Penalise dirty drivers!

[Maneawolff]

If you are penalised for hitting a barrier or exceeding track limits in daily races then why don't they penalise drivers who missile into you purposefully and send you off track?
PD could at least make cars ghost when they are obviously accelerating into a competitor rather than braking into a corner.
I don't understand why after 8 months of having released this game they aren't doing anything about these dirty drivers.

 

[TJC_69]

Welcome to the frustrating world of GT online racing. And Polyphony's unique penalty algorithm systems.

Don't you remember GT Sport when they turned the penalties off fully? Those were the days. Wreckfest looked tame compared to Sport Mode back then 😂

Nostalgic moment there.

 

[Artremis]

Unfortunately they've never quite been able to reach a good balance with penalities. Near the beginning of the game's life they pretty much made any contact give a 2-5s penalty and people quickly learned how to exploit it (make contact, go off-track for a bit, game assigns blame to the other driver), now it's pretty much the opposite.

At some point they really need to consider, maybe as just a couple weeks test, to abandon the idea of fault altogether and just penalize all drivers involved in contact no matter what. Overtly harsh perhaps and would definitely lead to some unfair moments but I think people would be more cautious if they knew they are going to get penalized instead of taking a gamble on the game assigning fault to the wrong car.

 

[Maneawolff]

Yeah I know, I just don't get it. I honestly think that if your accelerating toward a corner at a narrow angle and it's obvious you aren't aiming for the apex and will consequently kill someone your car should ghost at least so it doesn't affect others so much.
It would be easy for them to do but they just won't.
I guess the 'race killers' and trolls are part of their target demographic as well though so they don't want to lose them.. lol

Unfortunately they've never quite been able to reach a good balance with penalities. Near the beginning of the game's life they pretty much made any contact give a 2-5s penalty and people quickly learned how to exploit it (make contact, go off-track for a bit, game assigns blame to the other driver), now it's pretty much the opposite.

At some point they really need to consider, maybe as just a couple weeks test, to abandon the idea of fault altogether and just penalize all drivers involved in contact no matter what. Overtly harsh perhaps and would definitely lead to some unfair moments but I think people would be more cautious if they knew they are going to get penalized instead of taking a gamble on the game assigning fault to the wrong car.

For sure. They should try some different models and I know people will always find a way around penalties but I mean the dive bomb attacks where people just accelerate straight at you and use you as brakes. Those can't be hard to identify.
I don't like having to race with the rear view mirror pov cause it's soooo low you can't see anything up ahead but it's the only way to avoid people who don't like being beaten and cheat or are willing to throw away an sr point just to win a race.
I just really struggle to understand why PD can't or won't do anything about the really flagrant attacks..

 

[Imari]

They should try some different models and I know people will always find a way around penalties but I mean the dive bomb attacks where people just accelerate straight at you and use you as brakes. Those can't be hard to identify.

You'd think so, but then you have people who rejoin the track at a snail's pace in the middle of a straight and you plow into them because you had no time to react. And people who just stop mid-track to go have another hot pocket. And brake checkers who make you "dive bomb" them.

And so on. What is and isn't okay in racing is so context sensitive that reasonable humans disagree as to who is at fault sometimes. There's a whole category of "racing incidents" that are basically fault unclear, probably both of them. Getting a computer to deal with a problem where even human's can't clearly specify what they want the outcome to be is almost impossible.

I just really struggle to understand why PD can't or won't do anything about the really flagrant attacks..

Because when you actually try and program a set of hard and fast rules, defining "flagrant" without catching a bunch of edge cases as well is harder than it looks.

Try it if you don't believe me. Define "flagrant" so that any observer could apply the definition to correctly identify whether a hit is flagrant or not. This means you need to avoid any subjective language and cover all edge cases.

This is why no-fault systems exist, and it's why they're still the gold standard for assigning driver safety ratings in online racing. They work and they're easy to understand.

 

[Maneawolff]

You'd think so, but then you have people who rejoin the track at a snail's pace in the middle of a straight and you plow into them because you had no time to react. And people who just stop mid-track to go have another hot pocket. And brake checkers who make you "dive bomb" them.

And so on. What is and isn't okay in racing is so context sensitive that reasonable humans disagree as to who is at fault sometimes. There's a whole category of "racing incidents" that are basically fault unclear, probably both of them. Getting a computer to deal with a problem where even human's can't clearly specify what they want the outcome to be is almost impossible.

Because when you actually try and program a set of hard and fast rules, defining "flagrant" without catching a bunch of edge cases as well is harder than it looks.

Try it if you don't believe me. Define "flagrant" so that any observer could apply the definition to correctly identify whether a hit is flagrant or not. This means you need to avoid any subjective language and cover all edge cases.

This is why no-fault systems exist, and it's why they're still the gold standard for assigning driver safety ratings in online racing. They work and they're easy to understand.

Defining a word and coding are so different though, people will work what flagrant or otherwise means through trial and error. I agree there are heaps of other things people can or will do to win but surely in the missile attack case it's at least slightly more obvious and more easily remedied. I'm pretty sure they tried something like it a few months back cause people were ghosting when they came in too hot sometimes but I think they have just given up now honestly.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

Try it if you don't believe me. Define "flagrant" so that any observer could apply the definition to correctly identify whether a hit is flagrant or not. This means you need to avoid any subjective language and cover all edge cases.

You don't have to cover all instances, only the obvious ones. For example:

• Someone dive-bombing a turn is obvious - they're way too fast, and not even trying to slow down or steer. If someone is legitimately bad enough to do this by mistake, go ahead and penalize them anyway. They'll learn quickly.
• Driving side-by-side with someone on a straightaway, and they suddenly jerk the steering wheel into you - that's obvious.
• Keep a running count of the number of cars you bumper-hit. And the number of cars you PIT. The higher the count, the harsher the penalties.

