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[ALB123]

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[UKMikey]

There's some interesting discussion about lap times on the physics versus thread from around page twelve/thirteen onwards:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/forza-5-physics-vs-gt6-аnd-other-sims.292112/page-13

It looks like skid reduction force can shave seconds off your cornering times if you're using it in GT.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Howdy Forza 5 players. My brother currently has an XBox One and Forza 5. I'm still on my PS3 and I play GT6. We have a few of the same cars and same tracks between our two games and occasionally we will talk about a lap time we set with one of our cars in stock setup. I'm wondering, for those of you who have played both of the games, are lap times similar between GT6 and Forza 5? Meaning, if you were equally skilled with both games, do you find that you would set almost identical lap times around a track like Laguna Seca with a stock Aventador, for instance, or does GT6 always seem to have a faster lap time (or vice-versa, does Forza 5 seem to always have a faster lap time)?

I know there are considerable differences between the two games, and I'm not looking to see which game is closer to real life or any of that crap...I'm just curious if my brother and I should even bother telling each other what kind of lap times we are setting or not. I think I saw a video of someone comparing GT6 and Assetto Corsa recently and I swore the guy making the video said his laps on GT6 around Silverstone in the Ferrari 458 were always like 5-6 seconds faster than on Assetto Corsa.

Thanks for your time...

Tires would be major issue, need to built exact same car, preferably a replica that is built with real life lap time as reference, that way you have 2 cars with similar tire grip level. Put same setup on both cars and driven by same person with same pace, see which one is quicker/slower.

Nissan GTR would be good base car for comparison or SRT Viper GTS 2013, although the real car spring rate can't be replicated in GT6 and GT6 Viper has so many errors in stats and settings Reminds me of the silly GT6 vs FM5 video using Viper GTS '13 , GT6 Viper uses sports tire in the comparison to FM5 at Bathurst even CS is more than enough to replicate real car stock tire. I doubt FM5 Viper stock spring rate would be correct as well.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

If anything, this just further confirms how utterly pointless it is to compare lap times between the two games, especially when people consider "replicas" on the basis of how much they need to handicap a car, tires-wise, to hit the same lap times as it does in real life. Lap times alone do not mean a car is more realistic.

If a game is claiming "real driving simulator" status, and needs all sorts of (unique) finessing for each car to be considered more accurate, well... that's a bit of a problem.

 

[Ialyrn]

@SlipZtrEm That is an awesome way of putting things into perspective in this regard, brilliant post.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Even PC sims are not accurate when it comes to replicating car stats or setup as in real life - the RUF CTR in AC is good example, even the 90's tire has been said to be having a bit too much grip The way I play is different than most people Most don't care if the stock vehicle in their game more often are not accurate ( from stats - weight + distribution, power, gearing, LSD and suspension/spring rate/alignment ), yet they often said certain games is better than other because the cars sounds better and drive better ( more realistic ) to them.

If replicating a car means to handicap a car, then I am speechless - replica is fixing a car in my terms The work I did to built replicas took a lot of time and research, sometimes if there's more data I used cornering speed and cornering G's as reference, not just lap time. I even often get as close as possible to real life lap driving pace ( from throttle timing, braking points and shift points ) This is after trying to get as close as possible to the real car data ( more or less power + weight ), even if it means reducing the stock tire to lower grip or increasing it, PD always give higher grip tire as stock.
Like this, I don't handicap the car with lesser tire on this one, as the real car uses sticky street legal semi slick :



- GT6 tire is a compromise on this car, it should be somewhere between SH and SM A regular TT driver drove it and can beat the lap time with CS, but he's driving like an alien - maximizing the physics engine limit like in GTA and the lap do not resemble the real lap at all

Of course comparison can be done between games in any way one's wanted, just make them on same stock condition ( which varies in accuracy between games ), then be done with it like most experts reviewer Did they know that even the spring rate and alignment difference can give greater effect than having lesser grip tire Making both cars have the exact same setup and similar tire grip level would be the most decent comparison.

For me, the way I would find definite tire that should have similar grip is to build both cars GT6 and FM5 by using replica approach like the HKS CZ200S above. This way I'll know both cars have as closely possible tire that grips similar to actual stock car IRL within each respective physics engine. Then I can get a driver ( who never drive it ) to drive both in same pace, and see if time between games are close or not. No need to compare it to real life time anymore ( that is only good to find which tire closely resemble fitted tire IRL when stock )

Now I remembered Nissan GTR ('07 to the latest Nismo ) in GT6 is not even correct Weight distribution has always been wrong, and this is Nissan, Kaz won't be proud Just found out FM5 Nissan GTR Black Edition weight distribution also incorrect, but closer than GT6. Viper GTS 2013 weight is also off in both games Fm5 is lower - closer to dry weight, while GT6 closer to curb weight.

If I have AC or Pcars or FM5, I would do the same, lots of fixing / replicas on at least on stock road cars, maybe open a garage here if I have enough time to spare

 

[ImaRobot]

If replicating a car means to handicap a car, then I am speechless - replica is fixing a car in my terms The work I did to built replicas took a lot of time and research, sometimes if there's more data I used cornering speed and cornering G's as reference, not just lap time.

