Power vs Weight tuning

  • Thread starter wolfdude
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wolfdude

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GTP_wolfdude
G'day all!

I'm still learning how to tune properly so please don't flame me ;)

When tuning to meet a particular PP limit, would one lower/increase the weight to achieve this or lower/increase the power? I guess what I'm interested to know is which one should be given priority? Of course it'll be best to have power increased & weight reduced to the max at the same time to achieve a particular PP but what about situations when we can't. e.g. tuning the GTR R-35 on N3 to 550pp where we either have to increase power & increase weight OR decrease power & decrease weight BUT not both.

At the moment, what I do is increase/decrease the weight by 5% & adjust the power to meet the required PP then give it a few runs and repeat until I find a combination that works best. This is assuming everything else remains the same (i.e. gear ratio, springs, etc...) but this is time consuming and not accurate.

Appreciate your help here 👍

Thanks.
:cheers:
 
Theoretically the PP system takes it all into account so that if you have the same PP with max power or with min weight you'll be exactly as fast. Yeah right...

For Suzuka I always go min weight. For Daytona oval always max power. For the other tracks I'll mess with power and weight to see which combination works best. HSR seems to like alot of power.

Of course it gets more complicated when you throw in aero adjustments. Do you give up power for downforce but more drag? Do you give up downforce for lower weight and less drag? Again, Suzuka likes downforce. Daytona oval hates drag. Other tracks not so cut-and-dried.

Try setting power for the broadest flatest power curve and then adjusting weight for that. That is usually a good starting point.
 
I find the biggest component, if it is for live online racing, is what everyone else on the grid is going for. It isn't smart to go full power while everyone else is min weight, because then while you will be faster on the straights, the others ill eat you up on the corners. And vice versa, you may be quick in the turns, but it won't matter because everyone will pass you on the straights.

Same goes for the combination of power, weight, aero, and tires. So first, find a feel you are comfortable with, and second, makes sure it is competitive and applicable in live racing, not just freelap. If you try to freelap with min weight in order to improve your handling, drivers with heavier cars may slow you up in the corners, and you will have less power than them once you get to a straight, so you've wasted your improved handling.
 
s2k2k3
Theoretically the PP system takes it all into account so that if you have the same PP with max power or with min weight you'll be exactly as fast. Yeah right...
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True, the PP system is based on car only, not on track.

s2k2k3
For Suzuka I always go min weight. For Daytona oval always max power. For the other tracks I'll mess with power and weight to see which combination works best. HSR seems to like alot of power.
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Partly true; the track is only one part of the equation. The car is the other. If you have a car that is excellent in the corners but sucks on the straights, you may want to sacrifice some of the handling in trade for power, because it will still corner better than most other cars, but you will gain straight line speed. Even on a track like Suzuka. Daytona Road is also a very good example of a track where weight/power settings can be radically different for each car. I would be very careful about making a statement like 'always tune for power' or ' on track x, always tune for weight'. Though it usually is a good starting point to go for minimum weight at Suzuka. But where you'll end up is not that obvious. :)
 
NLxAROSA
I would be very careful about making a statement like 'always tune for power' or ' on track x, always tune for weight'.
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I believe you left out one word from my statement. "I". "I always tune" is not the same as "Always tune". There are no absolutes when tuning power, weight, and aero. Which is why I didn't say "You should always...". I merely stated what I do. Debating tuning philosophies is like debating religion.
 
While I'm no tuner,it seems to work out best to lower weight for me.Mayby its the cars I tend to drive or driving style.Always go with DC tunes any how.:sly:
 
s2k2k3
I believe you left out one word from my statement. "I". "I always tune" is not the same as "Always tune". There are no absolutes when tuning power, weight, and aero. Which is why I didn't say "You should always...". I merely stated what I do. Debating tuning philosophies is like debating religion.
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Notice the 'I would' in my sentence as well. ;) I was merely pointing out there is more to take into account than just the car. I think it's obvious that any post here is a personal opinion of the one posting it. :) But debating will occur, that's the whole point of having a forum. ;)
 
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Ok... Thanks to everyone who've replied. So I guess the answer to my question is the universal answer... "it depends" ;)

From what I am hearing, one should take into account the following :-

- Track. Tracks with more potential for high speed (e.g. Oval), we should tend to favor power over weight. Tracks with lots of twist & turns (e.g. Suzuka), we should favor weight. And those in between... experiment with the settings ;)

- FreeRun or Race. FreeRun is obviously the ideal to max out the car's potential so tune it as such. But in a Race, we have to consider what car others are using.

- Car. We may be able to sacrifice some power/weight depending on the handling of the car.

