[Petition] Separate class for those who can tune

7
Poland
Poland
Hello GTPlanet! Do you like making your cars suit you? Are you irritated by BoP setup details, and would like -- for example -- softer dampers? Reply "HELL YES" in this thread, and hopefully PD would do something to respect our style.

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Dear Polyphony Digital,

I find, that the BoP / fixed setup conditions are too strict. Gosh, I can't even adjust brake balance – while the default suspension setup is… peculiar.

How about a separate class for dailies/championships, for those who can tune? E.g. "GT1-T", "GT2-T" (T for "tune") etc?

For championships, in the "Are you sure you want to join in current class?" screen -- there could be a checkbox "I want to make my own setups."
For dailies -- I don't know, but maybe a checkmark next to BoP icon, TRUE by default -- when unchecked displaying "Tuner" where "BoP" used to be.

It isn't relevant what can be tuned at a given race. You want power limitations, weight, or PP -- be my guest. But let us do SOMETHING to make our cars&races OURS.

And please don't say "This is what Lobbies are for" -- therein reigns darkness & filth; while non-BoP races in Daily category already feel scarce.

Respectfully,
--- a fan of Gran Turismo
 
Seems like there were too many exploits the way the system was for first week of open-tuning races, so I agree that they are figuring that out before trying to roll it out again.

Also, if there were any more daily races than there already are, the lobbies would be too scarce. One could easily argue that the lobbies are already too scarce and I assume that's mostly because PS4 and PS5 players are split, and the fact that it's so early in the game's life that a lot of people simply don't have it yet. I can only imagine what the lobbies would look like if there were 6 dailies.
 
There should at minimum be one race a week with just a hp and weight maximum no nitrous and rotate street cars, race cars and proffesionally tuned cars. weekly.
Ill add to that the funnest week ive had yet was the first week at deep forest with the 295hp restriction there was such a variety of cars to use it was way more fun than the meta races we have now
 
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I think once the game is up and running with many of the issues worked out it will make more sense to add dailies, have some tuning and some non-tuning simultaneously, but there's simply not enough players right now to do that without ruining the races even further. However, if they were to ever do that I think PD would quickly learn that the participation in the tuning lobbies would be far lower than that of the non-tuning. So those lobbies will likely always look like the lobbies do now....1-3 A+ up front, a handful of A, then B and sometimes even C drivers all in the same lobbies with qualy times spread out by like 5s or more.
 
Hopefully the 'tuning' races will come. Especially as streamers like SuperGT are already saying BoP has led to one car dominating...
All we can really do is keep 'politely demanding' tuning events.
 
it's still very early times. META cars are inevitable on basically any race configuration. If the Atenza and RCZ get nerf'd, another meta or 2 will arise. It's no different in tuning races, it just takes longer to figure out which cars are meta because there's more variables involved but it still happened at Daytona and Deep Forest on week 1 & 2. after a few BoP updates things will improve the way they did in GTS, but you should always expect that one or two cars will become META on any particular combination. Sometimes it's just the track that determines the META, sometimes it's the race settings like tire wear and fuel multipliers but no matter what you do, there will always be a best tool for any job.
 
TL;DR
  1. Reenable brake balance in BoP races ASAP please
  2. Tuner CHAMPIONSHIPS would be better simulation of actually being contacted to a manufacturer – but it's understandable that not everybody would prefer this aspect. Therefore a choice is recommended.
  3. Daily races are substantially different, and perhaps the "tuner flavor" of a daily race would have car(s) preselected and user makes a setup for himself.

--- full post below

Seems like there were too many exploits the way the system was for first week of open-tuning races, so I agree that they are figuring that out before trying to roll it out again.
Perhaps. I tune a lot and indeed found them myself, but didn't think much of it. The PP "cliffs" / "jumps" made sense to me, even though they might've been too exagerrated in relation to real world effects.

Also, if there were any more daily races than there already are, the lobbies would be too scarce. One could easily argue that the lobbies are already too scarce and I assume that's mostly because PS4 and PS5 players are split
But PS4 and PS5 players are not split. I met my friends (who hava PS4, I have the 5) in the Dailies and Championships. And I don't think there is [dailies] 3x20 + [champ's] 2x20 , perhaps let's triple this == 300 players per region at a time... Feels way too low, that way you'd quickly see names repeating and (for me) that is not the case. Having even 10% of that be tuners would suffice to have the kind of races I propose.

There should at minimum be one race a week with just a hp and weight maximum
As a bare minimum -- yes. And BRING BACK BRAKE BALANCE.
What I propose is however a more extensive differentiation. I propose to allow tuning in championships -- this might be a see change for Polyphony, because they seem to treat championships as some kind of staging area for their world finals. -- I don't care for this "big game", like -- I don't care at all. I want my game to be more suited to me and what brings me joy. I want to compete with players like me in contests where the relevant skills -- here: preparing your machine several times and being one with it throughout the season.

Current championships are feeling more like "may the fastest kid win", which -- if you prefer this -- is "just ok".