If anything, this just further confirms how utterly pointless it is to compare lap times between the two games, especially when people consider "replicas" on the basis of how much they need to handicap a car, tires-wise, to hit the same lap times as it does in real life. Lap times alone do not mean a car is more realistic.

If a game is claiming "real driving simulator" status, and needs all sorts of (unique) finessing for each car to be considered more accurate, well... that's a bit of a problem.

See the problem here?

I even often get as close as possible to real life lap driving pace ( from throttle timing, braking points and shift points ) This is after trying to get as close as possible to the real car data ( more or less power + weight ), even if it means reducing the stock tire to lower grip or increasing it, PD always give higher grip tire as stock.
Like this, I don't handicap the car with lesser tire on this one, as the real car uses sticky street legal semi slick :

So you purposely slow down to match the time? Or am I just reading this wrong?

A handicap can work as a disadvantage, or an advantage, its still the same thing.

Most don't care if the stock vehicle in their game more often are not accurate ( from stats - weight + distribution, power, gearing, LSD and suspension/spring rate/alignment ), yet they often said certain games is better than other because the cars sounds better and drive better ( more realistic ) to them.

Actually, quite alot of people care. It comes directly into play when people want to compare physics. Last sentence has nothing to do with what your talking about.

Of course comparison can be done between games in any way one's wanted, just make them on same stock condition ( which varies in accuracy between games ), then be done with it like most experts reviewer Did they know that even the spring rate and alignment difference can give greater effect than having lesser grip tire Making both cars have the exact same setup and similar tire grip level would be the most decent comparison.

Still, the point would be moot as the differences between the two games would be enough to throw off everything. You want to replicate cars per game, you wont be able to use the same settings for both games so they're going to be vastly different. With two different set-ups, how would you even conduct an accurate test?

 

[ALB123]

Ummm, I never said a single word about trying to figure out which game was "more realistic". In fact, the first sentence of my second paragraph says exactly the opposite. That is not why I asked my original question. I wanted to know if there is any sense in my brother and I even discussing our lap times of our two different games - if they would translate toward each other. It's not about finding out which is closer to real life or any of that nonsense. I guess I should have known better than to try and have this conversation on this website. Please, close the thread if you could Moderators.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

See the problem here?

I already knew the problem since GT5, I never said GT is better or perfect, it's full of flaws, that's why I mainly built and drive replicas I don't care what the box says long time ago

So you purposely [strike]slow down[/strike] drive to match the time? Or am I just reading this wrong?

Yes and no We all know in virtual world, driving is different than in real world. Most can push a car harder, quicker than even a pro driver ever could do in a game. My test lap are all done in GT6 offline - test drive or arcade time trial - there's no tire wear there. Much too easy for someone to drive far quicker than a real car could ever do by overworking the tires without any real drama or bad effects. This also cause the driving pace more often to be much quicker in game than IRL. You could throw a car around harder without fearing any risk of crashing or going off the track. If you know how GT Academy laps were driven ( exploiting the physics unique traits ), than you know that if one drive my replica like that, it would surely be quicker than the real lap it used as reference

I am driving with stick, GT6 has auto clutch, and shift times often times are unlike the real car I replicated. Which is why, I depending on the actual car lap, I might lift the throttle on shift up and blip it on shift down ( sort of heel and toe )
The pace also very important, I saw the real car video ( the HKS CZ200S ) a few times to get a good understanding how far the driver pushed the car, how aggressive he brake and on throttle on exit. That sort of info are very crucial to help determine which tire suits best.

If I drive with the same pace like the GT6 vs real life video, but not with SM, say SH or CS tire, the lap time would slower, but I can also drive with higher pace using SM and be quicker by at least 1 second than the real car lap. I can be quicker because it's a game , I won't dare to push as hard or harder than Taniguchi did IRL.
The tire is not perfect, and if you read the notes of the actual post of the replica, I wrote that the tire should have traction of SM and lateral grip of SH.

A handicap can work as a disadvantage, or an advantage, its still the same thing.

Disadvantage / advantage for what end ? Most of my replicas were built as close as possible to real car specs ( which means a lot of fixing ), the tires are the next step, to find tire that provides the grip level similar to what the real car have ( in this case I used real car lap times as reference/base ). That was the main purpose. I am building cars NOT to win a race or time trial competition or game vs game. I am after realistic driving experience, which means at the very least accurate car stats, setup and tire fitted. If it's slower than the stock condition car, so be it

One can still drive a car in realistic pace or just go rocket ship alien pace

Actually, quite alot of people care. It comes directly into play when people want to compare physics. Last sentence has nothing to do with what your talking about.

Funny My garage has much lower interests from GTP goers, take a look at other tuners garage and see how many more people visited and used their tunes ( which often result in cars that drive similar to each other - losing their uniqueness via ballast, ride height exploits etc )

How many FM5 players mentioned about of the cars having wrong weight ? wrong weigh distribution ? or any other stats or stock setup that are not accurate ? Those 2 alone can have great effect of how the car drives/handle.