Of course, it all depends on the driver as well ;) Now I have more questions than when I started :scared: but its all good as I now know what to look out for when tuning. Thanks again! 👍

:cheers:
 
Try reading Scaff's tuning guides. They have a big "read this!" sign next to them, and they really helped me learn how to tune well. If you still don't get it, you can look at tuning shop/garage threads... such as:

AIM Tuning Shop (me)
The Lion's Den (Paulie)
Red Venom Tuning (Dragonistic)
Dutch Customs (NLxAROSA)
BlitzHendrix Tuning (Blitz187 and GTP_hendrix)

i'm pretty sure all of us will be willing to help out an aspiring young tuner...:sly:

Good luck!👍
 
mPWRD
i'm pretty sure all of us will be willing to help out an aspiring young tuner...
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Yep, you can always ask questions or my opinion, no problem. 👍 And Scaff's guides are a very good place to start; the guides are what got me started. :) And remember, there is no real 'right' or 'wrong' when tuning, if it feels good to you it's 'right'.
 
mPWRD
Try reading Scaff's tuning guides. They have a big "read this!" sign next to them, and they really helped me learn how to tune well. If you still don't get it, you can look at tuning shop/garage threads... such as:

AIM Tuning Shop (me)
The Lion's Den (Paulie)
Red Venom Tuning (Dragonistic)
Dutch Customs (NLxAROSA)
BlitzHendrix Tuning (Blitz187 and GTP_hendrix)

i'm pretty sure all of us will be willing to help out an aspiring young tuner...:sly:

Good luck!👍
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Thanks 👍 I do read Scaff's guide & check out the tunes from the garages.

NLxAROSA
Yep, you can always ask questions or my opinion, no problem. 👍 And Scaff's guides are a very good place to start; the guides are what got me started. :) And remember, there is no real 'right' or 'wrong' when tuning, if it feels good to you it's 'right'.
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Thanks again 👍
 
mPWRD
Very true, but remember... if you want to start a tuning garage, you need to create reasonably versatile tunes.
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:sly: Don't worry :sly: I'm not planning to start another garage. I think we already have very good garages now in GTP. I'm just messing around with tuning and get a better understanding of this.

:cheers:
 
dude, you just have to tune your ride to whatever suits you best. if i get stuck on a tune for a particular car on a particular track, i usually put it back to its default settings and then try to feel the car. i've had it plenty of times when i've been putting down killa times, smoke a jibba (or not) try to perfect the handling bit by bit and then forget what i did when my times start to drop. important is....notes notes notes. especially if your memory is like mine.

once you start understanding the physics of springs, dampers and the like you'll feel the car more.

ps... i really really hope gt5 put Bathurst in the full game.
 
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anyway, if you want to check out starting a tuning shop or get feedback... ask any of the guys here man. its all about the race in the end and the faster we get the more fun we'll have and the more we'll shake after each race...YEEAAHHH!!
 
Hey WOLFDUDE

IF YOU GO WEIGHT

I personally would start at dropping the weight first, the lighter the car the more nibble and faster it will turn, stop, accelerate and fly lol You are racing around a track and you will pull away far more around the corners, breaking zones than you will with and over powered car etc

POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT BALANCE/CONTROL/GRIP!

IF YOU GO POWER

Altering power will make your car faster down the straights but thats it! thats whats slipstreaming is for, if you are using big power then you need grip, grip can be made by reducing weight, adding downforce (make car slower down straights), tires or using a good geometry setting.

Now in the races you are using at the moment tires are limited to either N3 or s2, N3's in you case for fuji i think which means little grip, your using the GTR so you cant really alter the downforce, and you cant alter weight if you have gone for power, which leaves you with geometry,

Now if you had altered weight instead you would not need as much grip to get the massive power down plus your cars handling will improve due to less body roll an forces in general,

The lotus elise is a great example of this and if you watch top gear look out for the CATERAM R500 not bad for a 2.0ltr 250bhp old FORD engine bolted to a 50 year old geometry!

Hope this help WOLFFY sure to drift with you soon in the new year :sly:
 
By grunt i pressume you mean torque, for the track i would say torque is less important than power, a smooth power band is what you want to make it easier to apply the power out of bends, Torque makes wheels spin and losses grip in my opinion make conditions so you would have to be hesisitant on the throttle
 
Torque and power are two sides of the same coin: power = torque x rpm. When people say "a lot of torque" or "a lot of grunt" what they usually mean is "a flat torque curve". It's torque at the wheels which makes the car go and you can multiply (or divide) the torque at the wheels with a gearbox, so for a given power output how much torque you have isn't very relevant. For a given power output, diesels have a lot of torque because they are low revving and bike engines have very little torque because they are high revving. With appropriate gearing, any engine with a given power output can produce the same torque at the wheels.

A flat torque curve isn't generally very important in a race car because unlike a road car you're usually happy to change gear a lot and keep the revs in the power band. Torque at low revs is important for a road car, but mostly irrelevant for a race car. The only time the shape of the torque curve matters much for a race car would be if you have few gears (3 or 4) and need a high top speed and good acceleration. Then you would need the torque curve to be fairly flat as with widely spaced gears you'd be using a lot of the rev range. For most cars in GT5p we have 5 to 8 gears so you can make the most of the engine, even if the power band is quite narrow. In short, power is what really matters.
 

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