Original Porsche 911 versus BMW 2002

[eiriksmil]

You get that with anything though. Technically a Skoda Octavia is the same as an Audi TT, yet I'm pretty sure the TT is more expensive

Don't let the underpinnings fool ya. Way different cars, the Audi is so much more low and stiff compared to a Golf or Octavia

 

[TheCracker]

But then... how many cars go around with lights and badges covered up? It's all very well saying they look similar, but out on the road even the average person on the street will be able to tell the difference, because the Cayenne does have Porsche badges and distinguishing features, and the Touareg does look similar to most other VWs.

Yes but what i'm saying is that apart from the 'family' detailing, you pay for a Porsche but what you are getting is no better than the VW it's based on. Not that that's a bad thing, the Touareg is a good car - so why pay a premium for the badge?

 

[Ram-Rod]

Regarding the 2002 vs. 911 - As someone who's owned a 911 in the past (1978 911 Turbo), it is a lot of work to maintain. The only reason I no longer have it is because of maintenance. I can't speak for BMW though (the only Beemer I've owned was a Z3, and the only other I've driven was a Z4). That said, it was in poor condition when I got it. It's previous owner pretty much left it outside for 5 years without use. It was trouble to get running, and at times, trouble to keep running. However, it was defiantly worth it when it did work.

Looking back on it, I wish I didn't sell it. I may get another in the future.

 

[homeforsummer]

Don't let the underpinnings fool ya. Way different cars, the Audi is so much more low and stiff compared to a Golf or Octavia

I know I was just using an extreme example to make a point. They're effectively built on the same platform, though you're right, there are significant differences.

I'd definitely take the TT myself, though!

Yes but what i'm saying is that apart from the 'family' detailing, you pay for a Porsche but what you are getting is no better than the VW it's based on. Not that that's a bad thing, the Touareg is a good car - so why pay a premium for the badge?

Because it is a Porsche. And that does make the difference. Not to mention, the Porsche has been engineered by Porsche and offers (according to the press) better handling and a different interior. "Better" is in the eye of the beholder, really, and for those willing to pay the premium (and it's still not bad value, especially next to the rest of the Porsche range) the Porsche offers more.

 

[neanderthal]

You're never going to mistake a TT for an Octavia though are you. Cover the lights and badges on a Touareg or a Cayenne and you'd be pushed to tell the difference.

Cover just about anything one them and i could probably still tell which one was which.

One is just plain hideous (the more expensive one that is based on the cheaper one) while one just looks right. And doesn't have a badge that makes you do a double take. And throw up in your mouth just a little at the besmirching of a storied brand.

I detest Porsche snobs, but even I stop at the Cayenne.

It had done wonders for thier bottom line though.

 

[TheCracker]

Because it is a Porsche. And that does make the difference. Not to mention, the Porsche has been engineered by Porsche and offers (according to the press) better handling and a different interior. "Better" is in the eye of the beholder, really, and for those willing to pay the premium (and it's still not bad value, especially next to the rest of the Porsche range) the Porsche offers more.

It may have marginal better handling than the VW version, but do you really need that on a slow two tonne SUV? - Porsche tuned handling might make the Cayenne Turbo S or even GTS a better option over the VW's V10 TDi - but on a diesel base model? It really is just the worst kind of badge snobbery.

 

[homeforsummer]

It may have marginal better handling than the VW version, but do you really need that on a slow two tonne SUV?

To take your question and turn it back (again ), do you really need better handling in any car, apart from performance ones? Can some fat exec in a BMW 5 series really tell it handles better than a Saab 9-5? Or some dim teen with a fluffy steering wheel cover in a Ford Ka tell it handles better than a Micra? Probably not, but it's nice to know it's there for people who can tell the difference.

And when SUVs are getting as fast as they are now (let's face it, although you consider it slow, even the base model Cayenne is quicker than virtually all SUVs of 15 years ago), it inspires a little confidence to know it's actually capable of handling higher speeds.

Porsche tuned handling might make the Cayenne Turbo S or even GTS a better option over the VW's V10 TDi - but on a diesel base model? It really is just the worst kind of badge snobbery.

I have to disagree I'm afraid. There will be those who prefer the styling of the Porsche over the VW (they must exist, because I count myself in that group, actually), there may be those who've owned Porsches in the past and finally have an opportunity to carry their family or friends about in one too, and there may be those who enjoy their driving and don't want their practical family vehicle to be awful and wallowy to drive, yet also like the fact that it won't get single-figure MPG. It's perhaps a little unfair to criticise all owners as badge snobs just because they want a Porsche SUV.

