Pcars shifting 101

[PRO_TOO]

so here we go. Tell me.

Edit:
Another question regarding shifting: do you guys shift down the exact same time you start breaking?! Like at the long straight (start/finish) at monza driving into the first chicane. I go full speed in 6th then hit the brakes hard the same time I click the wheel paddle 4 times as fast as I can. I'm still breaking then (when the car is in 2nd), letting go of the break move the whell to the right and roll to the first right turn with no throttle. Then hit the throttle like half way and turn the wheel left ready to accelerate as fast as I can.
Maybe someone can take the time to watch me via FaceTime and teach me a little. but it's appreciated if you just answer here.

I will add some of the comments/advises/suggestions you guys made later.

Edit:

Another question regarding shifting: do you guys shift down the exact same time you start breaking?! Like at the long straight (start/finish) at monza driving into the first chicane. I go full speed in 6th then hit the brakes hard the same time I click the wheel paddle 4 times as fast as I can. I'm still breaking then (when the car is in 2nd), letting go of the break move the whell to the right and roll to the first right turn with no throttle. Then hit the throttle like half way and turn the wheel left ready to accelerate as fast as I can.
Maybe someone can take the time to watch me via FaceTime and teach me a little. but it's appreciated if you just answer here.

That is a bad technique and will destroy your engine in PCars in no time. Depending on the car, you should brake, then shift down quickly, keep an eye on the revs and your balance. I personally like to have a little delay before i shift to the actual gear i want to take the corner in.

Downshift faster in the beginning of the braking zone and then spread the intervalls a little wider when you are nearing corner entry.

I'd say step by step unless you go into a very tight hairpin or short sharp corner. plus don't forget some high speed corners only require easing off and changing a gear or two and don't need any braking at all; the lower speed/revs will slow the car down as well.

If you do this in some modern race cars, the ECU will lock out the shift. Some do a basic RPM check, others you can also make dependent on the gear. To go beyond this, some will actually register the number of shirts commanded and down shift when it is safe for the engine to shift. So if you go in and request four down shirts, the car will begin to automatically down shift for you. Couple that with DBW which will blip the throttle for you, and down shifting becomes as simple as pressing a button...

Couple of things. One, in a sim, and engine braking effect on the rear wheels in RWD cars will be present. So the timing of downshifts will become very important if you are running without aids. Downshift in a straight line too early and you may lock up the rear tires. Downshift while turning in and trail braking and you will likely lose control. Practicing in GT5 is ok but because there really is no engine braking or tranmission damage it's not going to teach you much.

Second, not all cars are the same. Again, if you are running full simulation without aids, a car like the E30 BMW will require either heel and toe to downshift smoothly or rev matching with the throttle if you are using the paddles. If you don't heel and toe with the full manual you'll have a hard time engaging the gears, and with the paddles you'll get a massive and sudden engine braking effect when you engage the lower gears. A slight throttle blip will fix this.

A modern car with a synchromesh transmission on the other hand will have much smoother downshifting and won't necessarily require the throttle blip to maintain stability. Many modern race cars are particularly easy with smooth downshifting, road cars are the same.

Ultimately you have to practice with each car and find what works and doesn't work and develop a much wider range of driving skills than will ever be necessary with GT, or at least with any GT so far. This is one of the reasons a sim with "only" 70 cars is so much fun. If you run the cars with factory settings only, every car will feel different, every car will require different techniques and skillsets to get the most out of them. Every track will also be different, as driving an Ariel Atom on Donington or Cadwell Park is going to feel a lot different than driving it on some high speed track like Monza or Spa.

Shift gears as you would your own car, Only when the gear your changing into is within the required rev range.

@PRO_TOO -- Over time, as you get used to shifting, you can downshift based on RPM rather than just timing it. Either by listening or watching the tachometer, like GTP_Monkey said. This matters more in cases where you might drop your speed without necessarily going through the explicit steps of a braking zone (ie. braking, downshifting, then turning in), such as a multi-apex series of corners, or a long sweeper that tightens at the end.

After becoming familiar with a particular car -- since transmission ratios vary -- you'll be able to predict how downshifting from one gear to another will affect your RPM. Generally, the difference in RPM between higher gears (5th/6th) is smaller than lower gears (2nd/3rd).

The whole point of downshifting in the first place is to keep your RPM from falling below the ideal torque/power band (which depends on the car you're driving, of course). You don't really need to downshift until then.

