Porsche 991 to have 7spd manual

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Mikenstace
Have just read an article about the next 911, currently known as the 991.

Looks quite interesting, especially with the new manual 'box based on the PDK, the direct injection engines and the feel of the engine position.

Back in February 2011, in South Africa, Top Gear climbed into a car that looked very much like a Porsche 911, but such was the secrecy we can only talk about it now.

A 911, but not as we know it. Under the tape and mesh lights covers and false turbo-look side vents, it's running all-new body and chassis. But then when did a new 911 ever look much different from the old? Not since ever.

We'll have the full story in next month's Top Gear magazine, but for now, here are some of our impressions of our time in Porsche's prototype 991, only the third new 911 design in the car's 48 year history. It's going to be formally unveiled at the Frankfurt show in September.

First, the big surprise: it felt less rear-engined. Less 911-ish, more Cayman-like. Because, in a way, it is. Of course, the engine's where it always was, hanging out the back. But the rear wheels have moved 70mm back to meet it, reducing its leverage over the rest of the car. So the mass of that engine has less see-sawing effect when you go over crests or dips. If those events coincide with a corner, there's less corkscrewing body movement.

The new shell also has its front wheels further forward, and a more sloping windscreen centreline. So it's roomier and more aerodynamic. But the screen pillars are still fairly upright to make the car as easy to see out of as all 911s are, and most other supercars defiantly aren't.

Another fundamental change: for the sake of fuel economy, the steering is now electrically powered. Potentially dismaying news, given the dishearteningly remote systems used elsewhere, but August Achleitner, boss of the 911 line and our driver for the day, is insistent it will offer less interference on straights but the same feel as the old car in bends. We shall see.

Though the longer wheelbase gives a little more cabin room, the overhangs are shorter, so overall length doesn't rise much. And it's no wider. Still a compact, useable, glassy car. Good.

They moved the wheels by changing the gearbox - the new manual is a version of the current three-shaft PDK box, and this has its driveshaft flanges further back than the old manual. Obviously in converting the PDK to a manual, they won't have blocked off any of its seven speeds. Prizes for naming any other seven-speed manual? (Trucks and tractors not allowed.)

But the new platform isn't just about moving the wheelbase relative to the weight, it's also about actually cutting weight. Aluminium is used for the floor, the main structure front and rear and most of the external panels. The rear wing and inner and outer bodysides are steel and so is the front crash structure. The new shell and other weight improvements shave somewhere between 30-40kg out of a base 911 Carrera.

If they'd left it as all-steel, it would have put on weight, not lost it. Maybe by as much as 60kg heavier than before, because it's longer and has more kit and its standard wheels have gone up to 19-inch.

Performance numbers aren't final yet, but in the Porsche way they'll all be a sliver better than the cars they sell now. For economy the base car drops to a 3.4-litre from a 3.6, but it's still very slightly more powerful than it was at 350bhp - 20bhp more than a Cayman R's 3.4 because it has its own cylinder heads and revs higher.

The Carrera S still has a 3.8-litre, but now revving up to 7800 because of new injectors, camshafts and their drive. That means 400bhp.

And economy rises on all. Over recent history Porsche has always managed at least a 10-percent improvement for each new model. The engineers don't shake their heads when you suggest they've done the same this time. That would put the 3.4 Carrera PDK at about 33mpg and roughly 200g/km. That's ruddy unbelievable for a GT that'll do 0-60 in the mid-fours.

Style-wise, the full drum-roll debut is at the Frankfurt show in September - to make our prototype resemble 997s the car was well-padded with matte-black plastic wraps to dull the curves, plus bra and pants front and rear. But you can see the curvier line to the top of the rear wings, and the way the rear window sits slightly recessed in the bodywork. Inside the cabin uses lots of Panamera parts, but it doesn't feel like a saloon in here. Just a sports car with shedloads of buttons for all the optional equipment.
 
Pretty impressive when a Carrera S is making what used to be GT3 power.
 
I think this should be the official thread for the 991, rather than just a part of the news for it.
 
Personally, I'd love to see Porsche have the balls to make a mid-engined 911 (i don't care for traditions). O.k., of course they don't, but this description sounds interesting. Maybe in 10 to 15 years PD will also finally integrate Porsche into GT7 and I'll be able to catch a glimpse of how they drive :sly:
 
Dunno about how this goes, I will be very sad if one day the base 911 has 500ps and GT2 ends up having 850....this numbers game has to stop someday.

I hope they will return to a smaller chassis like the 993 but still retain the composed nature of the 997.
 
So its a 7-Speed DSG, or stick shift?

Stick shift. Though there'll be a DSG too which presumably will have seven or more gears.

I dunno. Every time Porsche releases a new 911 I dislike it for a short time and then invariably concede that it's vastly better than the previous one in all quantifiable areas. I'd echo concerns that I'm not keen on the whole power race though (I'd prefer smaller size, less weight for performance - not that a 911 has ever really been a big or heavy car, to Porsche's credit), so if I were ever to buy a 911 I'd still make it a 993 or earlier, and if I ever came across some money then it'd be a 1960s one sitting in the driveway.

