"Please critique my driving" or "Joey's POS 1'18.3 At Eifel" - ALL COMMENTS WELCOME

[JoeyFast22]

Hey Guys,

Please suggest ways that I can improve my technique by watching one of my best laps at Eifel below, a 1'18.3.

I really want to improve for next year and would appreciate any insight you could give, or secrets etc., now that the competition is over for many of us.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbAsuTmXeeo


As you can see, I struggled to find what was "fast" in spite of having some good sectors. I was consistently loosing a second to the top guys in sectors 2 and 3, with the horseshoe and the following low-speed complex pre-diabolica giving me the most trouble.

Thanks for ANY feedback you can give, if you think I suck then say it, break my balls, or post up a COME AT ME BRO lol

Thanks in advance for any and all comments. It is much appreciated!!👍👍

 

[zr1chris]

I noticed a few corners that werent very smooth. Turn 3 in particular (the right hander going up and over the hill). Also your lucky you didnt red coming out of the final corner. That corner need to be just a tad tighter. I would have pointed out the other corners that needed work but im not sure on the turn numbers. Smoothness and momentum is EVERYTHING. Keep working on throttle control to keep momentum and be smooth. You also might want to get a little better angle going into some corners. Solid lap just need some practice. Me included. I ran a 2:18.012. This track was all about rhythm. You had to start thinking about the next corner entry when you come out of your corners on this track.

 

[Choate51]

You were very raw on corner entries. Momentum is everything on a car with crap for grip.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Here's a map.

Here's a few of my thoughts:

T1 - You scrubbed off too much speed and turned in too early. I liked entering higher and let the car roll through the corner down to 75 and then gas it up. Exit speed is paramount.

T3 - Playing with the throttle will cause you to lose time. Enter the corner more smoothly and then cut in to the curbing.

T4 & T5 - You did that better than I ever could have.

T6 & T7 - A slight lift of the throttle may give you a better entry into T7.

T13 - Too aggressive entering this corner. Try to carry speed in this corner without sliding the car. Also, let the car drift to the middle in order to get a better exit.

T25 - Didn't hit the apex there. Yeah, that was tough for me to hit consistently as well.


On a side note, what's the easiest way to create a YouTube of their fast lap? I want to post a lap of my laps too.

 

[zr1chris]

Turn 14 exit need to be tighter to set up for turn 15 entry IMO?? I think i got the turn numbers right. Also Turn 17 was just terrible. You do have some turns that i found you did really well 20-23 were really good especially 21 and 22.

 

[Seankf1105]

Here's a few of my thoughts:

T1 - You scrubbed off too much speed and turned in too early. I liked entering higher and let the car roll through the corner down to 75 and then gas it up. Exit speed is paramount.

T3 - Playing with the throttle will cause you to lose time. Enter the corner more smoothly and then cut in to the curbing.

T4 & T5 - You did that better than I ever could have.

T6 & T7 - A slight lift of the throttle may give you a better entry into T7.

T13 - Too aggressive entering this corner. Try to carry speed in this corner without sliding the car. Also, let the car drift to the middle in order to get a better exit.

T25 - Didn't hit the apex there. Yeah, that was tough for me to hit consistently as well.

+1 especially agree with T6 and T13. T25 looked pretty good as far as I know though about the entry and speed through there but I also had a lot of trouble through there.


Joey, are there any other parts of the lap where you immediatly knew you messed up while you were running the lap?

While I was still a tenth behind your time (was having serious trouble with T22-23, where it looks like you nailed perfectly 👍) here are some other small things I noticed after seriously studying the minor details to 2:16ers' laps and burning an image of the perfect laps in my mind lol, so most credit to those guys:

T14-T17 - needed to be tighter into the apex on T14 to set yourself up for T15 where I think you may have been huging a little too much at entry. I also noticed you lifted early going into T16, where you probably could have gone WOT almost all the way up to T16. Speed through T15-T16 seemed to be a lot more important than between T16-T17.

T17 & T18 - between these turns needed to go wider to the outside as far as possible, I'd imagine if you look at the data logger compared to a 2:16 you'd be loosing a couple mph down the straight. This was among one of my biggest issues that I noticed in the data logger lol.

T19-T21 - probably should have lifted earlier going into T19 to avoid going wide, subsequently causing you to have to drift the car to get it pointed towards and around T20. Seems like you scrubbed off a little too much speed through this section by your entrance into T19 alone. Also I think you wanted to go wide open throttle midway between T20 and T21 all the way up to braking for T22.

Hope that helps a bit 👍 (obviously, disregard any of this if 'aliens' suggest a better approach to any or all of this )

 

[Forcednduckshn]

LOL. Joe, you had some brilliant corners, nailing T1, and nailing T25. Seriously, what a monster of a run through T25. Brilliant.