 

[Zakspeed_TV]

Wolfe hit the nail on the head 👍

 

[bleeder]

the problem is that if you keep shifting down to second for that example corner, you'll always be only as fast as second allows, if you take a better line and keep the revs up you might find you can take the same corner in 3rd, or stay in 3rd for longer and engage 2nd as you come out of the corner to give you more revs.

don't forget as you learn the racing lines better you might have to change your current gear selection because you'll start going faster.

 

[PRO_TOO]

the problem is that if you keep shifting down to second for that example corner, you'll always be only as fast as second allows, if you take a better line and keep the revs up you might find you can take the same corner in 3rd, or stay in 3rd for longer and engage 2nd as you come out of the corner to give you more revs.

don't forget as you learn the racing lines better you might have to change your current gear selection because you'll start going faster.

I noticed this. It's really about getting to know the car. Sometimes the gear suggestion by gt5 doesn't fit my driving. So I make my own choices now. I switched gear suggestion off for now so I can make my own reference points for braking.

 

[Zakspeed_TV]

Let it flow be one with the car

DRIVECLUB could get you out of the habit of downshifting too fast because of the limiter, I know its not a sim but it could help in that sense.

Watch the Rev counter on this vid

 

[ElBasque]

I've made the neural connection between brake pedal position and the speed of my downshifts now.

Its really case-by-case but I start downshifting a few tenths after the heavy braking, as sometimes downshifting into the redline seems to unsettle the car (and makes me wince for the gearbox).

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

so here we go. Tell me.

Edit:
Another question regarding shifting: do you guys shift down the exact same time you start breaking?! Like at the long straight (start/finish) at monza driving into the first chicane. I go full speed in 6th then hit the brakes hard the same time I click the wheel paddle 4 times as fast as I can. I'm still breaking then (when the car is in 2nd), letting go of the break move the whell to the right and roll to the first right turn with no throttle. Then hit the throttle like half way and turn the wheel left ready to accelerate as fast as I can.
Maybe someone can take the time to watch me via FaceTime and teach me a little. but it's appreciated if you just answer here.

I will add some of the comments/advises/suggestions you guys made later.

Edit:

Watch how it's done in real life :





I learned heel and toe back when I was learning manual clutch ( 1st lesson taught by my old man while doing figure of eight ), more than 20 years ago. It will come naturally, listen to the engine, and try to do it slowly at first, until you can get consistent. After a few days, I could do it well on the road, even on slow corner ( slower execution ), the important thing is to sync your movement, you need to finish downshifting ( heel toe ) as you close to the end of braking in general.

 

[PRO_TOO]

I'm shifting down now more natural. It even feels "cooler"!

Disabling the gear suggestion really helps me. I have to think more and it's more rewarding.

I did some rally licensing and I kicked in 2nd so I have a very high ref and the car gets his ass out wide to slide the tight corners so beautiful.

Edit:
@Zakspeed_TV: please don't post any DC videos in here. but I get you. Thanks.
@Ridox2JZGTE: Thank you man! I'll try this later. Baby steps for now. I don't want to learn it in one day. As I have no clutch there is no need to heel and toe this way, imo. I drive all cars like a gokart. Left and right foot always on brake and throttle. Should I start driving like IRL?! I think I'm not getting an h-pattern shifter in the future.

 

[Punknoodle]

I'm shifting down now more natural. It even feels "cooler"!

Disabling the gear suggestion really helps me. I have to think more and it's more rewarding.

I did some rally licensing and I kicked in 2nd so I have a very high ref and the car gets his ass out wide to slide the tight corners so beautiful.

Edit:
@Zakspeed_TV: please don't post any DC videos in here. but I get you. Thanks.
@Ridox2JZGTE: Thank you man! I'll try this later. Baby steps for now. I don't want to learn it in one day. As I have no clutch there is no need to heel and toe this way, imo. I drive all cars like a gokart. Left and right foot always on brake and throttle. Should I start driving like IRL?! I think I'm not getting an h-pattern shifter in the future.

There is nothing wrong with left foot braking, I do both. Left foot braking for the GT cars with sequential transmissions and right foot braking with heel toe for the cars that I need to use the clutch with.

Funnily enough my family car is an auto and sometimes I suddenly realise I'm left foot braking in it.

 

[Zakspeed_TV]

@PRO_TOO OK BOSS

 

[InSight]

What changed my shifting habit a bit, was the Nordschleife vid, where the instructor said there are no second-gear corners. So now I always drive all slow corners in 3rd, which I might driven in 2nd before. The drive through is more smooth because of less shifting and it keeps the car from oversteering.

