Overpowered and Underpowered N Division Cars

  • Thread starter JTB10000
  • 20 comments
  • 5,332 views
JTB10000

JTB10000

1,443
United States
Texas
JoshsoJB
Gr.1-4 get a lot of attention every update but not once has PD adjusted the B.O.P. for N100-1000 since GTS's release. What are some over and underpowered N division cars that need to be balanced? Feel free to add power and weight predictions as well.

Off the top of my head:
UP
  • FIAT 500 - For it to be competitive in N100, it could use another 200% power boost to bring it to around 70-80hp. PD should also give it a custom transmission like they've done in Sport Mode.
  • Volkswagon SambaBus - It's powerful enough but also needs a custom gearbox.
  • BMW M3 Sport Evolution
  • Mazda Atenza Sedan XD L Package
OP
  • Porsche 911 GT3 RS
  • BMW M4 Coupe
  • KTM X-BOW
  • Ford GT40
  • Ferrari LaFerrari
  • Alpine A110 Premiere Edition
  • Skyline GT-R V-spec II (R32) 1994 (I think)
  • Ferrari F40
What's weird is that they're consistently OP and UP in whatever category they can be in.
 
The problem is the classes in which some of them are put, not the vehicles themselves. Please PD, do not force-BoP the road cars. They are the last thing that still has me playing the game because they still have some degree of realistic performance figures. If they start trying to make Group N like Group 3 or Group 1, with their ridiculous BoPs, I'm done.
 
warp9engage
The problem is the classes in which some of them are put, not the vehicles themselves. Please PD, do not force-BoP the road cars. They are the last thing that still has me playing the game because they still have some degree of realistic performance figures. If they start trying to make Group N like Group 3 or Group 1, with their ridiculous BoPs, I'm done.
Click to expand...
I might being understanding this wrong but the N cars have the option to be BOP'd just like the Gr. cars.

And I understand Gr. 1 but what's ridiculous about how Gr. 3 is balanced? Seems realistic to me.
 
JTB10000
I might being understanding this wrong but the N cars have the option to be BOP'd just like the Gr. cars.

And I understand Gr. 1 but what's ridiculous about how Gr. 3 is balanced? Seems realistic to me.
Click to expand...

The option to BoP them. I'm fine with that. What I got from your post, maybe erroneously, is that you want to BoP the car's stock forms. I don't want that. Move them around to other classes according to their performance level instead of their horsepower, but don't go adding weight to some, reducing power to others and effectively killing each car's uniqueness, by default. The cars would stop being Porsches, Ferraris or Chevrolets and just be Group N cars with shells of their real-life counterparts, like it happens with Group 1.

Group 3 has less of a problem because it's largely comprised of GT3 cars, which naturally run together. Still, the 911 RSR is not a GT3 car, but a GTE. Same goes for the newly added Toyota Supra GR. They should be 2-3 seconds a lap faster, especially considering some GT3s in GTS are of older specification. I was surprised when they got the RSR, with the new faster regulations in fact, instead of the 911 R GT3.
 
warp9engage
The problem is the classes in which some of them are put, not the vehicles themselves. Please PD, do not force-BoP the road cars. They are the last thing that still has me playing the game because they still have some degree of realistic performance figures. If they start trying to make Group N like Group 3 or Group 1, with their ridiculous BoPs, I'm done.
Click to expand...
I'm not following you here, you do realize that to race car equally you need some sort of equalizer and thats what BOP is. LeMans gte cars (the real one) had BOP on them to keep them competitive. I'm not sure whats unrealistic here ?
 
RX-7_FD3S
I'm not following you here, you do realize that to race car equally you need some sort of equalizer and thats what BOP is. LeMans gte cars (the real one) had BOP on them to keep them competitive. I'm not sure whats unrealistic here ?
Click to expand...
I think what he's getting at is that while BoP is a natural course of action for race cars (GT3/GTD/GTLM/GTE already has this for a while, and now even LMP1 has it this year in terms of Equivalence of Technology), in road cars BoP kills the car.

