PD Firmly stuck in Hard Tyre Syndrome again!

[Mudda Chod]

[START Rant]

Seriously!!! After eventually listening to our pleas in GT Sport, it's like someone wiped their minds....

All Daily Races with Hard tyres, yet again.

And the Porsche is almost undriveable with SH. Who's brilliant idea was this? The game is supposed to be fun right?

GIVE US SOME GRIP, PLEASE!!!!!

And, WHAT'S THE POINT OF 1x Tyre wear on a 6 min race with Sports Hard tyres.... Or even on a 12min race with Racing Hard...

Where's the strategy? Where's the variety?

Wake up PD, please create events with tyre choices that are enjoyable to drive, and provide options with strategy in the longer races...

And that goes for the Circuit Experience challenges too, some of which would be much more enjoyable with RM, or RS tyres...

Would it hurt to give us that much? And considering we have to BUY the tyres anyway, it's a win-win!!!

Why even have RM or RS tyres in the game, if EVERY event is stuck on Hard....

[End Rant]

p.s. please slap your Events Programmer in the face

 

[Nuschel01]

And the Porsche is almost undriveable with SH.

Git Gud

 

[CodeRedR51]

Am I the only one that has never purchased RS tires?

 

[BangsMcCoy]

Am I the only one that has never purchased RS tires?

I purchase them for time trials and just general messing around with very high hp cars, but yeah, they’re useless for events/races. Even RM tend to wear too quickly to be worth it, but there are a few cases/cars were RM can come in handy and be of some use i.e. swapped Tundra at Sarthe I run them on the rear and RH on the front for the first 3 laps until the rain hits.

 

[WolfpackS2k]

If we're talking about tires, can we talk about how RMs are mostly worthless? They wear out so much quicker than RHs it's almost to the point of comedy.

 

[Artremis]

Last week's Race C was soft tires

 

[Mudda Chod]

Git Gud

Currently 68th in the world.... You?

 

[A_Higher_Place]

Hard Tyres for life. Who buys them at those prices? Inflation is too damn high!

 

[Mudda Chod]

Hard Tyres for life. Who buys them at those prices? Inflation is too damn high!

At least we don't have to pay for fuel in the game.... Yet :-O

 

[Pizzicato1985]

Am I the only one that has never purchased RS tires?

I think I have a set on maybe 3-4 cars, only racing mediums I have are the ones that came with Group C's.

I really didn't notice enough of an increase in grip to compensate for their shorter lifespan the few times I tried them, so I've always thought hards were plenty sticky. In the sports tires category there's quite a big difference in lap times and grip levels between the three compounds, but not in the racing tires. Or perhaps it's that RH's already grip so well that going to a stickier tire just isn't needed, especially with Gr. 3 and 4 cars.

 

[Samus]

Surely it's more boring that it's Gr.3 and Gr.4 races every week? Do PD know that they have other cars that can be used?

 

[ixlr8nz]

Surely it's more boring that it's Gr.3 and Gr.4 races every week? Do PD know that they have other cars that can be used?

They dont know they have other cars.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I like using hard tyres.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is a bit annoyed by this.

It's not just their use in the Sport Races, Racing Softs are literally useless outside of non-degrading events, and even in those, when you want to participate with a car you want, most of the time they raise the pp requirements so much that you have to downtune the car to be an absolute pig in either handling or straightline speed.

And when it comes to the races where there's tyre deg like the endurance 1 hour races, even the Racing Mediums have practically no use whatsoever... They degrade so much faster than the Racing Hards that the speed delta between pit-stops renders them useless.

I dunno which race it was, but it was with Gr.3 cars, I remember I was being, about 4 tenths faster with the RMs... but did about 50% of the laps or whereabouts. Basically, I gain 4 seconds over 10 laps but have to make 2x ~20 second pit-stops where I can just do 1 with the hards.


The only hope for the RMs and RSs to have some sort of use is in longer races where tyre wear is set at 1x. 24 hour races, but even then, with those settings, the Hard tyre also gets proportionally better so it ends up being the same story.


Sports tyres on the other hand have quite a difference between them. Sports Softs perform on a completely different level compared to Sports Hards, and yes they also degrade a lot faster, but you can still get performance gains from them. On certain car/track combos, you can get anywhere from 2 to 3 seconds faster per lap. That's insane.