Sean gave a great analysis. I'll add something specific to driving technique and elaborate on what Choate said. Specifically, the time you waste with the car scrubbing and wiggling at entry is what is costing you time. The lap is amazing to watch because you are beating the living snot out of the car and it's quite fun to watch you control it in such a way. Knowing your real world driving I'm not surprised you can huck around this pregnant yak of a car with such authority. You are great in every other way - just need to perfect the gentle loading of suspension under 5-10% braking input at corner entry to guide the car on the desired line at maximum cornering speed. And in terms of line, just use a simple rule of thumb...try to only get on the throttle when you know you don't need to get back on it again until it's time to modulate/feed in to WOT, bring this approach to your Time Trial efforts and the time begins to unlock itself. And how does Godzilla need to be driven? However SHE WANTS to be driven. Don't fight the car, give her what she needs and she'll reward you with monstrous pace.

Your WOT blip at T4 is just gnarly. I lol'd. And boy, I could use a laugh after the past 24 hours.

BTW...the lap I red lit, was ~.5 up on my 17.0XX ghost in the second to last timing sector before T14

 

[scir16v]

I haven't looked at the replay, but I know t25 can be taken at about 132-135. It requires lifting off slightly on the throttle and turning in early to get the car pointed at the apex, after that feather the throttle slightly to keep the car in it's arc around the turn. I figured out T25 about thursday. I lost most of my time on T7, T8, T13, and T15-16. Here comes the if. If I had figured out those sets of turns, I would have had a sub 2:17. There were alot of turns that I came up light a frieght train and even passed Choate's 16.xxx time on a number of turns.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

It took two hours but I finally got this to work. Here's is my junky 2:17.9 lap for the whole world to see!



I already know a couple of things on that lap:

T3: Played with the throttle too much.
T4 & T5: I could never get this right.
T12: Wrong angle and ended up touching the grass.
T14: Slid a bit on entry.
T25: Missed the apex.

 

[RackAttack]

I think the main issue is, as other have mentioned, that you're losing a lot of momentum by throwing the car around and sliding it. You can get away with some of that, and you need to in some places, but from watching a lof of the top ghosts, a theme I noticed was smoothness.

Some turn by turn notes, and these are just my opinion of course:

T7-8: You stay out wide so you can get a better angle at the next turn. This was what I was doing originally as well, but found (and the faster ghosts showed this as well) that staying tighter and carrying more speed early there was quicker.
T10: two wheels in the grass on turn in induced some slide that lost you a bit of time, but not huge
T13: Others might disagree with me here, but I think you stayed too tight on this turn. I usually ended up double apexing it so that I could get on the gas earlier and carry more speed down the following straight.
T14-T16: I think this is probably where you lost the most time. missing the apex at 14 caused a tighter entry into 15, and less speed through 16. You also could've used a lot more of the curbing on 16.
T19-T21: As others have said, too much entry speed at the top meant that you were outside and sliding for the rest of the turn. I usually never got above 104mph before braking there, and you got all the way to 106mph.

Here's my lap, also open to anyone who wants to critique. One thing I noticed was fairly large difference in lines, even between the top ghosts, which just tells me that there were many ways to attack this challenging track.

(available in 720p on youtube)

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I think the main issue is, as other have mentioned, that you're losing a lot of momentum by throwing the car around and sliding it. You can get away with some of that, and you need to in some places, but from watching a lof of the top ghosts, a theme I noticed was smoothness.

Some turn by turn notes, and these are just my opinion of course:

T7-8: You stay out wide so you can get a better angle at the next turn. This was what I was doing originally as well, but found (and the faster ghosts showed this as well) that staying tighter and carrying more speed early there was quicker.
T10: two wheels in the grass on turn in induced some slide that lost you a bit of time, but not huge
T13: Others might disagree with me here, but I think you stayed too tight on this turn. I usually ended up double apexing it so that I could get on the gas earlier and carry more speed down the following straight.
T14-T16: I think this is probably where you lost the most time. missing the apex at 14 caused a tighter entry into 15, and less speed through 16. You also could've used a lot more of the curbing on 16.
T19-T21: As others have said, too much entry speed at the top meant that you were outside and sliding for the rest of the turn. I usually never got above 104mph before braking there, and you got all the way to 106mph.

Here's my lap, also open to anyone who wants to critique. One thing I noticed was fairly large difference in lines, even between the top ghosts, which just tells me that there were many ways to attack this challenging track.

(available in 720p on youtube)

I would provide pointers except I was much slower than you.

I do agree about T13, though. I've tried both hugging tight and going a bit wide and any time you gain going tight into the corner is lost and then some at exit.

 

[JoeyFast22]

Just got done reading everyone's comments. Lots of thoughtful analysis; very much appreciated.

