Possible to draw a Perfect Circle???......

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03R1
It seems like you are stuck with the pencil and paper media. What if it was a laser cut piece of steel? Could that accomplish a perfect circle?
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No, at the molecular level you do not have a perfectly curved edge.
 
Danoff
The problem is that no line can be drawn perfectly.
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Well why didn't you say so in the first place!? :lol:

03R1, you'd even have to examine the circle at the atomic level. Atoms are real and take up space, obviously. A line--by defintion--take up no space whatsoever. A line is nothing. A line is the distance between two points, which are also nothing, but understood to be there. This infinitely thin line can wrap into a perfectly circular shape and can create a perfect circle. But that circle is nothing. It's theoretical. One atom means it would not be a perfect circle anymore. The Perfect Circle is a mathematical equation, and nothing more.
 
03R1
What if it was a laser cut piece of steel? Could that accomplish a perfect circle?
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No, because no machine could attain that level of accuracy. On top of that, the mechanical linkages et al. would have to be PERFECTLY aligned.
 
Danoff
No, at the molecular level you do not have a perfectly curved edge.
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Ok...now were talking measuring things with electron microscopes. I don't want to get that in depth. You win!

When Thinking in terms of atoms...this thread becomes the most pointless thing we could even talk about. In those terms nothing is aligned perfectly. I thought this was about how humans could draw circles...MY BAD.
 
Even the meaning of the word "perfect" is utterly unattainable. Perfect is an idea.
 
Keef
Well why didn't you say so in the first place!? :lol:

03R1, you'd even have to examine the circle at the atomic level. Atoms are real and take up space, obviously. A line--by defintion--take up no space whatsoever. A line is nothing. A line is the distance between two points, which are also nothing, but understood to be there. This infinitely thin line can wrap into a perfectly circular shape and can create a perfect circle. But that circle is nothing. It's theoretical. One atom means it would not be a perfect circle anymore. The Perfect Circle is a mathematical equation, and nothing more.
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This was my first thought, after which I decided that you could draw a circle with light, so that the problem was no longer atomic. But even light has variation as it travels as a wave. I supppose that if you could get the wave phase exactly idential at all points on the circle and you could find a way to make a perfectly circular image....

Nope. The surface that the image is displayed upon would still be made up of atoms which would introduce variability. I don't see how it can be done.

The problems invovled in drawing a perfect circle with light get into a whole realm of physics that I've been exposed to, but that I'm a bit shaky with. I'm a bit out of my element at this point.

I also considered attempting to use magnets to attract a globule of metal in space into a perfectly formed sphere, but the atoms still give you an uneven surface.
 
Keef
Even the meaning of the word "perfect" is utterly unattainable. Perfect is an idea.
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Exactly. What do we define "perfect" as? How do we know something is "perfect", without a truly "perfect" object to compare it against?
 
Sharky.
Exactly. What do we define "perfect" as? How do we know something is "perfect", without a truly "perfect" object to compare it against?
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You compare it against the theoretical concept.
 
The concept of a flawless circle outside of mathematics is based on extrapolation of degrees of flawed circles. This is a very metaphysical topic.

You can concieve of concepts that you've never seen in real life or experienced because you recognize patterns. The extrapolation of those patterns leads you to the understanding of a concept that doesn't exist in reality.
 
Keef
Even the meaning of the word "perfect" is utterly unattainable. Perfect is an idea.
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For you, yeah...



Because that would be incest. [/momma joke]
 
Sharky.
Exactly. What do we define "perfect" as? How do we know something is "perfect", without a truly "perfect" object to compare it against?
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Perfect means something like "no flaws," along with something like "completely reproducable," as in the result will always be exactly the same. The only thing we know is perfect is a mathematical equation, or the theoretical concept, which is shown by an equation. There is no variation in mathematics if the same steps are followed in any given circumstance. Of course, an equation doesn't prove the theory, it's just an expression. To prove it's true you'll have to do what Danoff said.
 
Has anyone noticed the last 18 posts have all been by Premium members?

Sorry, I just thought that's kind of interesting.
 
Did someone say circles

 
Definitely.

And yes, I did notice we're all premium. Stay normal, 3WD--you're more exclusive that way.
 
Please stab me. :)
 
Danoff
This was my first thought, after which I decided that you could draw a circle with light, so that the problem was no longer atomic.
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However, that doesn't work either, because light is particles, behaving in a wave manner, so even without the waveform fluctuations, you still get an imperfect circle. We spent about 3 months of my SACE Stage2 Physics class discussing this when we were learning about light and such.
 
Danoff
The concept of a flawless circle outside of mathematics is based on extrapolation of degrees of flawed circles. This is a very metaphysical topic.
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Didn't I hear that in a movie once...."Don't make me go metaphyical on your 🤬"
 
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