Pick My Next Car ($15k – $20k, 4 door, must be able to tow)

[ExigeEvan]

...none of which you'd want to buy second hand without budgeting for new rear springs and shocks, and a new clutch. Simple facts really, towing causes much more suspension and drivetrain stress. SUVs and the like are much more naturally suited to towing than normal cars. It's why manufacturers quote higher towing weights for them...

That said - at the sort of size of sedan Blake seems to be looking at, it wouldn't be as much of a problem, especially if he's only planning on towing a small trailer.

From experience I disagree.

My grandfather pulled a 4 birth caravan for years with a Ford Granada without issue, then a vectra befoer only getting a Rav4 because of the local speed cushions.

My uncle pulled a 5 birth caravan with a volvo sedan (I forget which) for years. No issue.

My neighbour pulls a small boat with a Rover 75. Only using his brothers Range Rover when he's going further afield than Burry Port (a good 30 miles away).

The guy with the Wagon R has had it atleast 7 years, because hell I walked past it everyday to school since about year 8 and it's hard to miss a Yellow Wagon R with ???? AXL on the plate.

My parents only use a Toyota Previa to tow because we have a 6 birth and a need to carry 6 people with luggage.

Unless you're pulling serious mass, which a kart is not, then you don't need a serious tower. A hatchback might feel the strain but a mid-size sedan will be fine. It's only when you get upto twin-axle caravans and horses you have to seriously consider your towing capacity.

 

[Prince.M5]

Not really, and I was about to suggest new A4 too. Maybe the used one sold between $18K-$24K.

I've checked it and a used A4 year 2001 B6 Multitronic is $18,990 with 113,00KMs on the clock.

And the 2001 Audi A4 B6 Quattro is $17,999 with 144,565KMs on the clock. It really is still expensive.

 

[homeforsummer]

From experience I disagree.

My grandfather pulled a 4 birth caravan for years with a Ford Granada without issue, then a vectra befoer only getting a Rav4 because of the local speed cushions.

My uncle pulled a 5 birth caravan with a volvo sedan (I forget which) for years. No issue.

My neighbour pulls a small boat with a Rover 75. Only using his brothers Range Rover when he's going further afield than Burry Port (a good 30 miles away).

The guy with the Wagon R has had it atleast 7 years, because hell I walked past it everyday to school since about year 8 and it's hard to miss a Yellow Wagon R with ???? AXL on the plate.

My parents only use a Toyota Previa to tow because we have a 6 birth and a need to carry 6 people with luggage.

Unless you're pulling serious mass, which a kart is not, then you don't need a serious tower. A hatchback might feel the strain but a mid-size sedan will be fine. It's only when you get upto twin-axle caravans and horses you have to seriously consider your towing capacity.

You'll note that nowhere did I say it wasn't possible. It just increases wear, a lot. You can see secondhand cars everywhere that sag slightly at the rear from towing, and trust me, it'll knacker the drivetrain a lot quicker too. Again, that's why manufacturers provide towing figures and more often than not they're higher on off-roaders...

You'll also note that I added a disclaimer about it not being an issue since he's going to be towing a kart...

 

[Omnis]

A mitsubishi 380? That Galant replacement? Ew.

 

[ExigeEvan]

...none of which you'd want to buy second hand without budgeting for new rear springs and shocks, and a new clutch. Simple facts really, towing causes much more suspension and drivetrain stress.

You'll note that nowhere did I say it wasn't possible. It just increases wear, a lot.

I realise you never said it was impossible, but you also made it quite clear you thought it was a major problem. It's not, I assure you.

You can see secondhand cars everywhere that sag slightly at the rear from towing, and trust me, it'll knacker the drivetrain a lot quicker too. Again, that's why manufacturers provide towing figures and more often than not they're higher on off-roaders...

I see alot of cars saggling at the rear, but I assume it's because their rear shock and springs are shot from going over speed bumps and the general bad state of our roads. I've had my own car's rear shocks replaced for just that reason.

You're point seems to be based on the fact that a 4x4 would find it easier because it's towing capacity would be far higher. That's all well and good but I don't recomend cars for motorway cruising based on their maximum speed.

You'll also note that I added a disclaimer about it not being an issue since he's going to be towing a kart...

And the point of the disclaimer was to nul any reply?

