Open Online Racing HP capping...

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I've got to be honest. I have avoided making a thread about this, mostly because I greatly enjoy GT5 and I'm tired of people knocking it. I would hate to join the crowd. However, I find this more of a rant about the 'those guys' that make up the large segment of open lobby races, not really against GT.

Something that REALLY burns my arse is the way you cannot FIND a 200hp race. You can't find a 300hp race. You cant find a 400hp race. Why? Because every single host is so freaking afraid that their car might get outdone. So... what do you see? You see 324.563 hp. (I exaggerate for effect) They do this almost always because they want to have their car at the VERY PEAK of the hp cap. Heaven forbid if they have a 374hp car, that they make a 400hp race. They have to cap it at 375 (or even 374), and often label it a 350hp race. Heck, run down the open lobby and see for yourself. I've even gotten to the point that on half of them, I can pick out the car that the host is using, just by the HP cap.

Sure, there are some valid times I see this occuring. If the race was named "x2010 only race" and had the hp cap at 1557, clearly the host is trying to establish a one-make race. Thats fine. And the title can reflect the specific taste the race is after. I can also see a 400hp limit getting knocked up to 401 because someone really wants to use their favorite car and they cant tune it below the 401. (Though, personally I would love trying to take a favorite car in a 500hp class even if 99 hp behind. The loss wouldnt hurt so much, and the win would be infinitely more gratifying.)

Unfortunately, this makes up a very small segment of these 'oddly chosen' hp or weight limitations. Sure enough, the host is almost always sitting on the peak hp for the limitation, and right on the weight minimum.

Are we really that insecure about our tuning or our racing ability that we have to ensure that NOONE can have better power-to-weight than us?

I will say that it wont stop me from joining. Sometimes I can dominate the host, and toss a wrench in their plans, and sometimes I walk away with my arse in my hands, tail between legs.

Frankly, I dont give a darn if I lose. Im not advocating some sort of sissy 'its how you play the game' mentality. If I lost, then I realize I am doing something wrong. Either I bought and built a car that cannot stand up to other people in the segment, or my driving in general is inferior and needs improvement, or maybe my experience with the specific vehicle I was driving isn't up to par yet.

If I always dominated power-to-weight, then it would great reduce my ability to get better, AND it would lose a lot of playability. I find myself having a lot more fun laughing with a group of drivers as I trail a half-lap behind in a clean, well matched race... rather than leading in a group of grief filled hotheads.

I dont know, I dont think that the answer lays in any change by PD. I suppose its something that can only be found in establishing your own racing circles with people that enjoy more than winning. The people that want to win the clubman cup with the x2010 can form there own and all argue over hp caps being set to their cars.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that gets a chuckle over the 'host-setting-limitations-to-their-car' races as they peruse the open lobby looking for one to join. But honestly, are they really enjoying themselves. It puzzles me that these individuals make up the majority.

I suppose I'm lucky to have found this community, that values hearty, clean racing.

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It makes me chuckle to see the majority of open lobby races have odd hp values (such as 559hp) rather than setting the room up for 600hp cap. Hosts must be very insecure to set limitations so that their car is at the top of the power-to-weight ratio.
 
Well, one of the problems with setting power limits on an even number is the fact that the game doesn't allow it. You can't set a 300hp race, it has to be 305hp. You can't set a 400hp race, it has to be 404hp. No 350hp, has to be 354. Oddly, I think 600hp is allowed, but that's an exception. It might not necessarily be the host stacking the cards in his favor as much as the game not allowing him to set the parameters to the exact class he wants to acheive.

The real problem with only restricting by power and weight is that those two parameters alone can leave giant loopholes through which certain cars, which are too competetive, can enter. I was hosting a race last night where I had the restrictions: 404hp, 1200kg. These limits allow for a very wide range of cars to enter, but most importantly, very few race cars (I was only able to find 2, not counting rally cars, and their engines made them slow enough that street cars could keep up). I was pressured by the participants to drop the weight regs to 1100kg which allowed many race cars to enter. The race cars, for the most part, outperformed the road cars I was trying to limit the race to.