As for seven manual speeds, meh. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. People think it's needless complication or that you'll be stirring the gearbox non-stop, but a vast number of cars have 6-speed gearboxes already so I can't see why 7 would be a major problem.

Put it this way, people have probably said the same thing every single time someone introduces an extra gear. An old 1950s Corvette with a manual box has two gears. My hotted-up shopping car has 6 (and it could do with a 7th for cruising!).
 
I agree that 7th wouldn't be a problem, except where to put it! It might be too crowded in the box.

It is, I believe, the first 7 speed manual car. There have been lorries and busses with more than 6, and many semi auto and full auto boxes.

The 911 has never really inspired me though, maybe there are too many about, maybe there are too many variants, but as an everyday day car it's too expensive, as a super car it isn't special enough. It sits in between them. I still respect the achievements that Porsche make with each model though.
 
5 gears are enough for me.

I find it amusing that cars keep getting more power and more linear powerbands with so much more usable torque....theoretically negating the need of ever increasing numbers of ratios for transmissions, but instead the opposite is true. Now we have 8 speed automatics? Give me a break. Give me a 5 speed stick any day...
 
5 gears are enough for me.

I find it amusing that cars keep getting more power and more linear powerbands with so much more usable torque....theoretically negating the need of ever increasing numbers of ratios for transmissions, but instead the opposite is true. Now we have 8 speed automatics? Give me a break. Give me a 5 speed stick any day...

As long as the gears are usable, it doesn't matter how many there are. All the current 7, 8 and even 9 speed autos are brilliant at what they do. Do they change gears frequently? Probably, but since they're so incredibly smooth you can neither hear nor feel it, who cares?

And five gears? Great - apart from the times that it's too few. Many modern cars are designed around a six-speed manual (diesels especially). They've done this for a reason - you get more acceleration and better cruising at the same time (again, especially in diesels that tend to have a narrower power band).

To be honest, as long as the gearshift quality is good and the 'box is well matched to the engine I don't care how many gears there are.
 
cars keep getting more power and more linear powerbands with so much more usable torque
Which means they have more torque down low. Which means they can dedicate the highest gear to be a fuel-saving gear. Which means that more gears is better so the normal driving ratios don't have to be spread too far apart.
 
Toronado
Which means they have more torque down low. Which means they can dedicate the highest gear to be a fuel-saving gear. Which means that more gears is better so the normal driving ratios don't have to be spread too far apart.

Exactly. I have just moved from a 5 speed diesel to a 6 speed and it makes a huge difference to fuel economy and driving comfort (quieter), without sacrificing usability.

More gears means you can have taller gears at the top, meaning more refinement at higher speeds. The only problem is that with a 7 speed manual there is 1st, 3rd, 5th and 7th close to each other at the top. I hope they don't put reverse under 7th, imagine missing 6th and hitting that!
 
It just wouldn't engage the gear.

I actually like the idea of the 7-speed stickshift, that would indeed mean a vote to the puritanism, even though the PDK is simply the best option all around for Porsche today.
 
^It wouldn't engage but your transmission won't really like you.

Heres a photo straight from TopGear.com



Whats the difference between this one and the 997? It looks like all they did was slap on black rims, a bigger engine, and a 7-Speed.

porsche911turbo26210245kq-4df36d49a759d.jpg


If I were to ask a random person on the street on which one was which, nobody could tell the difference. I love Porsche, and I thought past 911's looked alike, but this is a carbon copy!
 
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It's a development mule, duh. It's supposed to look inconspicuous to some extent.
 
Dunno about how this goes, I will be very sad if one day the base 911 has 500ps and GT2 ends up having 850....this numbers game has to stop someday.

I hope they will return to a smaller chassis like the 993 but still retain the composed nature of the 997.

Not going to happen. The 911 moved up a size to make room for the Boxster, it's unlikely to ever get any smaller. If the opposition has more powerful cars then Porsche will want to keep up.

5 gears are enough for me.

I find it amusing that cars keep getting more power and more linear powerbands with so much more usable torque....theoretically negating the need of ever increasing numbers of ratios for transmissions, but instead the opposite is true. Now we have 8 speed automatics? Give me a break. Give me a 5 speed stick any day...

I'd have thought that the 7spd manuals and 8spd autos we are seing around now, are utilized to conform with emissions regulations.

I actually like the idea of the 7-speed stickshift, that would indeed mean a vote to the puritanism, even though the PDK is simply the best option all around for Porsche today.

Try telling that to the GT3 and GT3 RS engineers and buyers. People still enjoy changing their own gears and always will.
 
An old 1950s Corvette with a manual box has two gears.

Off topic: No the automatics had 2 gears (powerglide), the base manual gearbox had 3 gears and I believe they offered 4 speeds as well when they first started offering manuals (in 1956? think so.)

On topic: a seven speed manual gearbox will at least give the 911 a lot of attention. I would have been happy with a 4-speed in my car.
 
