Original Track Redesigns - Good or Bad? [READ OP]

[ShiftingGears]

I don't understand why people want these original fantasy tracks to be more realistic. Don't they already have enough real world tracks to race on?

Most real world tracks are an awkward compromise of cheap real estate and modern safety. I dont have an issue with fantasy tracks resembling real life tracks. For instance Grindelwald reminds me of old grand prix circuits.

Something like Eiger Nordwand is just ridiculous though.

 

[05XR8]

Eiger Nordwand was more of a rally course. Using Super GT cars there was madness.

ANyway, look at Hockenheim. How long was that and Spa, Nurburgring, racing next to trees? Those tracks were redesgined as mentioned, for safety. Hockenheim was, moreso, redesigned for spectator viewing. Again, I see the potential in Sport Mode for more passing and better positoning of the Penalty zone(s).

Say Midfield returns. How it is in GT6, a PZ between the chicane/S-turn and tunnel, is about right. Probably wouldn't need a redesign.

Grand Valley T1 is almost like Lago's 180. It may need some length in the straight right after. Pretty tough to place a PZ anywhere on that track. the bridge might seem so(like St Croix), but it's not that long a straight.

 

[VXR]

Should the track be altered to suit E-Sports, though? Should it not be part of the challenge that the track is less than ideal? Give me Trial Mountain of old over something banal like Silverstone any day.

 

[dance1211]

We did, albeit briefly.

Ah, I didn't mean how cars drive on the track, I meant in the menus.

Nowhere in this section does it mention "Trial Mountain Circuit - Reverse" or the like. It's just something to think about.

 

[Garland]

The entire point of the Original Tracks was to be as realistic as was reasonable for their time periods. They were not meant to be sheer fantasy, they were meant to be tracks that could easily exist barring any practical circumstances (Eiger), because very real cars were driving on them. This is also why the City Tracks exist. Remember, the original Gran Turismo had only Original Tracks, and GT2 had just a few World Tracks, likely because they didn't want to fuss with licenses at the time.

Yes, this includes Seattle with all its crazy jumps. For what it's worth, the real life Seattle Circuit area has had major changes and would be a very different track if it was brought back.

That being said, maybe there should be something like the different versions of Fuji Speedway and Sarthe, though I don't know how you'd work that out "realistically" with things like Trial Mountain's elongated straights... oh well.

All this aside, what we really need to be talking about are things like Complex String.

 

[hairless_ape]

They can't be old tracks if they've been renovated.

That's like saying if grandma gets a face lift she reverts to infancy.

 

[mwoodski]

All this aside, what we really need to be talking about are things like Complex String.

Red Rock Valley.

 

[HarVee]

That's like saying if grandma gets a face lift she reverts to infancy.

No, ≠. Humans age differently than a race course.

You can't make an old person young. You can make an old track new.

 

[BrunusCL82]

I'm trying to imagine a modernized Seattle track. So much has changed in the second half of the circuit. The Kingdome is gone and the street to the south of it would be replaced with an elevated intersection around T-Mobile Park, then working your way around the entrance to the tunnel that replaced the viaduct, to a revamped waterfront.

Wouldn't the problem with the Seattle strip be the jumps and bumps? Are they still there? Otherwise, it will be crazy in Sport mode.

 

[ykiki]

Wouldn't the problem with the Seattle strip be the jumps and bumps? Are they still there? Otherwise, it will be crazy in Sport mode.

Yeah, you'd still have jumps going up James Street, but it could still be fun.

 

[Liquid]

For instance Grindelwald reminds me of old grand prix circuits.

Something like Eiger Nordwand is just ridiculous though.

Eiger Nordwand was more of a rally course. Using Super GT cars there was madness.

And not every track in the game, original or otherwise, has to be suitable for race cars. Some original tracks are created to be better suited for production car racing. A couple of standard Mazdas, BMWs or Alfas rolling around is tremendous fun.

And that's how it should be. Variety is the spice of life. You can have more than one type of racing and more than one type of track.

 

[ShiftingGears]

And not every track in the game, original or otherwise, has to be suitable for race cars. Some original tracks are created to be better suited for production car racing. A couple of standard Mazdas, BMWs or Alfas rolling around is tremendous fun.

And that's how it should be. Variety is the spice of life. You can have more than one type of racing and more than one type of track.

Indeed. Almost every old GT track was suited to production cars, not for GT1 cars. To me, if people like a track enough to want it in 2020, theyll like it enough to leave it with the same layout.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I don't mind if they spruce them up a bit, make them a little more modern. But drastically changing them like Trial Mountain has been, not my cup of tea. Really hoping they bring in Grand Valley and Autumn Ring without doing the same to them.

 

[Imari]

Red Rock Valley.

SSR11.

 

[ShiftingGears]

The entire point of the Original Tracks was to be as realistic as was reasonable for their time periods. They were not meant to be sheer fantasy, they were meant to be tracks that could easily exist barring any practical circumstances (Eiger), because very real cars were driving on them.