There really needs to be options for "No Race Cars", "DTM Only", "Pre-80's", "4WD only", etc. along with the basic class restrictions of weight and power. Maybe even an independant slider to give the power-to-weight range you want to let in. This way, a Caterham would be able to race against an STi without allowing overpowered Elises and race cars with obscene aerodynamics to steal the show. I'm not too hung up on the exact power to weight of the players in my room, but if there is one car which has 500hp/ton and everyone else has 250hp/ton, I would rather restrict that car than start the race with one player guaranteed a win.
 
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Personally I like racing lower hp cars, I've had servers set to 300 something and people would come in and tell me to raise it so they can race their fully modified cars...

Most people play this game online will just max all the tuning out and crank all the cars adjustments up has hard as they can, for some reason this makes them think they are "fast". All the "how real the physics is" and "technical detail" put into the "game" really means nothing when most people played it like NFS Underground.

It is kind of sad....
 
I've been doing 502bhp, with no limit on weight etc.
All I do is write in the chat box, no race cars no wings and anyone who tries to use a toms Toyota etc gets kicked.
I personally love to race all sorts of differant cars upto 500bhp and love having close races.
I don't care if I don't win as what's the point in having everyone leave the room because they get bored because of lack of competive racing?
So far it's been a very good class and although you get the odd person who bends the rules they soon realise they will get kicked for not playing by the rules!
 
I have an X2010 Carbon and to be honest I have more fun driving my fully modded Volvo 240GT Estate Wagon that makes 302hp around the Nurburgring. Why? It's just so damn smooth around the corners for such an odd car.

Of all the online races I join, I think I have come in first once. It is a game, its all about fun.
 
I always limit my lobbies to 394hp. This allows some good RM car competition. I've had lobbies full of Subarus, Mitsubishis, Silvias, integras. I think if the slider allowed more gradual settings the lobbies would be even more favoured.

The host should try and name the lobby accordingly and not deviate. Numerous times i've joined a lobby that says "Low hp racing" and enter to find FGTs and X2010s.
 
Agree with you man, I totally dislike that. The other day there was a guy a pink subaru beating everyone including me in the Ring, even with rest of us having 'better' cars (thats what he though). These guys adjust restrictions so that their car becomes unbeatable, unless you get the same car which is unlikely and in the given case they will change the restrictions and middle finger you again.
 
Some interesting comments in the opening thread.

I agree with some of the points he makes, I can't help thinking that a lot of the problems come through the lack of decent filtering for online. It is still very hard to plough your way through poorly labelled rooms to try and find one that suits what you are looking for.

Some sort of pre-filter would be welcome as intimated, one for RALLY, NASCAR, GROUP C, STOCK PRODUCTION, perhaps a few others too that would take you straight to all the rooms running these genres of car as a rule. Perhaps some permanent rooms with fixed tracks and fixed BHP bandings (by the hundred) at Prologue had, ones you just drop in anytime and they go as soon as you have enough of a grid to make a decently populated race.

Another issue around online which spoils the experience for me is often the idiots who end up hosting. You find a room that fits what you want, you enter, wait for it to load up, wait for the current race to finish and when it does as you set up your car the owner changes the rules, or the tracks. I think a rule change like this should be a voting thing, the host can propose a change and if the majority of the rest agree and vote with him then yes, fair enough.

From a personal perspective I was really irritated last night. I had bought an Escudo and wanted to try it out online. As you can imagine there are not too many rooms that cater for something with 1050 bhp but I found one that was called NO LIMITS FOR REAL RACERS running on Le Sarthe. Great I thought, entered it and waited while the race full of mega-powerful Group C and other Le Mans type cars finished. When it had I saw the one rule in place was a limit of 936bhp. I asked the room owner if he could raise it as I could not lower the Escudo to meet this threshold, I mean it's not like the difference between 200 and 300bhp after all and you don't really expect the Escudo to be at home on Le Mans anyway. But no, tough luck he said and went ahead. Irritating!

One final point about online associated with bhp thresholds. Most people mod their cars to within an inch of their lives and it throws things out of kilter. You might have a 650bhp Murcielago and tune it up to 860bhp for example but then you enter a room that has a 750bhp limit. Now it's a real hassle to go through all the kit you have and disable bits to try and make things fit - often against the clock before the next race starts. What I would like to see online is a figure that shows the range of performance open for each car - so with the Lambo example that would show 650 - 860. I enter this car in a 750 race and there is a MAKE FIT button, I click this and it is a shortcut to automatically strip the car down to get as close to the limit for that room as possible. Quick, easy and when I exit the race my car remains as it was before, I do not have to go back and re-equip things.
 
