Porsche v Red Ken (& The CC)

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Touring Mars

Touring Mars

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Porsche are set to ask for judicial review of the decision by the London Mayor, Ken Livingstone, to increase the London congestion charge to £25 for cars that emit more than 225 g/km of CO2. Porsche argue that the planned increase is unjust and will unfairly penalise luxury car owners, while Ken says "There will be losers but overall we will all gain."... The flipside is that cars which emit less than 120 g/km of CO2 will be entitled to a 100% rebate on the existing charge of £8 to enter Central London by car.

Article...

Will be interesting to see if more manufacturers directly object to the plans...
 
Porsche FTW! Anything to screw up Big Ken's plans I'm all for.
 
I wonder if this is going to end up losing money for London. The full refund on "green" cars will probably reduce income much more than the increased tax on luxury cars will bring in.
 
Most likely.

If they did that to Detroit, it would make a difference, and they'd make money. Not London...
 
I suppose BMW, Audi, Jaguar et al will oppose it as well. It's a plausible reason for buyers to look at cheaper motoring.

Budget heroes like Kia, Hyundai and Honda and others like will be against it.

It leaves companies like Volvo, VW and Fiat in somewhat of a grey area though.

This has the potential to widen the gap between manufacturers. :(
 
It'll only affect cars that are in the EU G category. It seems that most of the superminis are well under 200, which seems to be what most people are driving. Are we just looking at big luxury sedans or are cars like the A4 going to be affected too?
 
I'm not sure whether it will affect existing cars or just new cars - presumably existing cars...

But then, how are they going to discern what cars are emitting what? Plenty of older cars are much more polluting than newer cars, but a brand new Porsche will be taxed regardless whereas an older car which pollutes just as much might get off since that model is deemed below the set limit... (even if in reality individual cars are over the limit)

If they are going to tax drivers whose cars emit CO2 at a higher rate, wouldn't it be fairer to also tax drivers on the amount of miles they do too? Why should someone who does one 1km journey in Central London in a Porsche be taxed when someone who does a 10km round-trip everyday in a car that pollutes at half the rate not be taxed atleast as much (despite the fact that they'd be polluting 5 times more than the Porsche driver)? They even say that low-emission rate cars would be exempted from the congestion charge altogether, regardless of the amount of pollution they actually cause!

Although I am all for taking steps to reduce CO2 emissions, I can't say that this sounds fair at all.
 
I would assume that unless you are doing delivery work or something, your average trip for a luxury car would be about the same as an econobox in central London. Having a distance tax would be interesting, but also very hard to implement.

It is a good point about it not really helping emissions. The number of cleaner cars will probably increase by a lot, probably more to offset whatever more polluting cars stay out. And I would assume that if you can afford the car in the first place, $50 to $100 per week to enter the city shouldn't be too much of an issue. I could see it cutting back on pointless cruising (if you guys do that there).
 
Let's remember that we are talking about £25 a day here! That means someone driving a luxury car into London for work every day would have to pay £8500/$17000 per annum just to do that!! Seems a little unfair given that someone driving something that pollutes less than half (and regardless of total emissions) gets to pay nothing...
 
I was assuming that they would probably take a lesser car (or the Tube) to work, and drive around showing off on the weekends. Are there that many people who drive to work in the central city anyway? And how much are they already paying for parking?
 
I may not live in London but I feel for you guys over there (Thanks TopGear!). Ken needs to be buried alive.
 
I see an influx of diesel trucks and Veyrons being driven into London daily. If you have to pay a fine like that, you might as well pollute the air as much as you possibly can. Better yet, a tuned diesel truck that blows black smoke everywhere.
 
That figures: someone will know how to play the system and find a loophole.

Does said fee increase as car gets older and more out of tune? or is it just purely as stock?
 
Danachronism
It leaves companies like Volvo, VW and Fiat in somewhat of a grey area though.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, Fiat is actually the greenest company in selling cars in the UK, iirc. Their CO2 average is far lower than anybody elses.
 
Jim Prower
That figures: someone will know how to play the system and find a loophole.

Does said fee increase as car gets older and more out of tune? or is it just purely as stock?
Click to expand...

It's purely as stock.

VED - "car tax" - has a similar stock "carbons" sliding scale. Cars are placed into bands as new and charged accordingly. Cars brought out before the system (2001) still pay the old flat rate - despite the fact that some use more oil than petrol, and emit more smoke than a forest fire.

Interestingly, the Ariel Atom 2, which uses the Honda 2.0 iVTEC engine, has an official carbon rating of ZERO.
 
Hmmm... good idea... if you're paying the franchise tax, does it matter what you actually do with it? Last I heard, it wasn't illegal to own a taxi and not use it to make money. Stupid, but not illegal... :dopey:

Touring Mars
They even say that low-emission rate cars would be exempted from the congestion charge altogether, regardless of the amount of pollution they actually cause!
Click to expand...

This is what has always gotten to me about these damn eco-laws. Like those encouraging people with hybrids to use the carpool lane without carpooling? And that's beneficial for the planet how?

They should just attach little black boxes to every single registerd car that record how much fuel you use, and how many passengers are in the car at the time you use it, and tax you accordingly. Kinda BIg-Brother-ish, but if they're serious about the environment, it's a lot simpler.
 
Awesome. Now give me a set of side panels, a roof, and some lexan for windows.

EDIT: Directed at Famine's post.
 
Famine
Interestingly, the Ariel Atom 2, which uses the Honda 2.0 iVTEC engine, has an official carbon rating of ZERO.
Click to expand...
Thats because you get lots of Nitrogen, Oxygen, and a trace amount of Argon with every Atom.
 
Rotary Junkie
Awesome. Now give me a set of side panels, a roof, and some lexan for windows.
Click to expand...

What are you, a man or a mouse?

Atom owners pay a special VED rate which is calculated using voodoo and a random number generator. I'm not sure how Atoms fare with the Congestion Charge...
 
Danachronism
I suppose BMW, Audi, Jaguar et al will oppose it as well. It's a plausible reason for buyers to look at cheaper motoring.

Budget heroes like Kia, Hyundai and Honda and others like will be against it.

It leaves companies like Volvo, VW and Fiat in somewhat of a grey area though.

This has the potential to widen the gap between manufacturers. :(
Click to expand...
How in god's name do you have FIAT in the grey area when they absolutely define budget heroes? I imagine Honda would have much more qualms as the sell cars like the Legend/RL and soon a V10 NSX-replacement, something FIAT does not.
 

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