after a corner when the lead car is going straight/stable and is expecting it, and of course, it wouldn't be done leading into a corner, because that WOULD fall under the (OLR) rules, and i wouldn't have made a whole thread then.

The gain from bump drafting would no longer be a gain if people were pushing each other into the turncorners. _____________________________________________________________________________ i had to^^^

 

[mcfizzle]

You asked a question and I tried to answer it as clearly as possible so there was no confusion. I wasn't claiming you were trying to do anything wrong. Also, try to remember that this thread may help clarify things for other people who may see this at a later time and I was just trying to make sure I stated clearly what I meant.

 

[robiker]

05: Rules Governing Car Contact:


A:
Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.





06: Running into the car ahead of you:


A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.

I've interpreted these rules to mean that bump drafting is not allowed, as it involves intentional contact.

 

[rosckolove]

Well, i would say you had a good point but.... NASCAR. Those rules are just to promote clean driving and lessen the amount of accidents. And that section is mainly talking about corners, like the rest of them.

I have concluded its just fine to bump draft on a regular circuit, as long as both of you are willing to take the small risk of faster corner entry.

Unless the official hosting the race takes it upon him or her self to list it as a rule before the race.

 

[mcfizzle]

I've interpreted these rules to mean that bump drafting is not allowed, as it involves intentional contact.

Well, i would say you had a good point but.... NASCAR. Those rules are just to promote clean driving and lessen the amount of accidents. And that section is mainly talking about corners, like the rest of them.

I have concluded its just fine to bump draft on a regular circuit, as long as both of you are willing to take the small risk of faster corner entry.

Unless the official hosting the race takes it upon him or her self to list it as a rule before the race.

I think in general robiker is right that it is not allowed. These rules were written not just for racing series but for match making/lobby races and are there for clean and respectful racing and to reduce incidents, just like you say. But in the end it is up to the series organizers what is allowed/not allowed.

I know in the one WRS online race on an oval that I've done bump drafting was allowed. That series has some of the most respectful drivers you can find though along with people communicating beforehand what they were okay with, and there were no issues. I don't think I've ever seen bump drafting in that series on any other circuit though.

 

[rosckolove]

I understand what your saying.

But if its allowed in NASCAR, and it doesn't state anywhere a difference in rules between the two kinds of racing. You could absolutely not be punished for it unless it was listed as a rule in the series you were in, with or without asking before hand. It could be addressed later, or maybe looked down upon (why would it anyway?) but its something they neglected to cover as a rule. So you can't be punished.

 

[EDK]

When we developed the GTP OLR Rules and guidelines, this question did come up. We did not include or add language to specifically address it, but our general take on it was this -

Bump drafting IS allowed in situations where both drivers have a mutual understanding. That does not mean you would have needed to sign off in advance, but it does mean that if you decide to give someone a bump who was not expecting it, and they crash as a result, then these rules would apply -

05: Rules Governing Car Contact:


A:
Contacts and collisions must be avoided at all costs.

B:
Pushing other cars in turns or pushing them off the track is strictly prohibited.

C:
Leaning on other cars is strictly prohibited in any situation.



06: Running into the car ahead of you:


A:
The behind driver must take all necessary care and responsibility not to run into an ahead driver.

B:
In case you brake too late for a corner or partially lose control of your car, but can prevent an accident by steering into the dirt, grass or a wall, you are expected to do so.

C:
The ahead driver must not do any malicious or inappropriate braking or slowing. Leading cars MUST NOT EVER 'brake check' the car(s) behind them because they are following too closely. The ahead driver IS entitled to be slower or use longer and earlier braking zones than others. They are also entitled to turn in earlier or later and/or apex earlier or later.




07: Contact Concessions:


A:
If there’s contact between drivers that results in the guilty driver making up places on the innocent driver, the guilty driver should immediately allow the innocent driver to pass freely to re-establish their position. This rule should be observed, even if it means the guilty driver has to allow drivers not involved in the incident to pass while waiting for the driver they contacted.

B:
If the appropriate contact concession is carried out by the guilty driver then they may avoid or reduce the severity of any penalties that might otherwise apply.

C:
If the appropriate contact concession is not carried out by the guilty party then the usual penalties would apply.

D:
If you have to slow down to let the other player through, move out of the racing line first before you slow down. Coming to a full stop is not allowed, just continue at a lower pace until the other driver passes you again.

I don't see this being a really big issue on Daytona Oval, and probably not in the Indy Speedway. But if it's on a road course with a long straight, like Fuji, Daytona Road, or Indy Road, it's possible you might bump someone who was not expecting it too close to the braking zone, causing them to run deep. Even if they did not "crash", a behind driver would be subject to the normal contact concessions if they bumped the ahead driver and were able to pass as a result. They would need to yield the position.