Still, the point would be moot as the differences between the two games would be enough to throw off everything. You want to replicate cars per game, you wont be able to use the same settings for both games so they're going to be vastly different. With two different set-ups, how would you even conduct an accurate test?

My 1st post was this :

Tires would be major issue, need to built exact same car, preferably a replica that is built with real life lap time as reference, that way you have 2 cars with similar tire grip level. Put same setup on both cars and driven by same person with same pace, see which one is quicker/slower.

Nissan GTR would be good base car for comparison or SRT Viper GTS 2013, although the real car spring rate can't be replicated in GT6 and GT6 Viper has so many errors in stats and settings Reminds me of the silly GT6 vs FM5 video using Viper GTS '13 , GT6 Viper uses sports tire in the comparison to FM5 at Bathurst even CS is more than enough to replicate real car stock tire. I doubt FM5 Viper stock spring rate would be correct as well.

I was mainly concerned about tire grip level of stock car in both games, they are not the same obviously. Then I talked about the same car having different setup/stats in both games. I give my thoughts about finding similar tire grip level for both games, by building replicas of the real stock car ( which for Viper GTS 2013 can use laguna seca lap by motortrend as reference ) Weight + distribution of Viper would need fixing to get accurate same weight in both games, then setups.

The end result would be having a car in both games with approximately similar tire grip level, GT6 might have CS tire, Fm5 might have street tire ? I don't have FM5 , but I guess one tire level down.

Now, as I researched more and having read what you said, even if someone did do the replica for both games and have similar tire grip level on both ( same power, torque and weight stats ), the setups ( suspension and LSD ) of both cars would still be major contention, even if both car might drive closer to each other than when they were stock This thread is over

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Ummm, I never said a single word about trying to figure out which game was "more realistic". In fact, the first sentence of my second paragraph says exactly the opposite. That is not why I asked my original question. I wanted to know if there is any sense in my brother and I even discussing our lap times of our two different games - if they would translate toward each other. It's not about finding out which is closer to real life or any of that nonsense. I guess I should have known better than to try and have this conversation on this website. Please, close the thread if you could Moderators.

Sorry it got turn in to this, my 1st post here was not intended to be comparing which games is more realistic But to find which tire would be best to give similar grip in both games, I offered a method by building replica to use real car as reference data ( stats and setups ) so both cars can have the closest performance to each other.

The lap times of both these cars would be interesting when driven by your brother and you, switch place maybe You on FM5 and him in GT6 The closer both times to be, then both games physics are close to each other in giving out lap times. Of course, you can just compare both cars stock as is, and the result would be slightly different lap times, or a lot different.

As someone said, it might be just pointless exercise as both cars stock in FM5 and GT6 have different stats and setups anyway.

If you are still interested to do this in your on time just for fun, I can help giving you car data on Viper GTS 2013 as I have a replica in GT6 made already. Spring rates, alignment, weight + distribution are the prime data that needs fixing on both games. Weight already wrong on both Laguna seca would be a good track. I'll PM you if you wish.

 

[ALB123]

Sorry it got turn in to this, my 1st post here was not intended to be comparing which games is more realistic But to find which tire would be best to give similar grip in both games, I offered a method by building replica to use real car as reference data ( stats and setups ) so both cars can have the closest performance to each other.

The lap times of both these cars would be interesting when driven by your brother and you, switch place maybe You on FM5 and him in GT6 The closer both times to be, then both games physics are close to each other in giving out lap times. Of course, you can just compare both cars stock as is, and the result would be slightly different lap times, or a lot different.

As someone said, it might be just pointless exercise as both cars stock in FM5 and GT6 have different stats and setups anyway.

That is the problem we have. I live in Massachusetts and he lives in Tennessee. We are about 1000 miles apart. We both were virgins to our respective games. He bought an XBox One and Forza 5 maybe a month before I bought GT6. I have much more time to play GT6 than he does Forza 5, however, so I'm hoping I have acquired a little more skill than he has. Anyway...I really should have known not to come into this forum and ask a question like this. It's a perfectly innocent question. It should be easy enough to answer by anyone who owns both games. But, I was foolish to think so...that was my fault. I will un-watch this thread now. See ya on the other side @Ridox2JZGTE

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Ummm, I never said a single word about trying to figure out which game was "more realistic". In fact, the first sentence of my second paragraph says exactly the opposite. That is not why I asked my original question. I wanted to know if there is any sense in my brother and I even discussing our lap times of our two different games - if they would translate toward each other. It's not about finding out which is closer to real life or any of that nonsense. I guess I should have known better than to try and have this conversation on this website. Please, close the thread if you could Moderators.

While my response touched on the realism aspect, the first sentence is still the main point: you and your brother probably won't be able to directly compare lap times, partially because of how GT6 tends to have cars over-tired when "stock". You could go @Ridox2JZGTE's route, but it'll require quite a bit of work on both ends, so it'd be up to you if it's worth having more "fair" competition between you two.

I tried comparing GT5 and FM4 back in the day, and it never quite worked. Since it's impossible for you both to enjoy each others' games with the distance, I'd say your best bet is to look for another aspect of the games you guys can contrast and compare. Maybe drifting?