And this is just off the top of my head. Sure, there will always be loopholes, but the point is that they could at least do something.

 

[Maneawolff]

That's what I'm saying...
They can't cut out dirty driving all together (that comes down to the drivers) , but I still think they could do more to prevent the really obvious and malicious take outs if they penalise, utilise ghosting or a combination of the two.
Surely that would be doable...

 

[NamuGriff]

What is needed also is the ability to be able to report dirty drivers after a race, so if they are repeat offenders and reported often by others, then they get like a days ban from the Daily races, and if they keep doing it after that, the ban gets longer.

 

[Darrenersmit]

What is needed also is the ability to be able to report dirty drivers after a race, so if they are repeat offenders and reported often by others, then they get like a days ban from the Daily races, and if they keep doing it after that, the ban.

Could be an Idea, but you could also end up getting reported for minor incidents by some petty fools who you get past fair and square.

 

[MotorHammer]

It got significantly better when they raised the damage. I wish they’d bring that back. I’m firmly at the top of the B-DR but I find the most fun races I get into are when I use an alternate account and try to keep myself as a high C-DR post terrible qualifying times and move up the grid. Start around 16-12 and drive cautiously and wait for mistakes pass and finish 6-2nd. These seem to be best and when you get railroaded just remember it’s kinda keeping your DR lower and that makes it easier to have top 5 finishes.. top 5 finishes have been my goal for a few months now.. love moving up the grid, hate getting punted while in a podium position.. this has been my remedy to dirty drivers. I feel A-DR is achievable for me but only low end A and it would come with to much frustration. You can say it… I’ve become a SMURF

 

[jrbabbitt]

I tend to brake earlier and softer to ride thru the turns faster, and therefore I tend to get hit from behind and punted off at the turns. Just because I drive differently does got give right to punt me off.
Example: last night I was in race B Monza, and I had a Vette in front of me brake early, I tried to avoid hitting him but could not, I was in total fault and got penalty for it.
I try to brake at the beginning edge of known brake zones but others tend to ignore brake lights, brake late in turns, and just believe that they "OWN" the driving line and damned if anyone gets in their way. Because I brake early and smoother I will cross in to the apex of the turn because it is the proper line, others complain that I'm weaving and blocking, and punting me off again.
Yes I believe that penalties should be enforced and everyone should respect that everyone drives differently

 

[Maneawolff]

I tend to brake earlier and softer to ride thru the turns faster, and therefore I tend to get hit from behind and punted off at the turns. Just because I drive differently does got give right to punt me off.
Example: last night I was in race B Monza, and I had a Vette in front of me brake early, I tried to avoid hitting him but could not, I was in total fault and got penalty for it.
I try to brake at the beginning edge of known brake zones but others tend to ignore brake lights, brake late in turns, and just believe that they "OWN" the driving line and damned if anyone gets in their way. Because I brake early and smoother I will cross in to the apex of the turn because it is the proper line, others complain that I'm weaving and blocking, and punting me off again.
Yes I believe that penalties should be enforced and everyone should respect that everyone drives differently

Oh mate I feel that.
Monza is just crazy since they made the rolling start positions closer together.
Everyone knows where to brake but someone always gets a bit adventurous and tries to brake late.
I don't really try to overtake before the first corner.
And yeah I think something should be done as well to mitigate the effect of the really obvious take outs.
They'll never eliminate dirty driving but I do think that PD could do more to prevent these really obvious attacks.

 

[RacingFan1]

Damage is probably the most obvious solution in most cases. Even if its not permanent damage.
Damage + penalties will make dirty asshats disappear as they will usually lose rather than gain by doing dirty actions.
Your way of driving and the level of carefulness is SO much different depending if there's damage or not. And probably the main reason dirty drivers are dirty is because they know their car can't be damaged.
PD has made some recent improvements in damage which is good, but I think they still have some work to do, for example I think the cars drive/handle too good when they are damaged.

 

[Maneawolff]

True

 

[NamuGriff]

Damage is probably the most obvious solution in most cases. Even if its not permanent damage.
Damage + penalties will make dirty asshats disappear as they will usually lose rather than gain by doing dirty actions.
Your way of driving and the level of carefulness is SO much different depending if there's damage or not. And probably the main reason dirty drivers are dirty is because they know their car can't be damaged.
PD has made some recent improvements in damage which is good, but I think they still have some work to do, for example I think the cars drive/handle too good when they are damaged.

Sadly they often damage your car more than their own, by making sure to get you shoved into a barrier. Number times I had that happen, and they get no penalty while you lose multiple places, get damage, and a hitting the barrier penalty for good measure as well, while they race off into the distance. Use to be in GT Sport if that happened the car that hit you got a 5 sec penalty, of course the dirty drivers learned this quickly and would then tao you, before driving themselves off the track so you got a penalty instead, before they would again race off.

 

[RacingFan1]

Sadly they often damage your car more than their own, by making sure to get you shoved into a barrier. Number times I had that happen, and they get no penalty while you lose multiple places, get damage, and a hitting the barrier penalty for good measure as well, while they race off into the distance. Use to be in GT Sport if that happened the car that hit you got a 5 sec penalty, of course the dirty drivers learned this quickly and would then tao you, before driving themselves off the track so you got a penalty instead, before they would again race off.

Maybe they could implement some trick - if someone gets shunted and is not at fault, the damage is recovered immediately? While the dirty one suffers the damage a lot more time, like 1 minute