 

[RobertHammer]

Weren't there daily races with Racing Soft and Mediums like a week ago?

Personally i don't have a problem with Racing Hards

 

[Mudda Chod]

I like using hard tyres.

Have you tried the A race this week (Porsche on Sports Hard). Please try it and let us know if you like the way it drives

 

[Mudda Chod]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is a bit annoyed by this.

It's not just their use in the Sport Races, Racing Softs are literally useless outside of non-degrading events, and even in those, when you want to participate with a car you want, most of the time they raise the pp requirements so much that you have to downtune the car to be an absolute pig in either handling or straightline speed.

And when it comes to the races where there's tyre deg like the endurance 1 hour races, even the Racing Mediums have practically no use whatsoever... They degrade so much faster than the Racing Hards that the speed delta between pit-stops renders them useless.

I dunno which race it was, but it was with Gr.3 cars, I remember I was being, about 4 tenths faster with the RMs... but did about 50% of the laps or whereabouts. Basically, I gain 4 seconds over 10 laps but have to make 2x ~20 second pit-stops where I can just do 1 with the hards.


The only hope for the RMs and RSs to have some sort of use is in longer races where tyre wear is set at 1x. 24 hour races, but even then, with those settings, the Hard tyre also gets proportionally better so it ends up being the same story.


Sports tyres on the other hand have quite a difference between them. Sports Softs perform on a completely different level compared to Sports Hards, and yes they also degrade a lot faster, but you can still get performance gains from them. On certain car/track combos, you can get anywhere from 2 to 3 seconds faster per lap. That's insane.

I think the reason RM degrade so quickly is because they only ever offer them when the wear rate is set to x7 or x12.

In endurance races it makes sense to use hard tyres, for all the reasons mentioned already.... But not on a 1 lap time trial (for example) or mid length race.

Many times it's been 50/50 between strategies in the C race i.e. 1 stop on RH Vs 2 stop on RM. This proves they can get it right

 

[JMR450]

I would be very keen to get club racers and auto X participants to weigh in on the accuracy of tire degradation in this game. My motorsport disciplines in real life don't allow me that insight.

 

[PirovacBoy]

@Mudda Chod I personally enjoy the Hard Sport Tire Compound. Same goes for the Racing Hard Tires. They provide enough Grip in my opinion. Especially the Sport Hard Tires with this Weeks Race A Porsche under BoP Settings is very pleasant to drive actually.
As Long as the Cars HP/Torque Curve doesn’t overwhelm the Tire Compounds available Grip I see absolutely no issues in using them.
Same goes for the Racing Hard Tires in combination with the GT3 and GT4 Class Cars.
These Tires have proven to have massive amounts of Grip to handle these Cars'Power Output with ease.
The Comfort Hard Tires are great Fun too as long, yeah you might have guessed it the ho/ Torque matches the available Grip Level to the Cars power output.
Medium and especially Softs are just overkill.
They are fun too but somehow they don’t provide the amount of Finesse and Throttle Control needed when compared to the Hard Compounds.
And yes I have driven this Weeks Race A and yesterday I was in 66th Position Globally which most definitely has changed by this Point but that’s not the Point.
What exactly is it that you don’t like about the Sport Hard Tires, especially with the relatively low Power/Torque Curve the Porsche has to offer 🤔
The Tires are definitely not the Problem at least in my opinion

 

[Mudda Chod]

@Mudda Chod I personally enjoy the Hard Sport Tire Compound. Same goes for the Racing Hard Tires. They provide enough Grip in my opinion. Especially the Sport Hard Tires with this Weeks Race A Porsche under BoP Settings is very pleasant to drive actually.
As Long as the Cars HP/Torque Curve doesn’t overwhelm the Tire Compounds available Grip I see absolutely no issues in using them.
Same goes for the Racing Hard Tires in combination with the GT3 and GT4 Class Cars.
These Tires have proven to have massive amounts of Grip to handle these Cars'Power Output with ease.
The Comfort Hard Tires are great Fun too as long, yeah you might have guessed it the ho/ Torque matches the available Grip Level to the Cars power output.
Medium and especially Softs are just overkill.
They are fun too but somehow they don’t provide the amount of Finesse and Throttle Control needed when compared to the Hard Compounds.
And yes I have driven this Weeks Race A and yesterday I was in 66th Position Globally which most definitely has changed by this Point but that’s not the Point.
What exactly is it that you don’t like about the Sport Hard Tires, especially with the relatively low Power/Torque Curve the Porsche has to offer 🤔
The Tires are definitely not the Problem at least in my opinion

I certainly agree with your point regarding power/torque Vs grip, and the need for throttle finesse. As you mention Gr4 I do agree that most Gr4 cars are fine with RH but I feel many Gr3 cars without BoP will easily overpower the hard compound and IMO are more fun to drive on mediums.