For example, an RX-7 is known to be an agile and lightweight car for its class, whereas the Supra is a big, bulky, but powerful grand tourer. If you BoP the Supra and the RX-7, they would feel almost the same because of how BoP messes around their hp and weight values. This doesn't matter in race cars because they are created within a strict set of regulations that would produce similar cars so that they'll be competitive with one another. Saying that these cars are specifically designed around BoP isn't a far fetch either, so that their core characteristics doesn't change much with every BoP arrangement made to them (a crucial part of a car nowadays because the ACO adjusts BoP per race). Also GT3 cars feel pretty dead already personality-wise anyway so you can't kill them again
 
RX-7_FD3S
I'm not following you here, you do realize that to race car equally you need some sort of equalizer and thats what BOP is. LeMans gte cars (the real one) had BOP on them to keep them competitive. I'm not sure whats unrealistic here ?
Click to expand...

What @Alpha Cipher said. I don't have a problem with cars that are BoP'd in real-life, like GT3s. I am against BoP in road cars because road cars are all about individuality, unique performance characteristics. To BoP road cars to drive together, effectively eliminates what defines each one of those road cars in the first place.
 
warp9engage
The problem is the classes in which some of them are put, not the vehicles themselves. Please PD, do not force-BoP the road cars. They are the last thing that still has me playing the game because they still have some degree of realistic performance figures. If they start trying to make Group N like Group 3 or Group 1, with their ridiculous BoPs, I'm done.
Click to expand...
You do realise that without BoP’d N-groups you could only have one make races with road cars?

While it’s perfectly alright that you don’t want any N-class races between different cars, I tend to think that many people actually would enjoy that. Hence the need for a better BoP in the N-classes.

So far PD did not put a lot of effort in this as it’s not a priority for the FIA championship, and they seem to have just slapped on a basic BoP with similar power & weight settings for each car, which balances them to a certain extent, but some cars just have inherent advantages. That’s why, so far, it’s pretty flawed.
 
snowgt
You do realise that without BoP’d N-groups you could only have one make races with road cars?

While it’s perfectly alright that you don’t want any N-class races between different cars, I tend to think that many people actually would enjoy that. Hence the need for a better BoP in the N-classes.

So far PD did not put a lot of effort in this as it’s not a priority for the FIA championship, and they seem to have just slapped on a basic BoP with similar power & weight settings for each car, which balances them to a certain extent, but some cars just have inherent advantages. That’s why, so far, it’s pretty flawed.
Click to expand...

You aren't seeing my point. I'm okay with having BoP, in road cars, as long as it's optional. Like it currently is. I just want to be able to drive road cars with unadulterated performance. I don't race online, so I can't say anything about BoP options being good or not. Then again, that's not what I'm arguing for. I don't want to take the optional BoP away. I just don't want to have BoP forced onto me, in road cars, in single-player. In the Group 1 class, for example, I have a certain degree of BoP enforced upon me, the kind that somehow allows a Group C to be competitive against a modern LMP1 around any track. I can't change that BoP, it's hard-coded in. I don't want hard-coded BoP for road cars. Optional BoP, fine by me. Altering the cars' default performance for the sake of 'balance' is a no-no. If PD do that, there will effectively be no real cars left in the game. Cars that look like the real deal, but do not behave as such underneath.
 
warp9engage
You aren't seeing my point. I'm okay with having BoP, in road cars, as long as it's optional. Like it currently is. I just want to be able to drive road cars with unadulterated performance. I don't race online, so I can't say anything about BoP options being good or not. Then again, that's not what I'm arguing for. I don't want to take the optional BoP away. I just don't want to have BoP forced onto me, in road cars, in single-player. In the Group 1 class, for example, I have a certain degree of BoP enforced upon me, the kind that somehow allows a Group C to be competitive against a modern LMP1 around any track. I can't change that BoP, it's hard-coded in. I don't want hard-coded BoP for road cars. Optional BoP, fine by me. Altering the cars' default performance for the sake of 'balance' is a no-no. If PD do that, there will effectively be no real cars left in the game. Cars that look like the real deal, but do not behave as such underneath.
Click to expand...
For single-player, I don’t think you need to be worried. PD will not take away the possibility to race as you want. The BoP is just a tool to provide fair online racing.
 