I shift based on the grip. If some tricky corner, like the Ex-Muhle gets the wheels spinning, I'll always drive it with a higher gear. I drive this one with 4th gear. 3rd gear can get me to spin around when powering out, if not careful on the throttle. Plus it saves me two shifts, I can keep in 4th through the whole combination.

2nd gear would be used only for the slowest chicanes like those on Monza.

Driving the turbo lagged cars can also be tricky, if the boost kicks in when you're still turning the wheel. So I always use a higher gear to let the boost in, when the car is already pointing straight. I can cruise the whole NS in only 4th and 5th gear in the C9 Sauber. 3rd already gets the wheelspin on most corners, it's crazy.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Time flies by so fast. I was doing all the gt5 licenses tonight. All on manual with no aids. Got a few gold here and there.
Shifting is really becoming natural now.
The races at the end of each license are really fun now. You should see me!
Time to do the AMG challenges now.

Happy happy PRO_TOO aka grinface!

Edit: I got the Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR '08 to drive at monza. And now it's starting to click. When in 2nd and the rev is high, the tail gets loose so quick. When I shift to 3rd it's much more under control. Back in the days I whould have said: this car is crap and/or turned on some aids. I learned a lot today. Ok, gotta admit: I'm a rookie at driving but my passion is semi pro!

Btw: it's crazy how different tires change not only grip but break points as well. so much stuff to learn again and again. If weather is changing in Pcars my head is gonna explode. I really do respect those professional drivers even more now. Never again automatic shifting!!

 

[Mike_grpA]

There is nothing wrong with left foot braking, I do both. Left foot braking for the GT cars with sequential transmissions and right foot braking with heel toe for the cars that I need to use the clutch with.

Funnily enough my family car is an auto and sometimes I suddenly realise I'm left foot braking in it.

I do the same in my girlfriend's auto lol.

I'd also add that left foot braking is a very useful technique in any car, including manual. Where I live I am spoilt for choice of good driving roads, most of them seem to be modelled on the nordschleife lol, and I go for pointless drives quite a bit, just because I love driving, and there's no good race tracks near where I live. When I'm going hard into a tight corner, I'll be heel-toe downshifting, and usually accelerate hard out of the corner (I hit the throttle a little earlier to compensate for turbo lag). But if I'm going fast through a section of kinks that can't be taken flat, I'll keep the right foot planted and quickly tap the brakes with the left foot to get some weight to shift over the front and get some response from the front end. In my old rwd skyline I could just lift off for a split second to get the back end to come around, but my current car responds better to left foot braking.

Left foot braking can also help to stabilise cars on loose surfaces. When your car is getting a bit of a handful at high speed on gravel or dirt, lifting off can actually exacerbate things, so keeping on the throttle and left foot braking can help to stabilise the car.

 

[thegt500]

I used to left foot brake IRL too, unfortunately, my current car (Seat Leon) won't allow this as the ECU will cut engine power when It senses braking and acceleration at the same time Damn you VAG and your silly safety features LOL.
I get my LFB kicks in GT6 now, but occasionally I get to give my wife's car a good workout with both LFB and heel/toe driving. But its only a 1 litre Nissan Micra, so can't get up to any really dangerous speeds doing so. Still good fun though

 

[Punknoodle]

I do the same in my girlfriend's auto lol.

I'd also add that left foot braking is a very useful technique in any car, including manual. Where I live I am spoilt for choice of good driving roads, most of them seem to be modelled on the nordschleife lol, and I go for pointless drives quite a bit, just because I love driving, and there's no good race tracks near where I live. When I'm going hard into a tight corner, I'll be heel-toe downshifting, and usually accelerate hard out of the corner (I hit the throttle a little earlier to compensate for turbo lag). But if I'm going fast through a section of kinks that can't be taken flat, I'll keep the right foot planted and quickly tap the brakes with the left foot to get some weight to shift over the front and get some response from the front end. In my old rwd skyline I could just lift off for a split second to get the back end to come around, but my current car responds better to left foot braking.

Left foot braking can also help to stabilise cars on loose surfaces. When your car is getting a bit of a handful at high speed on gravel or dirt, lifting off can actually exacerbate things, so keeping on the throttle and left foot braking can help to stabilise the car.

Spot on. Off topic, pity I didn't know you last year, I could have called in. I was working in Burnie for 3 months but did a bit of exploring, Cradle Mountain, Queenstown, Hobart then back up through Launceston. Called in to Symmons Plains on the way and watched some guys testing. You aren't wrong about the roads, I loved the drive out of Queenstown on the way to Hobart it was just a shame I was in a Hyundai i20 rental car. Reminded me of the roads back home (bottom of the South Island of New Zealand).