Please also don't ignore the point that it can make for exciting race strategy to have well matched fuel/tyre option in the C race (1 stop Vs 2 Stop).

I am very surprised to hear that you find the Porsche in this weeks A race "very pleasant to drive". Maybe it's different for you, but for me it will easily spin on entry and exit of every corner. Too much throttle, or alternatively any lift off and away it goes for a seemingly endless slide. Very much NOT my idea of pleasant, and I'm struggling to see how you find it fits well in the power/torque Vs grip equation. Even with ALL the assists turned on it will easily spin out for me, on both throttle application AND lift off.

I can only assume it's a very different experience for you and I'm interested to find out why. Can you share with us what pedals you have, and if you have tuned/damped the accelerator or brake. I'm using Logitec G29 (with LC brake mod), which I'm aware has a very short throttle control compared with Thrustmaster & Fanatec. When I use my friends Fanatec rig I find the cars seem more stable during acceleration and I think it's because of the longer throttle providing smoother application. Or perhaps each brand is modeled differently by PD (like BOP on pedals... hmmm). I've also tested T300 with T-LCM pedals which are divine, and they also have a much longer throttle throw than the Logitec (probably double the distance I'd say), and options for damping/calibration etc.

It would be great to test them all side by side, to see if the driving experience is different

Edit: Obviously controller users will have a different experience/opinion about suitability of tyres, which is probably a separate discussion

 

[coryclifford]

I would be very keen to get club racers and auto X participants to weigh in on the accuracy of tire degradation in this game. My motorsport disciplines in real life don't allow me that insight.

Total of 7 minutes a day, in a 1994 E Prepared Honda that weighs 1697 with me, large cantilever sidewall Hoosier bias ply slicks, softest compound, replaced twice a season. Race once a month.

It’s fast tire wear. That’s what it took to win 8 Championships in 9 years.. Not bragging at all but just saying, tires go quick when trying to be fastest.

 

[Mudda Chod]

Total of 7 minutes a day, in a 1994 E Prepared Honda that weighs 1697 with me, large cantilever sidewall Hoosier bias ply slicks, softest compound, replaced twice a season. Race once a month.

It’s fast tire wear. That’s what it took to win 8 Championships in 9 years.. Not bragging at all but just saying, tires go quick when trying to be fastest.

So you got six full races out of one set of the softest compound tyres? Whereas in the game we'd be lucky to get around 6 laps (for example)

 

[coryclifford]

Yeah pretty much. They fell off quickly in just a day. Cooled with water after a few runs. They aren’t R DOT tires. A thumb nail leaves a slice. Gummy, sticky like a chewed piece of gum, but pretty poor tire life, really. And a $1000 a set twice a year was a bit much.

Found a picture

Edit: wrong picture, can't find the one...

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

And the Porsche is almost undriveable with SH.

That's the point.

While Daily Race A doesn't impact DR or SR, the wins still count on your tally. If the cars were easy to drive, it'd be really easy to punt your way to a win each week. If the cars require finesse and concentration to control, those eejuts that are prone to punting their way to wins are far more likely to end up sliding off course.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I certainly agree with your point regarding power/torque Vs grip, and the need for throttle finesse. As you mention Gr4 I do agree that most Gr4 cars are fine with RH but I feel many Gr3 cars without BoP will easily overpower the hard compound and IMO are more fun to drive on mediums.

Please also don't ignore the point that it can make for exciting race strategy to have well matched fuel/tyre option in the C race (1 stop Vs 2 Stop).

I am very surprised to hear that you find the Porsche in this weeks A race "very pleasant to drive". Maybe it's different for you, but for me it will easily spin on entry and exit of every corner. Too much throttle, or alternatively any lift off and away it goes for a seemingly endless slide. Very much NOT my idea of pleasant, and I'm struggling to see how you find it fits well in the power/torque Vs grip equation. Even with ALL the assists turned on it will easily spin out for me, on both throttle application AND lift off.