Overpowered cars (based on cars with the fastest top speeds of their class, tested at Le Mans, fully stock with only Racing: Super Soft tires):

N100:
Mazda Roadster S (ND) '15 (220km/h, 136.7mph)

N200:
Alfa Romeo 4C Launch Edition '14 (265km/h, 164.6mph)

N300:
Toyota Supra RZ '97 (292km/h, 181.4mph)

N400:
Lamborghini Countach LP 400 '74 (323km/h, 200.7mph)

N500:
Chevrolet Corvette (C7) Stingray '14 (339km/h, 210.6mph)

N600:
Ford GT '06 (360km/h, 223.7mph)

N700:
Lamborghini Aventador LP 700-4 '11 (365km/h, 226.8mph)

N800:
Aston Martin One-77 '11 (376km/h, 233.6mph)

N1000:
Ferrari LaFerrari '13 (403km/h, 250.4mph)

Underpowered cars:

N100:
Fiat 500 F '68 (should be classified under Gr. X instead)

N200:
Mazda Atenza Sedan XD L Package '15 (211km/h, 131.1mph)

N300:
Chevrolet Corvette (C3) Stingray Convertible '69 (225km/h, 139.8mph)

N400:
Ford Mustang Mach 1 '71 (183km/h, 113.7mph) (Surprisingly the weakest cars in N200 and N300 are faster than this, which is strange...)

N500:
Shelby Cobra 427 S/C '66 (241km/h, 149.8mph)

N600:
Lamborghini Diablo GT '00 (305km/h, 189.5mph)

N700:
Chevrolet Chris Holstrom Concepts Nova LS9 '67 (335km/h, 208.2mph)

N800:
Aston Martin Vulcan '16 (336km/h, 208.8mph)

N1000:
Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '09 (387km/h, 240.5mph)
 
Yeah, N classes in GT... just ditch them completely. The way they're done makes them completely useless. It just takes power into accountand nothing else. If the car has between X50-100 and X49 ch, it will be in NX00 class. That means you can have a 245hp 800kg mid engine car in N200 and a 250hp 1600kg FF car in N300. Obviously this can't work properly.

It's a shame since there are groups or cars which are pretty close in lap times without BoP spread out into different classes.
 
The way Project CARS 2 manages its cars is much better. LMP1s are in LMP1 and are BoP'd towards each other. Same goes for Group C, GT3, GTE and so on. Road cars are also done much better. There's no sense in applying BoP to road cars, they aren't BoP'd in real-life. However, instead of just looking at the horsepower figure of a car, which doesn't tell the whole story, SMS builds the cars as close to real-life as possible, then they put them doing in-game laps around a test-track. Average lap-times told them how many classes were required and which cars went to each class. A much more comprehensive method of distribution. Take the Porsche 911 GT3 RS as an example. In GTS, the car is, apparently, mid-tier. It has 500 hp, so it went into the N500 class. However, anyone who knows cars can tell you that a basic Corvette Stingray and a Camaro SS are not even close to being a match for what the Porsche can do. In fact, the Porsche can beat cars far more powerful than it, with 100 or even 200 more horsepower, it's practically a street-legal race car. It's no surprise, when using the PCARS 2 method, the Porsche scored a little higher than it did in GTS. It's in Road B, the second most powerful road car class in that game. It's in the same class as the Ferrari Enzo, the Lamborghini Aventador and the Lamborghini Veneno (which are also in GTS). Also curiously, the Aston Martin DB11, which is an N600 car, above the Porsche, in GTS, is only Road D in PCARS 2. And yes, the DB11 in PCARS 2 is the same spec as the one in GTS.
 
warp9engage
The way Project CARS 2 manages its cars is much better. LMP1s are in LMP1 and are BoP'd towards each other. Same goes for Group C, GT3, GTE and so on. Road cars are also done much better. There's no sense in applying BoP to road cars, they aren't BoP'd in real-life. However, instead of just looking at the horsepower figure of a car, which doesn't tell the whole story, SMS builds the cars as close to real-life as possible, then they put them doing in-game laps around a test-track. Average lap-times told them how many classes were required and which cars went to each class. A much more comprehensive method of distribution. Take the Porsche 911 GT3 RS as an example. In GTS, the car is, apparently, mid-tier. It has 500 hp, so it went into the N500 class. However, anyone who knows cars can tell you that a basic Corvette Stingray and a Camaro SS are not even close to being a match for what the Porsche can do. In fact, the Porsche can beat cars far more powerful than it, with 100 or even 200 more horsepower, it's practically a street-legal race car. It's no surprise, when using the PCARS 2 method, the Porsche scored a little higher than it did in GTS. It's in Road B, the second most powerful road car class in that game. It's in the same class as the Ferrari Enzo, the Lamborghini Aventador and the Lamborghini Veneno (which are also in GTS). Also curiously, the Aston Martin DB11, which is an N600 car, above the Porsche, in GTS, is only Road D in PCARS 2. And yes, the DB11 in PCARS 2 is the same spec as the one in GTS.
Click to expand...
I only have PC1 but they even have classes like "70's Formula 1" and the like. If the cars cannot be classed by the regulations they raced in because of technological improvements, they make their own class for those specific set of cars. They're not afraid to put even just one car in that specific class either, like how the Lotus 59 sits by itself in that class
 
There's a thread on the Forza side complaining about how come Lexus isnt in the game and yet they're in GT Sport.