Off topic: No the automatics had 2 gears (powerglide), the base manual gearbox had 3 gears and I believe they offered 4 speeds as well when they first started offering manuals (in 1956? think so.)

On topic: a seven speed manual gearbox will at least give the 911 a lot of attention. I would have been happy with a 4-speed in my car. The 3 speed auto I have reaches the highest gear at around 20 mph, but it doesn`t rev too much at our legal speeds, I usually drive at less than 2000 RPM. And it has economy gears in the rear end:sly:
 
In high powered vehicles you rarely, RARELY, need more than 5 or 6 gears on a circuit, for road use the more the merrier until invariably, at some point, the added weight must have a greater negative effect than the positives gained.
 
Off topic: No the automatics had 2 gears (powerglide), the base manual gearbox had 3 gears and I believe they offered 4 speeds as well when they first started offering manuals (in 1956? think so.)

Ah sorry, I got confused. Still, my point stands. Older cars had fewer gears and every time someone offers more there are invariably people who are happy enough with the number they've got.

In high powered vehicles you rarely, RARELY, need more than 5 or 6 gears on a circuit, for road use the more the merrier until invariably, at some point, the added weight must have a greater negative effect than the positives gained.

I'd expect so, though you presume if Porsche is going for 7 then they aren't doing it for the hell of it (and given all that weight out back, they must have found a way to make it fairly light too). I expect it'll be perfectly matched to the new engine and the 7th cog is almost certainly going to be for economy use - will probably give the car some pretty impressive fuel economy in official tests.
 
Even now, most 6 speeds are 4 normal forward gears and two overdrives. Will this be 4 forward gears and three overdrives? If so...why? And if it's 5 normal gears, you will be shifting quite a bit.

The ultimate high-ratio transmission, the god-awful CVT, doesn't do terribly much better for fuel efficiency than a conventional 5 or 6 speed, if better at all. Adding ratios to a traditional box is just inching towards the doom of CVT hell.

Do you think that a 7th gear overdrive will somehow be better than a 6th gear overdrive? The ratio will probably still be around .70 or something, and the other gears will just be shorter to accommodate. I can see in-town economy marginally improving, maybe, but in-town economy is mostly up to the driver anyways. On the highway, whether it be a .75 7th gear or a .75 6th gear, the RPM's, and therefore economy, will be exactly the same. It makes sense in a super-fast DSG box or traditional planetary setup, but not for a proper manual.
 
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I think you're missing the point. The 7th gear is an overdrive for economy and emissions regulations. In regular driving, with the cogs spaced that closely, you'll use 5 of the 7 gears available most of the time. 2nd gear will suffice for pulling away from stop, 6th gear will be sufficiant for none autobahn/motorway/freeway cruising.
 
If reverse is placed below 7th, you still won't be able to accidentally slam into it. Reverse is blocked off in at least all modern cars once moving forward at a certain (slow) speed. You can't even push the shifter over all the way to where the reverse gate is on my Civic unless you're below that speed. Haven't tried to grenade my MR2 to see if reverse is blocked. :lol:
 
Even now, most 6 speeds are 4 normal forward gears and two overdrives. Will this be 4 forward gears and three overdrives? If so...why? And if it's 5 normal gears, you will be shifting quite a bit.

We're talking about a likely 180mph car for the base Carrera. You're hardly going to be shifting that much in normal driving. If it topped out at 100mph then 7 gears would be a bit excessive. At nearly double that it's probably about right.
 
Try telling that to the GT3 and GT3 RS engineers and buyers. People still enjoy changing their own gears and always will.

No question on that, I would rather have a proper manual than a PDK, however for marketing purposes the PDK pleases the average auto owner, whilst making the car even faster, which is appealing to ( most of ) the enthusiasts.
 
I'm hoping that the 7th gear is good for high speed cruising (like 75+ mph) because a lot of America (and the Autobahn) travels at speeds in excess of that. I'm sure my car doesn't get the best fuel economy out of sixth spinning at 3000 rpm in a gear that probably is optimized for something much slower.
 
RPM matters less than you think. It depends more on how much load there is on the motor and how much throttle you have to use to maintain speed. My MR2 is able to pull off 30mpg without the use of 5th. So 55mph is already above 3000rpm. 70mph is around 4200rpm.
 
A lot of the world travels at 75+. UK average is probably around 85 now - if you sit at 80 the majority of traffic passes you still, rather than the other way around.

The main idea of good motorway gearing is not needing to change down all the time and use more revs, so a 7th gear that offers good flexibility (and with the new engine I see no reason why it can't) will be best for economy. If it's sitting below that magic barrier above which friction exponentially increases and economy goes swiftly down (usually above about 2,500rpm) then even better.
 
I agree that 7th wouldn't be a problem, except where to put it! It might be too crowded in the box.

It is, I believe, the first 7 speed manual car. There have been lorries and busses with more than 6, and many semi auto and full auto boxes.

IIRC, some 60's Soviet car had a 8-gear manual transmission
 

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