 

[YSSMAN]

My first thought was Chevrolet Impala, then I realized you're down under. So then the clear option would be either the Falcon or the Commodore, mainly because they're everywhere and easy to repair should anything go wrong. However, I do agree with Homeforsummer's suggestion of a small SUV or perhaps a crossover. The RAV4 and CR-V are still solid options, and between the two, the Honda is a pretty good choice. When not towing, they have a knack for actually driving like a car and getting halfway decent fuel economy while doing so.

In regards to the Passat, it would be more than capable for your basic requirements, but things would mostly depend on what engine and transmission you've got in the car. Generally speaking, a VR6 combined with the Tiptronic gearbox is going to be (for the most part) indestructible. Newer models are going to be a bit more ish-ish, but I haven't heard much either way in terms of their overall reliability.

What about one of these:

 

[homeforsummer]

I see alot of cars saggling at the rear, but I assume it's because their rear shock and springs are shot from going over speed bumps and the general bad state of our roads. I've had my own car's rear shocks replaced for just that reason.

...which doesn't make much sense. Surely the end of the car suspending the engine and having to deal with all those speedbumps etc would get as much if not more punishment than the rear, which is mostly there to keep the back bumper from scraping along the floor. In other words, front suspension gets more punishment than rear suspension. If the rear is sagging it means it's had a pretty harsh life... such as pulling a trailer, for example.

Cars sagging at the rear are generally from having to carry Rick Waller-alikes around the whole time, chavs messing with torsion bars, or towing something heavy in a car that's unsuitable for the task.

You're point seems to be based on the fact that a 4x4 would find it easier because it's towing capacity would be far higher. That's all well and good but I don't recomend cars for motorway cruising based on their maximum speed.

Erm... well it is easier towing in an SUV. The weight of a bigger vehicle balances out whatever you're towing better, and all-wheel drive transmission gives you better traction.

Put it this way, when you go to motorsport events, how many club racers tow their race car behind regular cars? Not many, I'm guessing - but there'll be a lot of vans and 4x4s because they're more suited to the task. I'm not quite sure what part of that you're missing...

And the point of the disclaimer was to nul any reply?

No, it was to make people aware that I'm aware that the object being towed isn't that large so a smaller car might be okay. But I wasn't disputing that. What I picked up on was this:

All this talk of needing something bigger than a sedan is stupid.

...which I disagree with. It's perfect logic to recommend a vehicle more suited to towing when someone says they'll be towing something...

 

[Turbo Lag]

Just get a Commodore, you can pick up a 100k mileage 07' Omega for around 20 grand. As far as I know, they'll run forever, are fairly reliable, and have plenty of space and is quite cheap. If you're willing to buy a pre-VE model, there's plenty to choose from.

 

[ExigeEvan]

...which doesn't make much sense. Surely the end of the car suspending the engine and having to deal with all those speedbumps etc would get as much if not more punishment than the rear, which is mostly there to keep the back bumper from scraping along the floor. In other words, front suspension gets more punishment than rear suspension. If the rear is sagging it means it's had a pretty harsh life... such as pulling a trailer, for example.

Cars sagging at the rear are generally from having to carry Rick Waller-alikes around the whole time, chavs messing with torsion bars, or towing something heavy in a car that's unsuitable for the task.

Perhaps it doesn't make sense, but I only live on a road with nearly a mile of speed cushions that I have to travel over on a regular basis and know of several others who have had suspension damage (front and rear).

Erm... well it is easier towing in an SUV. The weight of a bigger vehicle balances out whatever you're towing better, and all-wheel drive transmission gives you better traction.

Of course it would be easier, it'd also be far easier to walk 100 yards than to drive, but that doesn't make it necesary. A sedan is capable of his towing needs without undue stress, but a 4x4 would be easier, yes.

Put it this way, when you go to motorsport events, how many club racers tow their race car behind regular cars? Not many, I'm guessing - but there'll be a lot of vans and 4x4s because they're more suited to the task. I'm not quite sure what part of that you're missing...

Of course a 4x4 or a van is more suited to towing a club racer. It's a larger load than a kart. But then you wouldn't see a 4x4 towing a 40ft fright box. I know what suitability is, but I also know what overkill is.

...which I disagree with. It's perfect logic to recommend a vehicle more suited to towing when someone says they'll be towing something...

I agree where you're coming from, but there's a difference between the requirements of someone that tows daily and someone that requires an occasional tower. Why reccomend something that 90% of the time will be overkill when something else will be 90% suitable and atleast 10% capable, but not ideal.

 

[Jondot]

Perhaps it doesn't make sense, but I only live on a road with nearly a mile of speed cushions...