Any fantasy track could reasonably exist, if you ignore every single factor that makes it unreasonable in the first place.

 

[Liquid]

SSR11.

Coincidentally, a fantasy track which has already been messed with.

In GT1, after the first complex you go through a tunnel under the main straight through two very tight chicanes.
In GT3, after the first complex you swing left before the tunnel and go straight over, parallel to and bypassing, the underground.

 

[RACECAR]

All this aside, what we really need to be talking about are things like Complex String.

I can likely see that getting some treatment to look more like a Manufacturers test track. Hopefully nothing on the level of Paul Ricard.

 

[Liquid]

I genuinely loved the Complex String. Would be great to have it as a track that is not career compulsory but available for races otherwise.

 

[Imari]

Coincidentally, a fantasy track which has already been messed with.

In GT1, after the first complex you go through a tunnel under the main straight through two very tight chicanes.
In GT3, after the first complex you swing left before the tunnel and go straight over, parallel to and bypassing, the underground.

I'm fine with having modern versions of older circuits, I'm not particularly at all keen on any old circuit coming back as an identical copy. But I do think that some of the older circuits have unique atmospheres or elements that could be brought into the modern day very well. And seeing the progression of a track over time is kind of cool as well, just like it is when you have multiple historical versions of real life circuits.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I can likely see that getting some treatment to look more like a Manufacturers test track. Hopefully nothing on the level of Paul Ricard.

I'll be down with this! You can't exactly race on the Complex String but it would be great place to test your car.

 

[queleuleu]

Where are the tree tunnels?! The same can be said for Maple Valley in Forza 7.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

And just like that, Famine stole all the traffic to my thread Anyway, I didn't even expect more than 2 pages of replies so I'm pleased with all the discussions so far. Really surprised at the poll results though. Probably reflecting the demographic of players now who are much younger and don't have the same attachment to the older games. Or I'm just an overly nostalgic sod

Tidgney in his GT7 trailer reaction video brought up another point that I didn't think about - in Sport Mode races with rolling start, people in mid and rear field positions would probably start in the middle or just before the chicane. Effectively punishing them before the race even began (same problem in GTS currently whenever there are races on Sarthe/Spa/Suzuka/Barcelona). No such issues with the old fast chicane because you can just flat it.

 

[Monkey Man]

Complex String was my all-time favourite track for testing and racing against my ghost.

I wouldn't want tweaks to the layout if it were to be brought back, but obviously I'd be down for graphical improvements to all the fantasy tracks.

 

[HarVee]

Ghost monkey has a voice. And his favourite track isn't Trial Mountain.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

New Trial Mountain appears to be an entirely new track, 'inspired' by Trial Mountain. It's as if someone had visited the abandoned Old Trial Mountain, somewhere deep in the forests of Polyphony, and decided they'd build a tribute in the 'States.
Some corners are remarkably similar, but this is a purpose built race track, designed from the start for racing at up to Gr.1 speeds (and beyond), world-class online competition, and appealing to nostalgia.
Old Trial Mountain did not have these goals in mind, it was designed to be a track to hold far less than 20 cars, n300 class on average, and excelled as a place for hotlapping, where one could appreciate the flow of pulling the many paired apexes together, and enjoying the thrilling ascending tunnel, maybe even taking a short flight over the crest into the latter half of the back straight, soaking up the beauty of Komorebi...

In short, New Trial Mountain is like a reorchestrated live recording of a song I love, I'm thrilled they're playing it again but the vibe is totally different and I don't want to hear this version every week.

 

[GBalao888]

Those were all fixing real world issues though.

Silverstone was to modernize the pits.
Hockenheim was because of logistical issues and the environment.
Catalunya was for safety reasons, slowing them down through the last corner.
Spa was also safety related.

Fictional circuits in a video game don't need to address these issues, except the pits perhaps being too small.

Don't forget about Le Mans back in '99 because of the Mercedes CLR's taking off and flipping quite violently. They even re-adjusted some of their bumps for the sake of safety so that cars don't suffer the same fate.

 

[IronM@sk]

The modern Nordschleiffe has also had many sections reprofiled and resurfaced for safety reasons. It's nowhere near as bumpy now.

 

[ShiftingGears]

In short, New Trial Mountain is like a reorchestrated live recording of a song I love, I'm thrilled they're playing it again but the vibe is totally different and I don't want to hear this version every week.

"We know how much you've asked for a horse, so here's a camel"

 

[wagnerFAM98]

Some of you may know it, but this is the very first version of Grand Valley from GT1's Test Drive Disc. Notice the longer second tunnel and bridge sections. So, basically it made me think that Grand Valley might come up to GT7 a little bit like this, given all these stretching needs. And seriously, I would love if it returned just like this early version.

 

[Liquid]

At least in Grand Valley's case the start/finish straight is already long enough without obstructive turns before or after that accommodating a 20-car pit complex wouldn't alter the 'spirit' of the original or devalue its authenticity if a longer straight is needed.