Possible Clutch or Gearbox Problem

Discussion in 'Motorcycles' started by Brando-K, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. Brando-K

    Brando-K Premium

    Messages:
    2,406
    Location:
    Australia
    I recently got my first motorbike, an 88-89 Honda VT250 Spada. It runs really well on the road, however if I do an emergency stop, and stop in a higher gear, it won't shift back down to first without me moving the bike backwards or forwards a little bit.

    I'm really not sure if it's meant to do that or if I should be able to go through gears while stationary.

    An extension of this problem can be seen when I park the bike. If I try to go through the gears it won't get past neutral. It will go down to first but it won't shift up.
    I just tried that again, but with my dad in the room, and the bike go through gears without a problem... I don't know why (I might have moved the bike an inch forwards or backwards). But the first question still stands.
    I know I just answered my own question but I'd like to see what you guys say/think about why the bike wouldn't change gear.

    Any information that people have would be nice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  2. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    It could be that the clutch is dragging, how much technical knowledge do you have of bikes?
    EDIT: Ignore my first point, I wasn't thinking straight. It should be fine that you can't shift without moving the bike. When you shift, there are little teeth called dogs that must mesh with each other in the gearbox. When you are moving, everything is spinning and it's easy to mesh to dogs because they are also spinning.
    But when you are stopped, the dogs stop too. This means that if the dogs do not line up when you stop, they will not mesh unless you move the bike and make the dogs change position. Every bike does this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  3. Brando-K

    Brando-K Premium

    Messages:
    2,406
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks for the info Bopop. I just wasn't sure if it was normal or not. I found this morning (as said above) that by moving the bike a small distance I could go through all my gears without problem.

    That's good to know. Now all I need to do is make sure that if I pull up quickly I move the bike before changing gear.
     
  4. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    No problem, I would shift down as you go though. :tup:
    Edit: 400th post Yay
     
  5. Brando-K

    Brando-K Premium

    Messages:
    2,406
    Location:
    Australia
    I always gear down normally, however like I said this is for an emergency stop. The instructors, where I got my licence, said that the best way to do them is to leave the bike in gear till the end right before you stop. This is so I don't need to try and change gear and stop the bike in an emergency.

    Anyway, thanks. And might I ask, do you ride? And if so what do you ride? Or do you just drive karts?
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  6. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    Yeah, for an emergency stop you wouldn't want to have to think about shifting, and then the transmission not shifting would be the least of your problems.

    I try to do anything that involves engines. I started riding when I was 5 with a Z50.
    Now I ride a 2008 Honda CRF230F for the trails and I also ride trials with a 2005 Sherco 200. Trials is trying to get through a difficult section of terrain without putting your foot down. It requires being able to stop, balance, and bounce the bike around. Look it up on YouTube.

    My dad just bought an 1988 RZ/RD350 and we are converting it into a race bike.
    I am quite lucky to have parents that support my riding and racing, most people would think that it is "dangerous". I also try to have a working knowledge of everything automotive, it helps when your whole life revolves around bikes, cars, aircraft, etc.
    Is this your first bike?
     
  7. Brando-K

    Brando-K Premium

    Messages:
    2,406
    Location:
    Australia
    I was actually watching the trials when I was doing the licensing course. The instructors had it up on the projector before we started the second day.

    Yeah it's my first bike.
    I know a little about engines, mechanics, etc. but not enough to pull it apart and be comfortable in the knowledge that it would still work once I put it all back together. (Timing chains, cams, etc. going back into the correct position.)
    I'd be happy doing other work to it, I just don't have the knowledge to pull the engine apart. (Or the correct lifting equipment.)
     