Someone asked about video uploading...I got a little box from Radio Shack for $50, its a Gigaware (Model# 25-1141) Video Converter. It's meant to accept a crappy composite video feed so you can convert old VHS tapes to DVDs and stuff. It comes with it's own software so you can convert any live video feed (like a PS3 feed!) to an mpeg video and other formats:

I searched online for high-definition devices like this and they are in the $100 range, maybe a touch cheaper in some places. In other words, one can use the original low-def video output cable that came with the PS3 to attach to this device.

I have to run out to work now, I see lots of similiar statements about technique and line and that makes me feel good. Will post a detailed response tonight! Thanks again!

 

[blindsidefive0]

Hey Joe - with the crappy GT-R physics, you can't maintain a slide to stay fast. In the 370z at Tsukuba you could slide a bit into some of the corners to maintain speed. However, with the way the GT-R's noob-proof awd system kicks in it slows you down overall.

I'm going to echo some of the feedback from Sean/Nick - basically the trick to this car/track is bleeding speed as slowly and smoothly as possible. Imagine you are driving a 2 ton "momentum" car. This is pretty much faster with all cars - it's just easier to do with sliding than brake modulation in some cases. However, even in cars where sliding might seem faster, GTP_TimeAttack has showed us that grip driving can be just as fast if you can modulate the brake pedal with a god-like control.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Just got done reading everyone's comments. Lots of thoughtful analysis; very much appreciated.

Someone asked about video uploading...I got a little box from Radio Shack for $50, its a Gigaware (Model# 25-1141) Video Converter. It's meant to accept a crappy composite video feed so you can convert old VHS tapes to DVDs and stuff. It comes with it's own software so you can convert any live video feed (like a PS3 feed!) to an mpeg video and other formats:

I searched online for high-definition devices like this and they are in the $100 range, maybe a touch cheaper in some places. In other words, one can use the original low-def video output cable that came with the PS3 to attach to this device.

Interesting. If I was really fast, I might go this route.

For now, I'll stick to using my camera although a tripod would help keep the shot more steady. I'll see if I can upload my Indy lap tonight. 👍

 

[JoeyFast22]

I just watched my replay along with the high 2'17 and low 2'17 posted in this thread. It really confirms what has been said by just about everyone here; one has to be very delicate with braking inputs and car positioning at corner entry to ensure the car doesn't enter a terminal understeer or oversteer condition. Once the car is settled, the same has to be done for the throttle. This basic principle applies to all cars and tracks in one form or another; the effects are made more apparent with a heavy, high-power car with very low tire grip.

What Blindside mentioned makes some sense too- it seemed like a lot of the real-life tricks that I've learned from autocrossing didn't really work like I thought they would here, for a variety of reasons. For example, I was really throwing the car into the horseshoe (T13) thinking I could use that as an opportunity to get on the throttle as early as possible and let the masterful 4wd system bite down and launch me off the corner. I was wrong. As the car was sliding sideways it wasn't gaining any speed or accelerating, in spite of having the throttle completely wide open. My instincts tell me that the car should have been sliding sideways, drifting out a little, but also accelerating (with 500hp!) It was not accelerating at all. Is this me having an incorrect understanding of a fundamental principle of awd driving characteristics, or is the algorithm or "coding" for the car's physics model / awd system flawed?

Anyway, back to the basics here: It is clear to me now that I was overloading the tires at just about every corner; effectively overdriving the front and/or the rear. This was indicated by the frequent color change from blue to red on the tire indicator.

I'm hurt that I wasn't able to learn and adapt quickly enough to ever be a threat in this competition. At the same time I think it is completely and utterly awesome what I have witnessed and experienced in only a couple of months driving the simulator, including the people I've had the pleasure of competing against.

I bet that as more people post up replays we will see more of the same - the faster guys being more delicate, dare I say gentle, with the "slow" guys replays looking like they just robbed a bank.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I bet that as more people post up replays we will see more of the same - the faster guys being more delicate, dare I say gentle, with the "slow" guys replays looking like they just robbed a bank.

That's the thing, though. Most of the cars chosen for the Academy has had understeer issues so anyone with an aggressive driving style was going to pay the price by scrubbing off too much speed. Different drivers have been able to find success with different driving styles but in this competition, that doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm not sure about others here but I had to set my feedback all the way down to 2 to deal with the understeer. Now, that in itself is causing problems since now I have to relearn using the wheel with a higher setting. Otherwise, spinouts become more common for me (I looked like a noob online today) and some cars become all but undrivable for me (F40, Zonda R).

On a side note, I uploaded my Indy lap for everyone's amusement. Enjoy!

 

[cenk]

it wasn't gaining any speed or accelerating, in spite of having the throttle completely wide open.

This is what I exactly thought about my own lap..I got stuck at 2:17.8XX on saturday..killed myself but still was not any faster although it felt like I was

I think the right approach was easing into the throttle and closing on it with less than 45-60 degrees of steering angle.. Anything more is lost time in this car..

This is the fastest AWD non-tube chassis time attack car in the world, running on R comps. Would fit my driving style perfectly