I'm sorry, but please don't call them speed 'cushions' when that's plainly the least accurate description they could possibly be given

 

[Paulie]

A standard towbar on a Falcon is "rated" for 1600kg and I think Commodores are the same. That's enough to tow a go-kart easily and therefore not over-stress the car. Most small cars (i.e. small 4cyl vehicles) are more like 1200kg or something I think, if that. I may have even seen some rated under a tonne but memory is fuzzy.

Edit: Oh, heavy duty Falcon bars are 2300kg, with load levelling kit, so they can handle it easily enough.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I'm sorry, but please don't call them speed 'cushions' when that's plainly the least accurate description they could possibly be given

Fair point.

 

[homeforsummer]

Perhaps it doesn't make sense, but I only live on a road with nearly a mile of speed cushions that I have to travel over on a regular basis and know of several others who have had suspension damage (front and rear).

As you've now stated that suspension damage from speed bumps happens both front and rear, you'll agree a sagging rear is from repeated heavy loading, yes?

A sedan is capable of his towing needs without undue stress

...which I didn't dispute.

Of course a 4x4 or a van is more suited to towing a club racer. It's a larger load than a kart. But then you wouldn't see a 4x4 towing a 40ft fright box. I know what suitability is, but I also know what overkill is.

I wouldn't call a small SUV such as a RAV4 "overkill". You'll notice I also recommended it from a practicality perspective. You can fit vastly more in the back than you can in the average small saloon, and the opening is much better than the boot on a saloon too.

I agree where you're coming from, but there's a difference between the requirements of someone that tows daily and someone that requires an occasional tower.

I'd agree.

Why reccomend something that 90% of the time will be overkill when something else will be 90% suitable and atleast 10% capable, but not ideal.

Again, a small SUV wouldn't be overkill. And it certainly isn't a "stupid" suggestion.

A standard towbar on a Falcon is "rated" for 1600kg and I think Commodores are the same. That's enough to tow a go-kart easily and therefore not over-stress the car. Most small cars (i.e. small 4cyl vehicles) are more like 1200kg or something I think, if that. I may have even seen some rated under a tonne but memory is fuzzy.

Edit: Oh, heavy duty Falcon bars are 2300kg, with load levelling kit, so they can handle it easily enough.

Falcons/Commodores and the like are big beasties anyway Do they even change the rear suspension much on the Ute versions?

 

[Paulie]

Falcons/Commodores and the like are big beasties anyway Do they even change the rear suspension much on the Ute versions?

The Utes compared to the sedans? Indeed they do, hell, the Falcon Ute even still uses a leaf spring and live axle setup as opposed to the sedan's coils. The VE Holden Ute uses IRS and coils, but the spring rates are still stiffer to accomodate extra payload in the tray. The Falcon therefore obviously has higher payload in the tray, but the Holden in general handles better. Amazingly though they're not too different, Ford sure know how to compensate between handling and commercial practicality.

 

[TheCracker]

...If the rear is sagging it means it's had a pretty harsh life... such as pulling a trailer, for example.

I've noticed a lot of similar aged Foresters to mine on the road that have a sagging rear end. You can guarantee they all have tow bars on the back. 👍

Multi-link suspension as found on most modern saloons is going to get buggered quite quickly by using it to tow with. The movement from a trailer bouncing it's weight up and down on the tow bar all the time is much better handled by a leaf springs.

 

[ExigeEvan]

As you've now stated that suspension damage from speed bumps happens both front and rear, you'll agree a sagging rear is from repeated heavy loading, yes?

You've interprited that to your own means. There are failures to front and rear suspensions, but not at the same time. Again, like my car, the rear failed, the front did not. It's never towed, and the back seats were hardly used prior to me purchasing it.

I wouldn't call a small SUV such as a RAV4 "overkill". You'll notice I also recommended it from a practicality perspective. You can fit vastly more in the back than you can in the average small saloon, and the opening is much better than the boot on a saloon too.

Again, a small SUV wouldn't be overkill. And it certainly isn't a "stupid" suggestion.

In my opinion it's a stupid suggestion because that's not what he's looking for and that's not what he needs. Thus, pointless.

I'm sorry if you took offence to the word "stupid", it wasn't aimed personally at you or anyone else that mentioned small and mid-size SUVs but it is how I felt the situation needed to be called. Perhaps in retrospect softer wording should have been used.

 

[SVX]

What about a Subaru? You can get used ones for cheap.Or,maybe a Forester? But I'm only ten though.