My Ford GT LR Race Car Spec II went from 597ch to 601ch in one. All by itself :grumpy:
 
What's the matter here ? I dont get it, if it's set to 405 HP tune your car so that it haves 405 HP. Air filter for example is a good way to manage your PS.

I usually race with the same car in he 280 to 350 HP race then from 350 to 460~ again the same car with some power tweak and after again etc..

I really dont see the problem here, you're just making one.
 
All of these posts are reflective of phenominal opinions and great points. While I haven't yet raced with anyone from GTP, I look forward to the opportunity. It's clear that people are far more interested in the enjoyment of the driving and the experience rather than fanagling a top seat.
 
Personally I want to see power and weight limits removed and power to weight ratio ranges introduced. Would make a huge difference.
 
RX-7_FD3S
What's the matter here ? I dont get it, if it's set to 405 HP tune your car so that it haves 405 HP. Air filter for example is a good way to manage your PS.

I usually race with the same car in he 280 to 350 HP race then from 350 to 460~ again the same car with some power tweak and after again etc..

I really dont see the problem here, you're just making one.
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No, I'm not creating one at all. The issue isnt mine, what I was saying in my OP is that hosts tend to set limitations based rigidly upon their car. Instead of a more generic, or open setting. It creates a bias rather than objective limitation.

I still enter the races... I am just amused at their insecurity.
 
Keshian
The host should try and name the lobby accordingly and not deviate. Numerous times i've joined a lobby that says "Low hp racing" and enter to find FGTs and X2010s.
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That's PD. Can't change room comments, and sometimes the host changes. Things happen, people want to race something different. It would be a pain to leave just to change the room title.

jcmc
Some sort of pre-filter would be welcome as intimated, one for RALLY, NASCAR, GROUP C, STOCK PRODUCTION, perhaps a few others too that would take you straight to all the rooms running these genres of car as a rule. Perhaps some permanent rooms with fixed tracks and fixed BHP bandings (by the hundred) at Prologue had, ones you just drop in anytime and they go as soon as you have enough of a grid to make a decently populated race.
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Yes, this, PP, and garage sharing with unlimited favorites.

Another issue around online which spoils the experience for me is often the idiots who end up hosting. You find a room that fits what you want, you enter, wait for it to load up, wait for the current race to finish and when it does as you set up your car the owner changes the rules, or the tracks. I think a rule change like this should be a voting thing, the host can propose a change and if the majority of the rest agree and vote with him then yes, fair enough.
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Disagree there. Host should be in control. Some NFS game had a vote like system and it was terrible.

Make a room if you don't like what's available, IMO.

One final point about online associated with bhp thresholds. Most people mod their cars to within an inch of their lives and it throws things out of kilter. You might have a 650bhp Murcielago and tune it up to 860bhp for example but then you enter a room that has a 750bhp limit. Now it's a real hassle to go through all the kit you have and disable bits to try and make things fit - often against the clock before the next race starts. What I would like to see online is a figure that shows the range of performance open for each car - so with the Lambo example that would show 650 - 860. I enter this car in a 750 race and there is a MAKE FIT button, I click this and it is a shortcut to automatically strip the car down to get as close to the limit for that room as possible. Quick, easy and when I exit the race my car remains as it was before, I do not have to go back and re-equip things.
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Is it really that bad? I'm more annoyed that I need to buy the stupid upgrades and that some can't be removed. Tires are especially expensive. Most rooms are Racing Soft yes, but sometimes you find that gem of a room that uses sports, or even comfort tires.
 
nasanu
Personally I want to see power and weight limits removed and power to weight ratio ranges introduced. Would make a huge difference.
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+100

THIS is the way it should have been done in the first place and the ONLY way that we'll ever be able to truly control the room for competative races amongst a variety of car types.

While having more options such as drivetrain type and car class would be great, Power / Weight ratio needs to be #1 on the list.
 
dougdoberman
+100

THIS is the way it should have been done in the first place and the ONLY way that we'll ever be able to truly control the room for competative races amongst a variety of car types.

While having more options such as drivetrain type and car class would be great, Power / Weight ratio needs to be #1 on the list.
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Agreed, together with some easy checkboxes/dropdown lists for everything else like: Aeroparts, country, drivetrain, year.
 
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