Ill add to that the funnest week ive had yet was the first week at deep forest with the 295hp restriction there was such a variety of cars to use it was way more fun than the meta races we have now
+1
The "exploits" mentioned in 1st quote to me are "not a bug, they're a feature". Engineering in motorsport strives to find such exploits in real rules, and governing bodies (FIA, IMSA, etc) then react to those exploits by "patching up" the rules.
This should be reflected in the game. The system is how it is, and some operate it better than others. That isn't even an exploit -- that is excellence. There is no hacking or otherwise corrupting the system. It is finding the preference of system's creator and -- in a "mystery"-like way -- this is a lot of fun!
However, if they were to ever do that I think PD would quickly learn that the participation in the tuning lobbies would be far lower than that of the non-tuning.
That's generally fine, at least by me. I would rather race 4 people who know their stuff, rather than 20 people out of which 5 are kindergarteners.
So those lobbies will likely always look like the lobbies do now....1-3 A+ up front, a handful of A, then B and sometimes even C drivers all in the same lobbies with qualy times spread out by like 5s or more.
I don't know where you are, but I am in Europe, often playing in morning hours and this is totally unlike what I see in my races. Here dailies are packed with people of same rank.
It's no different in tuning races, it just takes longer to figure out which cars are meta because there's more variables involved [...] Sometimes it's just the track that determines the META, sometimes it's the race settings like tire wear and fuel multipliers but no matter what you do, there will always be a best tool for any job.
That is true. But this is why I specifically mention championships: there the aspect of "best for given job" is diminished, as tracks are mixed. In a tuner championship, you need to know your way around setups to adapt your car in those 2/3 days. It would feel much more cohesive, unlike the "story" of you being contracted to a manufacturer, but the engineers are lazy bums and won't even change brake balance or damper stiffness for you.

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You may also pose a question "what if somebody just takes teh bezt setoop from YouTube and runs with it?" -- but if you really know your **** you should be able to adapt YOUR car to YOUR driving style and at least have a pleasurable, wholesome race. That guy just got lucky.

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Maybe Tuner Dailies should have a car preselected, and the player only makes a setup. This way everybody would have the META and in the intepretation there would be emanation of player's skill.

Ultimately: let's focus on pushing Tuner Championships for reason listed 3 paragraphs above. Current form is just crappy from my perspective, and I am 100% positive that if I could tweak the dampers/etc then I would have a much better time -- even if that is not the way to battle Hizal and Gallo in the end. 🙄
 
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But PS4 and PS5 players are not split. I met my friends (who hava PS4, I have the 5) in the Dailies and Championships. And I don't think there is [dailies] 3x20 + [champ's] 2x20 , perhaps let's triple this == 300 players per region at a time... Feels way too low, that way you'd quickly see names repeating and (for me) that is not the case. Having even 10% of that be tuners would suffice to have the kind of races I propose.
Yes they are split in Daily Races but not in the Championships, unless this has changed in the past couple days. It's pretty well documented.
I don't know where you are, but I am in Europe, often playing in morning hours and this is totally unlike what I see in my races. Here dailies are packed with people of same rank.
You're probably aware that EMEA region has far more players than any other region. Here in NA not only do we have much less but the quality of drivers is typically lower. I don't race a lot anymore but typically 1 or 2 times a week for a few hours at a time and I'm often one of only 2 or 3 A+ drivers, sometimes the only one when I do race. I don't always race at peak times so that is a factor, but I still watch streamers who do race during those times and the lobbies aren't much better for them either. I've seen EMEA streamers in full A+ lobbies though, so I'm a little jealous.
 
We all have different things we like, if PD does a weekly race (lets stop call them daily really) for everyone of us, there would be a thousand different races, which would be nice but quite unrealistic.
 
Tuning allows a broader range of cars to be competitive, not just 1-2 meta in BoP. Plus it get's people involved in a different way, not just those that are chasing DR...which may result in a higher player count. And once more drivers get involved, they will likely tryout different events...and this positive cycle continues.

Stop just accepting we don't have enough players for more races -- start thinking of what it would take to grow player engagement. Even though the OP's suggestions may be tricky to implement, I think it's positive to see someone offer an option to make GT7 more enjoyable.

As people have stated, PD needs to fix bugs found in the soft launch, hope so...but I've said this before, there is a huge community of street car enthusiasts that are not participating in dailies because PD focuses on Gr4, Gr3 segments.

You have Nations & Manu, could PD offer a TUNER? So many 'low hanging fruit'...before you judge, why don't we give it a try? No one is suggesting to replace, but only to add another, and another. Why do some people object to more content?
 
Tuning allows a broader range of cars to be competitive, not just 1-2 meta in BoP.
Were you not around for the first week of the game? Only one car was "competitive" at a time until people found the next OP/unintended setup.

I wouldn't mind a fixed hp/weight BoP with open setup system like ACC uses, although even there only 3-4 cars are consistently competitive at the sharp end across all the BoP track groups.

iRacing manages to have popular series with both fixed setup and open setup, there's even a small group of people making a living creating decently competitive setups, but again the BoP of the cars is all fixed. Allowing every single car that fits under a given "PP" limit is always going to leave the door open to nonsense like a hybrid car dominating other cars of the same power-weight ratio because the hybrid isn't taken into account.
 
Only one car was "competitive" at a time until people found the next OP/unintended setup
Yes I was around and despite PD's cluelessness, it was still very enjoyable to tune a broad range of cars and partake in the daily.

BTW, PD missing the hybrid aspect isn't a cause to ban tuning...if PD can establish the right/just system, then the reality is -- that metas will still exist, but a broader range of cars will be competitive...and for some, this broader range of cars will entice them to participate.

Once again -- tuning affords a BROADER RANGE OF CARS...it's not just about metas.
 
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