Pagani After a Few Years

  • Thread starter Thread starter JohnBM01
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niky
The Corvette and Viper don't qualify as supercars merely because of exclusivity and prestige. Both are super-sports cars, but not supercars.

It's just like the Ultima and the Noble... on the track, they're supercars, but in terms of ownership prestige... well, racer-boys will go gaga, but the valets at the clubs will wish you had never asked them to park those noisy, ungainly, hard-to-steer-in-a-parking-lot monsters. :lol:

No such problems with the Zonda or McLaren... they'll be tickled pink just to have a sit, then park them right in front of the clubhouse, in plain sight.
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What's wrong with Noble? Those are great cars. And the McLaren F1 isn't exactly a handler...it's claim to fame was strait-line speed, so stability and low drag (and consequently low downforce) were the top priority. The 3 seats thing is pretty neat, though.
 
Driftster
ok..but what about the Porsche 926..
That thing is loud, hard to steer in a parking lot, and ungainly
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That's a sportscar, we're talking about supercars, and why they do/don't deserve recognition and/or respect.


Well, actually, we should be talking about Pagani...
 
I can remember only two things about Lamborghini in racing. One is their V12s powering F1 cars way back when. The other is the Lamborghini Supertrophy, a One-Make series featuring Diablo GT-Rs. Other than that, I don't know about Lamborghini racing. Oh, and they did have that one-off deal racing in the ALMS.

Pagani has competed at the 12 Hours of Sebring in 2004, if I'm not mistaken. I don't think they did too well, so I guess they are trying to get something done on the racing front. I don't know how much racing success Pagani will have to have in order to be prestigious, that is, if racing is important to Pagani's success. I don't know how Pagani will be by the time I turn 47 (in other words, looking 25 years from now), but I know that if Pagani wants to be among its Italian brood of Ferrari and Lamborghini and Alfa Romeo, they may need a lot to be one of the premier brands in the world. Then too, is Pagani just a low-volume supercar company like Cizeta, or do Pagani want to offer as many automobiles with exceptional performance to make as much noise in the automotive world? Hey. Ferrari made it. Porsche made it.

Now by reading your posts, I kind of see now why Pagani isn't really mentioned a lot in automobile news. Again, I thank you all for your replies. If you have anything at all to add to this discussion, feel free to reply to this thread.
 
PS
What's wrong with Noble? Those are great cars. And the McLaren F1 isn't exactly a handler...it's claim to fame was strait-line speed, so stability and low drag (and consequently low downforce) were the top priority. The 3 seats thing is pretty neat, though.
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What I mean is, the valets would have a ***** parking the car. Great car, terrible turning circle, not as comfortable as the ultra-luxury supercars, and no rear visibility... For the Pagani, no problem... you just park it in front of the building... :lol:

The McLaren F1 IS a good handler because of its low weight... just not a good high-speed handler (not enough downforce for that)... but yeah, if it wasn't the fastest, people wouldn't be so enamored of it.
 
PS
Enzo with 6.0Ls? What about it? It's a ridiculously over-priced Ferarri that looks good—just like all of them. Except the 612 Scaglietti, that's just an over-priced Italian rednition of an Aston Martin.
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Yet the enzo is still a supercar (I'm trying to relate to the 5.0L thing).

Nobles are closer to track day cars, fast as hell but they don't elicit the same excitement of more exotic ones.

I'm not dissing the ZO6 I just don't believe you can lump it with supercars, it's not so outrageous in looks, price and performance to be one.

The 962 is definetly a supercar, a race car converted to street specifications, wild aerodynamics and loads of power.
 
PS
Enzo with 6.0Ls? What about it? It's a ridiculously over-priced Ferarri that looks good—just like all of them. Except the 612 Scaglietti, that's just an over-priced Italian rednition of an Aston Martin.
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If Ferraris were overpriced, no one would buy them. You pay the extra money for the experience of ownership of a Ferrari; it's like no other. Ferrari has been smart to capitalize on its image and unmatched driving excellence to make enough money to fund a (sometimes) successfull F1 team.

Whether you like it or not the Enzo can outperform any other supercar short of the CGT, which it equals in performance.
 
Wait, wait, wait... McLaren F1 not a good handling car? Let me see... McLaren F1. Enters the Le Mans endurance in 1995. Won outright in its debut. May want to reconsider that comment. And in terms of the Enzo being supreme, someone mentioned a Caterham that could out-accelerate the Enzo.

Paganis aren't really beautiful, but they do have some nice touches to them. The only cars I know of from Pagani are the Zondas. I think Pagani may want to try some other automobile ideas. You know, more like how Lamborghini's defining car of the 1990s was the Diablo, but their Murcielago and Gallardo are doing pretty well (don't know about the Gallardo, if you ask me). Even before then, there was the Countach, even their ugly truck (the LM002, I believe it's called). Of course, trying something new is good, but you have to be able to carry that pedigree to other autos with about as much prestige and honor as the bigger and better models. This means that maybe Pagani can make a car to one-up one of Pagani's Italian brotheren, Ferrari. They can make a "baby Zonda" to compete with the 360 Modena, maybe even the sexy F430. I love both of the Ferraris I mentioned, so I want to feel as happy and as enthused about a Pagani around the way of the 360 Modena and the F430. And if it could outperform both autos in class, Pagani might acquire a little following apart from the real expensive Zondas.

I'm done, so carry on, please.
 
The Zonda gets alot of respect as far as I know.