  8. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    When we do a serious rebuild of a bike, we put it up on a little table, using a carefully engineered wooden plank to wheel it on.
    When you take the engine apart, it is good if you have instructions if you are not totally familiar with the engine. (It takes my dad less then 5 minutes to change valve springs on the kart)
    You should try dirt biking some day. It will improve your street riding skills after you've felt what it's like when the bike is sliding, it is also a ton of fun.
    You could also try some balancing exercises, try to go as slow as you can without putting your foot down, this will also improve throttle, brake, and clutch control. Don't try to balance with your body weight, use the steering.
    If the bike starts to fall to the right, then turn to the right. After a while, you will be able to stop for a couple of seconds, just sitting there on the bike.
    Sorry if this is all a bit overwhelming for me to say at once.
    Edit: I couldn't type this with a straight face, poofy dash being there and all.
     
  9. Brando-K

    Brando-K Premium

    Messages:
    2,406
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks for the advice. :tup:
    I'd like to try dirt bikes one day... Maybe when I find somewhere with heaps of room to ride.

    And yes poofy Dash has that effect. :D
     
  10. Dragonistic

    Dragonistic

    Messages:
    5,677
    My bike does exactly the same thing, usually if I stop then put it in neutral (often when I'm at home to open the gate) then pull off again in 1st it won't go in to neutral when I stop again to park unless I do it before I reach a standstill but I can just turn it off by this point and it'll go in fine or move it just as with yours. I've had no clutch or gearbox problems other than the clutch cable has snapped since I've owned the bike though, which was a fun ride home :tup:.
     
  11. Brando-K

    Brando-K Premium

    Messages:
    2,406
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks Dragonistic, it's good to get multiple opinions. :tup:

    I can imagine having a ride without the clutch. :scared: So you had to keep it in 3rd or 4th the whole way home?
    Shifting up would be okay but you can't get it to gear down if I'm correct. (I quick shift up sometimes but I haven't tried down because I'm sure it doesn't work.)
     
  12. Dragonistic

    Dragonistic

    Messages:
    5,677
    It's not as bad as you think, the real problem is you can't stop without stalling :lol:. You can gear down, you're obviously not supposed to normally but extraordinary circumstances call for it, the main problem was 1st-2nd and back again because you have to go through neutral (1 down 5 up gearbox). Traffic lights and turning across traffic were the real danger, you have to try to crawl your way until you can go so you don't have to stop as finding neutral with no clutch was difficult but I only had to stall out once in my ~45 mile journey (damn red light!).

    Getting going again is real fun in the UK thanks to roundabouts, traffic behind you on a roundabout the light goes green and you're pushing your bike as fast as you can out then jumping on slamming it in to gear and mashing the throttle to get some momentum :lol:. I just changed my route to backroads so there was nothing to stop me again and cruised in 4th/5th the whole way home practically.
     
  13. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    ^ It would only be a couple bucks to get that cable replaced.
    Shameless plug. My Youtube account is "enfieldno5mk1", there are a couple videos of karting, trials, and dirtbiking. I would recommend "Sherco trials wheelie" and "Crf230 single track"
    http://www.youtube.com/user/enfieldno5mk1
     
  14. Dragonistic

    Dragonistic

    Messages:
    5,677
    It was a while ago, my stepdad refitted a cable for me whilst I was away :tup:. He does most of the less serious jobs for me without my asking which is really really nice and I couldn't thank him enough for it as I don't have the knowledge though I can follow instructions fine I don't know what I could be doing wrong and such.
     
  15. Bopop4

    Bopop4

    Messages:
    8,100
    Location:
    Canada
    Lol ok, I was wondering how you would be able to ride in the city with no clutch.
    Just rev it it neutral and shift into first, it won't hurt the transmission. :sly:
     
  16. wfooshee

    wfooshee Premium

    Messages:
    4,581
    A sequential transmission MUST BE TURNING to shift. Simple as that. You can damage the gearbox (by bending shift forks) if you force the issue while stopped.
     
  17. PAPPACLART

    PAPPACLART

    Messages:
    1,945
    Location:
    Italy
    Its very normal, most bikes I have ridden do this. (more than 30 bikes)