Since we already have the RC-F and the LC500, do you think the Forza community is missing out on much?

With the addition of the Vantage S and DB11 and the Jaguar F-Type, these are the vastly overweight under-performaners... there's no reason to be a tug boat captain of a 4,000lb coupe when you can just use a 911 GT3 and get it done.

I would suppose these are good cars for professionals to use... I gave the 911 a rest and I used these big fat luxury speedboats a go when I needed a challenge.
 
Should PD bring back the PP system from the previous games? Would be better if weight is also put into consideration instead of merely grouping cars according to power. (like Alfa Romeo 4C vs a whole bunch of hatchbacks in group N200, Ford F150 in group N400.
 
GBalao888
Overpowered cars (based on cars with the fastest top speeds of their class, tested at Le Mans, fully stock with only Racing: Super Soft tires):

N100:
Mazda Roadster S (ND) '15 (220km/h, 136.7mph)

N200:
Alfa Romeo 4C Launch Edition '14 (265km/h, 164.6mph)

N300:
Toyota Supra RZ '97 (292km/h, 181.4mph)

N400:
Lamborghini Countach LP 400 '74 (323km/h, 200.7mph)

N500:
Chevrolet Corvette (C7) Stingray '14 (339km/h, 210.6mph)

N600:
Ford GT '06 (360km/h, 223.7mph)

N700:
Lamborghini Aventador LP 700-4 '11 (365km/h, 226.8mph)

N800:
Aston Martin One-77 '11 (376km/h, 233.6mph)

N1000:
Ferrari LaFerrari '13 (403km/h, 250.4mph)

Underpowered cars:

N100:
Fiat 500 F '68 (should be classified under Gr. X instead)

N200:
Mazda Atenza Sedan XD L Package '15 (211km/h, 131.1mph)

N300:
Chevrolet Corvette (C3) Stingray Convertible '69 (225km/h, 139.8mph)

N400:
Ford Mustang Mach 1 '71 (183km/h, 113.7mph) (Surprisingly the weakest cars in N200 and N300 are faster than this, which is strange...)

N500:
Shelby Cobra 427 S/C '66 (241km/h, 149.8mph)

N600:
Lamborghini Diablo GT '00 (305km/h, 189.5mph)

N700:
Chevrolet Chris Holstrom Concepts Nova LS9 '67 (335km/h, 208.2mph)

N800:
Aston Martin Vulcan '16 (336km/h, 208.8mph)

N1000:
Bugatti Veyron 16.4 '09 (387km/h, 240.5mph)
Click to expand...
Past muscle cars, had gearing mainly for acceleration. Just enough to have a high trap speed over a 1/4mile. Not to mention aerodynamics in modern cars are far superior to 1960s' 70s Muscle cars.

A few exceptions like a classic Super Yenko Camaro, could do about 160mph. Again, gearing is the key.
 
GBalao888
Ford Mustang Mach 1 '71 (183km/h, 113.7mph) (Surprisingly the weakest cars in N200 and N300 are faster than this, which is strange...)
Click to expand...

As 05XR8 stated above classic musclecars were mainly built to go fast in a straight line. I had a '67 Camaro with a 327 that I had to put slapper bars on to just get it to hook up and not spin the tires. And cornering with a leaf spring suspension meant a lot of body roll. Also here is an interesting article regarding HP ratings for cars such as the Mach 1 you mentioned and more modern cars. https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2013/08/13/horsepower.

Maybe the previous PP system would be better for matching different cars in the N classes. I guess we'll get our answer later this week with the N300 Daily race coming up. I'm really looking forward to this as it will be the first time we get to race these cars in a daily without it being a one-make. I hope we see more of these as an alternative to the usual GR1-4 classes.
 
I think on many older pony and muscle cars, you could order other diff ratios as an option. Don't know if they were successful though.
 

Latest Posts

Back