I can only assume it's a very different experience for you and I'm interested to find out why. Can you share with us what pedals you have, and if you have tuned/damped the accelerator or brake. I'm using Logitec G29 (with LC brake mod), which I'm aware has a very short throttle control compared with Thrustmaster & Fanatec. When I use my friends Fanatec rig I find the cars seem more stable during acceleration and I think it's because of the longer throttle providing smoother application. Or perhaps each brand is modeled differently by PD (like BOP on pedals... hmmm). I've also tested T300 with T-LCM pedals which are divine, and they also have a much longer throttle throw than the Logitec (probably double the distance I'd say), and options for damping/calibration etc.

It would be great to test them all side by side, to see if the driving experience is different

Edit: Obviously controller users will have a different experience/opinion about suitability of tyres, which is probably a separate discussion

I‘m using the Fanatec CSL Load Cell Pedals.
But I don’t know if using other Pedals might be the Reason for our differences in the driving Experience.
Might be though.
I personally get extremely good Results with the Porsche as soon as I activate the Stability Management.
I suggest EVERYONE struggling with unstable Cars to use it.
It makes them so much more enjoyable to drive, not to mention that most of them are built around it.
Especially the high powered Street Cars.

 

[Don3hide]

[START Rant]

Seriously!!! After eventually listening to our pleas in GT Sport, it's like someone wiped their minds....

All Daily Races with Hard tyres, yet again.

And the Porsche is almost undriveable with SH. Who's brilliant idea was this? The game is supposed to be fun right?

GIVE US SOME GRIP, PLEASE!!!!!

And, WHAT'S THE POINT OF 1x Tyre wear on a 6 min race with Sports Hard tyres.... Or even on a 12min race with Racing Hard...

Where's the strategy? Where's the variety?

Wake up PD, please create events with tyre choices that are enjoyable to drive, and provide options with strategy in the longer races...

And that goes for the Circuit Experience challenges too, some of which would be much more enjoyable with RM, or RS tyres...

Would it hurt to give us that much? And considering we have to BUY the tyres anyway, it's a win-win!!!

Why even have RM or RS tyres in the game, if EVERY event is stuck on Hard....

[End Rant]

p.s. please slap your Events Programmer in the face

Porsche race is fantastic. Very challenging. I've done 4 races, all top 3 finishes with one win.

Proves to me that I'm faster than I thought as in most other races the machinery isn't equal. I'm nor one to just race OP cars.

 

[JMR450]

Yeah pretty much. They fell off quickly in just a day. Cooled with water after a few runs. They aren’t R DOT tires. A thumb nail leaves a slice. Gummy, sticky like a chewed piece of gum, but pretty poor tire life, really. And a $1000 a set twice a year was a bit much.

Found a picture

Edit: wrong picture, can't find the one...

View attachment 1174795

That's the type of input I was seeking. The tire degradation in game seems excessive in all formats to me but without real world experience I can't say definitively.

 

[Mudda Chod]

That's the type of input I was seeking. The tire degradation in game seems excessive in all formats to me but without real world experience I can't say definitively.

I think the tyre wear in the game is ok when set at x1, but usually when they allow medium or soft compounds they also set the multiplyer much higher. This is also understandable in relativity to the number of laps, if calculated correctly so different strategies result in a close race finish. I don't have any problem with the tyre wear and different compound options, except PD just don't get it right very often in the daily races, or don't use it at all.

I personally get extremely good Results with the Porsche as soon as I activate the Stability Management.
I suggest EVERYONE struggling with unstable Cars to use it.
It makes them so much more enjoyable to drive, not to mention that most of them are built around it.
Especially the high powered Street Cars.

Doesn't this kind of degrade your previous point regarding Power Vs Grip? I mean, why create a driving experience that's so unstable for a human driver that they need to use computer stabilisation to get around the track successfully?? Why not just use tyres with more grip, so we can drive it without ASM?

I'm well aware of the arguments for and against assists, real world bla bla bla, and yes I use them also in GT7 when required. Essentially my point is simple.... why not just provide a car & tyre combination which is fun to drive for a real human i.e. with or without assists?