If nobody wanted something that was that little bit better, then there wouldn't be a market for high-end SUVs, luxury cars, sports cars etc in the first place.

 

[TheCracker]

And when SUVs are getting as fast as they are now (let's face it, although you consider it slow, even the base model Cayenne is quicker than virtually all SUVs of 15 years ago), it inspires a little confidence to know it's actually capable of handling higher speeds.

....there may be those who've owned Porsches in the past and finally have an opportunity to carry their family or friends about in one too, and there may be those who enjoy their driving and don't want their practical family vehicle to be awful and wallowy to drive, yet also like the fact that it won't get single-figure MPG. It's perhaps a little unfair to criticise all owners as badge snobs just because they want a Porsche SUV.

If nobody wanted something that was that little bit better, then there wouldn't be a market for high-end SUVs, luxury cars, sports cars etc in the first place.

I'd agree with you if the majority a fair proportion a decent amount even a few any of these owners actually pushed their Cayennes to the point where the extra handling finesse came into play. I see Cayennes all the time but have never once seen one driven even remotely 'spiritedly'.

 

[Stotty]

I used to thrash the backside off the X5 at every opportunity... might have been a slush box equipped diesel, but with sports suspension and 19" wheels (and huge 45/40 profiles tyres) it would properly hussle down B roads... easily keeping up with most hot hatches.

The thought of a Cayenne Turbo on full re-heat down a country road does make me feel a bit uneasy though... similar performance to my 911 but double the weight = massive momentum and a huge crash if you miss judge a bend.

 

[Prosthetic]

My friends mom used to drive a X5 and then lease was up and they got a Cayenne. Apparently its awesome in the snow, and it makes a awesome noise. They don't have a base model so it does have turbo so it is properly quick. Also has top notch interior.

 

[Prosthetic]

My friends mom used to drive a X5 and then lease was up and they got a Cayenne. Apparently its awesome in the snow, and it makes a awesome noise. They don't have a base model so it does have turbo so it is properly quick. Also has top notch interior.

Their X5 was very meh.

Wow, I ment to edit not quote. Can a mod pweese edit?

 

[homeforsummer]

I'd agree with you if the majority a fair proportion a decent amount even a few any of these owners actually pushed their Cayennes to the point where the extra handling finesse came into play. I see Cayennes all the time but have never once seen one driven even remotely 'spiritedly'.

But again, how many proper sports cars do you see being driven 'spiritedly' anyway? Virtually the only time I see anything going quickly is on the motorway, or stepping sharply away from traffic lights, but that doesn't really count. Most Cayennes probably get driven no differently on the road than most 911s, so you could argue that a 911's handling finesse isn't too relevant either.

And my point still stands that because the cars are capable of those sort of speeds, it's nice to have a balanced chassis, good grip and so-on because people will inevitably go a little quickly for the conditions sometimes.

(To be honest, the only things I see being driven quickly are diesel VWs and hot hatches, all of whom seem to be on qualifying laps all the time. And even then, most people chicken out on the corners. I'm sure they find the performance awfully funny until they're pwned by a base model Fiesta on 13" wheels through the corners...)

Back on topic, remember that the VW isn't really the Cayenne's rival anyway. People are more likely to be choosing between a Cayenne and a Range Rover/ RR Sport, or an X5/6. The X5 sort of crosses the boundary a bit because you could also consider it a rival for the VW, the XC90 and the Merc M-class.

The Porsche is designed for those who want more. Yes, it's more expensive than the VW but that's missing the point. It does offer more than the VW, it's aimed at a different target market, and none of this still disguises that it's perhaps very appealing to the sort of buyer who owns a sports car already and wants the same experience in something that can haul the family.

 

[niky]

Doesn't stop me from not liking it... but having driven it, I do say it's quite special.

X5? Quick as a hot hatch? Never! I raced one up a mountainside and I was all over him in the turns (on stock suspension and tires, to boot).

Of course, once we hit open stretches of uphill, I couldn't see which way he went... And here I was grunting like a pig, tires squealing, wheel flailing, car working hard, and he was just gliding through those corners... slower, yeah, but man, I've never seen a truck go so nicely.

If only I had the money... a secondhand diesel X5 with decent rubber (even with "just" the 235 hp engine) is way up there on my list.