 

[Mike_grpA]

Spot on. Off topic, pity I didn't know you last year, I could have called in. I was working in Burnie for 3 months but did a bit of exploring, Cradle Mountain, Queenstown, Hobart then back up through Launceston. Called in to Symmons Plains on the way and watched some guys testing. You aren't wrong about the roads, I loved the drive out of Queenstown on the way to Hobart it was just a shame I was in a Hyundai i20 rental car. Reminded me of the roads back home (bottom of the South Island of New Zealand).

Really? I am currently in Burnie, so yeah, could've taken ya for a spin and shown you some of the nicer roads around here. I was lucky to learn to drive on all of the good Targa Tasmania roads like Helyer Gorge and you're not wrong about the roads in and out of Queenstown! Me and the mrs are looking at moving back to Hobart at the end of the year but if you're ever down this way gimme a buzz and I'd be more than happy to show you around. I used to live in Hobart, so I know all of the good roads down there too

Sorry about the OT

 

[Mike_grpA]

I used to left foot brake IRL too, unfortunately, my current car (Seat Leon) won't allow this as the ECU will cut engine power when It senses braking and acceleration at the same time Damn you VAG and your silly safety features LOL.
I get my LFB kicks in GT6 now, but occasionally I get to give my wife's car a good workout with both LFB and heel/toe driving. But its only a 1 litre Nissan Micra, so can't get up to any really dangerous speeds doing so. Still good fun though

I learnt left foot braking and heel-toe in my first car, which was a 1984 Holden/Isuzu Gemini 1.6. IIRC they have a 54kw engine, so that thing literally didn't go fast enough to be dangerous, but as it was a lightweight front engine rwd, it was the perfect car to learn in. Weak cars rule for learning driving techniques, as you can have them on their limit, whilst still being at a safe speed lol. My gemini used to top out at about 140kph, so while I was driving it like a race car, learning all the techniques, I wasn't going fast enough to get hurt if it all went wrong.

 

[Punknoodle]

Really? I am currently in Burnie, so yeah, could've taken ya for a spin and shown you some of the nicer roads around here. I was lucky to learn to drive on all of the good Targa Tasmania roads like Helyer Gorge and you're not wrong about the roads in and out of Queenstown! Me and the mrs are looking at moving back to Hobart at the end of the year but if you're ever down this way gimme a buzz and I'd be more than happy to show you around. I used to live in Hobart, so I know all of the good roads down there too

Sorry about the OT

I was there to supervise the electrical controls installation of the new pressed cheese process at the cheese plant there on top of the hill. Unfortunately it's all finished now so I won't need to go back but at this stage it looks like I'll doing a similar length project down in Melbourne this year so you never know what I'll get up to on my days off - a trip to Phillip Island is definitely on the cards though.

 

[DrJustice]

What changed my shifting habit a bit, was the Nordschleife vid, where the instructor said there are no second-gear corners. So now I always drive all slow corners in 3rd, which I might driven in 2nd before. The drive through is more smooth because of less shifting and it keeps the car from oversteering.
...

Good advice! It's easy to be too aggressive with the shifts in in a sim/game (...and overdriving the car in general). I guess you don't feel the mechanical agony so much, and neither do you get any maintenance bills

Left foot breaking is also useful, both for the speed of throttle/brake transitions and for the ability to brush the brakes while on throttle to adjust the car's attitude (edit: in small doses).

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I'm shifting down now more natural. It even feels "cooler"!

Disabling the gear suggestion really helps me. I have to think more and it's more rewarding.

I did some rally licensing and I kicked in 2nd so I have a very high ref and the car gets his ass out wide to slide the tight corners so beautiful.

Edit:
@Zakspeed_TV: please don't post any DC videos in here. but I get you. Thanks.
@Ridox2JZGTE: Thank you man! I'll try this later. Baby steps for now. I don't want to learn it in one day. As I have no clutch there is no need to heel and toe this way, imo. I drive all cars like a gokart. Left and right foot always on brake and throttle. Should I start driving like IRL?! I think I'm not getting an h-pattern shifter in the future.

Oh, if you use no clutch, then you can practice left foot braking instead, and for downshifting while braking, imagine you are doing it on real road, plan ahead, visualize next corner and what you will do, then execute it on moderate pace, no rush, just try be smooth. Once you are comfortable with certain car/track combo, increase you pacing when braking/shifting.