 

[Blake]

What about a Subaru?

Well I'm going to try and find a Liberty to drive next weekend, so I'll see how that goes.

Also driving an A4 next weekend, and I'll try a Falcon and a Commodore too. I might be able to get a 2005/2006 XR6 for around the 20k mark, but SV6s seem to bit more expensive.

I haven't driven the Aurion or Passat yet, but they're slipping down the list.

 

[Paulie]

Well I'm going to try and find a Liberty to drive next weekend, so I'll see how that goes.

Also driving an A4 next weekend, and I'll try a Falcon and a Commodore too. I might be able to get a 2005/2006 XR6 for around the 20k mark, but SV6s seem to bit more expensive.
I haven't driven the Aurion or Passat yet, but they're slipping down the list.

That's because SV6s are better. [/Holden v Ford rivallry]

 

[Sniffs]

That's because SV6s are better. [/Holden v Ford rivallry]

hehehe. i see some things never change, Ford versus Chevy down under style!

 

[mafia_boy]

That's because SV6s are better. [/Holden v Ford rivallry]

hehehe. i see some things never change, Ford versus Chevy down under style!

It's worse here Sniffs, it's a religion to us and our vatican is Mt.Panorama. It's become a lot stricter there over the past few years (due to increased police presence everywhere!) but back in the day if you parked your Ford within 100m of a Holden crowd, it was guaranteed to be BBQ'ed that night, and vice versa with a Holden near a Ford crowd.

Now, back to topic....my best suggestion to you Blake for a car like this is to look at the Crewman's. The VZ V6's are going for between 15k-20k at the moment with only 40k-60k kilometres on them, and they have the Alloytec's with 175Kw or 190Kw, not the Ecotec's 150Kw. Or you can get a VY Cross 8 for the same price with good old LS1 power. The Crewman's have a 2100kg as a V6 Auto, and 2500Kg with the V8 Auto (only 1600Kg for V8 manual though , ohwell) and the Cross 8 has the same 2500kg towing capacity.

If you can "stretch" the budget (ie. double it. ), you can get this beast and it will almost tow the Earth itself....it has a supercharged 393ci LS1 with 570rwhp & 850ft/lb of torque!!
http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=7046240&__sid=123B8599673B&__Qpb=true&Cr=0&__Ns=pCar_PriceSort_Decimal|1||pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=&__N=1216%201247%201282%201252%204294965857%204294964828%20898&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=140&silo=1011

For any towing job, I'd pick the Commodore anyday, it's still the only true one tonner we have.

 

[MasterFocus]

with that one, you should be able to tow anything, its 4 doors and right in ou price range!!

 

[Tornado]

with that one, you should be able to tow anything, its 4 doors and right in ou price range!!

Australia.

 

[Paulie]

The Crewman has no back seat room though, and by the sounds of it you won't be towing stuff often enough or heavy enough to need a Crewman.

 

[mafia_boy]

I'm 6'1" Paulie and I fit pretty easily in the back of my friend's VY SS Crewman and that's even with garbage on the floor!!

And they're good cars even when they don't need to tow. 👍

 

[Blake]

Drove a 2004 Audi A4 today (B6). Drove the sedan with the 2 litre petrol engine, 6 speed automatic gearbox.

Was pretty awesome, the engine could have used a bit more power but the auto was very sensible - it wasn't afraid to rev and it wasn't confusing itself by jumping between gears every half a second. It was by far the best auto I've ever driven. Even in manumatic mode it was very responsive but at the same time smooth, so that was a plus.

Overall it drove really well, had a bunch of features for the money and the build quality was so much better than everything else I've looked at so far. Plus it was from the Audi dealership so they've got a 2 year unlimited km warranty, as well as 24 hour roadside assist.

Total is about $24k and I'm leaning heavily towards it. Thoughts?

 

[ExigeEvan]

If you can afford it great. Does it already have a tow hook? If not see if they'll put one on for free or atleast with labour free, not sure how the market is in Aus.

 

[Paulie]

If you can afford it great. Does it already have a tow hook? If not see if they'll put one on for free or atleast with labour free, not sure how the market is in Aus.

I doubt that he'd get the towbar for free.

Just remember that if something goes wrong on an Audi chances are it will be expensive to fix here. That's probably an OK car otherwise.

 

[High-Test]

The previous generation subaru legacy/liberty (____-2009) did have a tow rating of about 2700 lbs. Is that enough for your needs?