But then again it's perhaps it's like the Saleen S7 over here. I've never seen that on TV apart from an American made Discovery channel program and the Gillete adverts.
 
jetguy
my s2000 must be one of the greatest super cars ever. 120 hp per liter!!!!!!!!
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Mitsubishi squeeze 400hp out of a 2.0 engine.
 
Pagani gets plenty of respect. If I had any choice of any supercar ever, I'd take a dark red Zonda F. It is truly a benchmark supercar in many respects. But in that high-class segemnt, either it's brilliant or not, to be honnest. At such high calibe, critics just make up nonsense to grade them, how one is less "focused" or something like that. I can't see anything at all wrong with it. The styling is also somewhat partial, but I'm in love with it (especially the F's carbon trim).

 
Emohawk
...and F1 cars make ~900 out of 3.5 liters,
Are we done this yet? :indiff:
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And they used to make 1000 HP out 1.5 litres. And people forget the Porsche 935's that eventually made 1000 HP out of around 3 litres.
But really? 5.0 liter rule? Lamborghini's (real ones, not crappy Audi's in disguise) haven't had 5 litre engines for almost 15 years. And since when has anyone doubtet their cars as supercars? 2/3 of new Ferraris have engines greater than 5 litres. The Saleen S7 has a 7 litre engine. Is that not a supercar? It gets 100 HP/L. Is the Ford GT? It does as well. Coincedentally, does that make the BMW M5 a supercar, when it is the same idea as the Corvette Z06? I think the 5.0 litre rule is a load of crap.

The only reason Lamborghini is looked upon with prestige is because of the Countach. Look at resale. Testarossas go for far more than Countachs at auction. Lamborghini doesn't have similar prestige to Ferrari either. I think the easiest way for Pagani to get near Ferrari is to have racing ability.

Layla's Keeper
Pagani is going to need three things to move beyond the "boutique" manufacturer stage to become a full blown exotic manufacturer.

#1 - a successful racing program
#2 - an established lineage of models
#3 - an inhouse engine development program.

Lamborghini, Ferrari, Porsche, TVR, Lotus, and Jaguar remain atop manufacturers like Koenigsegg, Pagani, Marcos, Saleen, and Lister because of those three things.
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These 3 rules also are a little sketchy. First, I'll go over #1:
Lambourghini has no racing program. I compare that to Saleen and Lister. They have won races. In fact, the only amount of races they need to win more than Lamborghini is 1 and that's 1 more race than Lamborghini ever won in professional competition. #2: Last I checked, Saleen has made very many models. Marcos has aswell. #3: While Ferrrari and Lamborghini both check out (except for the Lambo V-10s that was basically built for Audi), Porsche has used Volkswagon engines in the past. The 356 was just a tuned VW Beetle engine. They made the 924/944/968 lineage for at least 20 years on what was a scrapped Audi engine. TVR has used very very many Rover engines in the past. Lotus has aswell (Elise) and now uses Toyota engines. And Jaguar has sold cars with Ford Vulcan V6's (besides me not understanding why they are considered supercar makers). I don't see how not using an inhouse engine is a detriment. I don't see how any of these points (including the 5.0 litre engine rule) knock against Pagani.
 
JohnBM01
...but wait. This is NOT a Gran Turismo topic. Instead, I want to ask this question. Many people see Europe as the maker of some of the world's best sports cars. The question I have is, Pagani is an exotic sports car brand. Why aren't Pagani getting any respect from the sports car faithful? Are Paganis not really exciting? Are they are not exotic? Do they lack performance and style? This isn't about Pagani in general, but why I don't really hear about Pagani being exceptional.
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It shifts units enough in the Italys , So will the Veyron ֶ 'twill be in 5 . I personally dig the Wiegert , update please .
 
Toronado
The only reason Lamborghini is looked upon with prestige is because of the Countach. Look at resale. Testarossas go for far more than Countachs at auction. Lamborghini doesn't have similar prestige to Ferrari either.
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Testarossa go for £25-36k at auction, Countachs go for +38k.
 
DeLoreanBrown
P.S. a little off , but can anyone clarify if the definition of a Supercar is NA only ?
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Personally, I would say that employing forced induction can devalue a supercar slightly, but there have been a few supercars in history which have employed forced induction (perhaps the most notable is the Ferrari F40)
 
DeLoreanBrown
Which is more Supercar :
Maybach Exelero or
Bugatti Veyron ?
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Veyron, IMO. More power, less weight.

However, neither of these is what I'd class as being supercars. They both weigh too much and aren't focused enough. They appear to be luxury tourers which just happen to be quick in a straight line. That's not enough to be classed as a supercar.
 
amp88
Veyron, IMO. More power, less weight.

However, neither of these is what I'd class as being supercars. They both weigh too much and aren't focused enough. They appear to be luxury tourers which just happen to be quick in a straight line. That's not enough to be classed as a supercar.
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Yeh, Big FR & Big MR GrandTourers . There is a real tight definition of exotic or supercar that eludes me for the moment.
 
I think the Excelero would grab more attention on a road.
 
It's Gangsta , where would it fit in a GT supercar class next to the SLRMcLaren ? the Veyron could have too much bloat to get Exotic status & now i think about it Grand Tourers are'nt Midship powerplanted , they strictly FR .
teh Pagan is def-in-nitely an Exotic touge
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Grand tourers can be mid-engined, they have beenin the past albeit only on the rare occasions. The Veyron is IMO a super grand tourer, however to say it won't get exotic status is very wrong. The fact that it wears a Bugatti badge is enough alone to give the car that.
 

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