Like this weeks A race, some car/tyre combinations are so bad they can ONLY be driven with assists turned on, even for experienced drivers, but many car/tyre combinations are fine without assists and are actually slower when the assists are turned on? Why? Because the handling of some car/tyre combinations (physics, power, traction) is so good that the computer "help" actually detracts from the skill of the human. IMO this produces the most enjoyable driving experience, rather than resorting to poorly designed computer programmed assists to overcome poorly implemented computer programmed physics.

Pre-empting some backlash.... Yes, I have also enjoyed some races where assists are necessary for stability, but I think the overall experience is MORE enjoyable when the car/tyre/handling combination is more natively stable i.e. assists are optional (for experienced drivers) and don't necessarily produce faster lap times

 

[PirovacBoy]

Doesn't this kind of degrade your previous point regarding Power Vs Grip? I mean, why create a driving experience that's so unstable for a human driver that they need to use computer stabilisation to get around the track successfully?? Why not just use tyres with more grip, so we can drive it without ASM?

I'm well aware of the arguments for and against assists, real world bla bla bla, and yes I use them also in GT7 when required. Essentially my point is simple.... why not just provide a car & tyre combination which is fun to drive for a real human i.e. with or without assists?

Like this weeks A race, some car/tyre combinations are so bad they can ONLY be driven with assists turned on, even for experienced drivers, but many car/tyre combinations are fine without assists and are actually slower when the assists are turned on? Why? Because the handling of some car/tyre combinations (physics, power, traction) is so good that the computer "help" actually detracts from the skill of the human. IMO this produces the most enjoyable driving experience, rather than resorting to poorly designed computer programmed assists to overcome poorly implemented computer programmed physics.

Pre-empting some backlash.... Yes, I have also enjoyed some races where assists are necessary for stability, but I think the overall experience is MORE enjoyable when the car/tyre/handling combination is more natively stable i.e. assists are optional (for experienced drivers) and don't necessarily produce faster lap times

I get exactly what you trying to say.
But for me and from my personal Experience the ASM Feature has nothing to do with the Tires or the Available Grip.

It’s ONLY reducing or helping with the Cars Body Roll.
It stabilizes the Chassis Movement in a comprehensible way and is making the Driving Experience more Natural, at least for me.
I don’t treat the Assists like some Elitists who are only after the FASTEST available Method.
Having that said I don’t believe and have proven for myself that the Driving AIDS don’t slow me down to the Point I’d arguably not use them.
For me personally it’s ONLY about the Driving Experience.
I don’t care what’s making me faster/slower.
Look at the ABS Feature.
I don’t know of anyone who is not using it in a competitive Environment.
Why not?!
Because it’s making the Driving a whole lot a easier and more enjoyable.
Why?!
Because In Real World we get physical Feedback from the Brakes/Locking.
It’s more intuitive to modulate and be precise.
And the same goes for ASM.
We simply don’t get the Physical Feedback what the Chassis is doing, hence we rely on our Eyes/what we see on the Screen and accordingly try to adapt.
So yes, I personally don’t have an issue using Driving AIDS if it’s making the Experience more enjoyable.
That doesn’t mean that I don’t have Instances where I disable some assists.
In 99% of the Case, I only drive with the ABS Feature on weak and on some Cars I then adjust the ASM/TCS to my personal Likings.
Not because I’m not able to drive or control the Car.
Because it’s more relaxed and enjoyable on SOME FEW Cars.
Or MT vs. AT for example.
I prefer MT but I also know of People who do enjoy it more to drive with AT.
Or the Driving View to mention another delicate and debatable Option.
I personally ALWAYS AND RELIGIOUSLY drive in Cockpit View with Wobble 2 and NO HUD.
Like I said, to me it’s not about the fastest Method, it’s about the most enjoyable one.
To each his own 😁

Edit: not to forget that in real World most Cars are built around Driving Assists and I hardly can imagine some of them being enjoyable or safe to be driven without them.
Not that it wouldn’t be possible, but I‘d never buy me a 100+ K Car and then deactivate its Security Assists.
I just recently got me a BMW M4 F82.
And believe me or not but I’d NEVER EVER dare to drive this Car without its Assistance Systems 😅

 

[ShiftingGears]

Surely it's more boring that it's Gr.3 and Gr.4 races every week? Do PD know that they have other cars that can be used?

They try it once in a blue moon only for one car to be so much quicker than everything else in class, then they get gun shy and then never use it again rather than fixing the class BoP