PP system is bugged and it totally ruins the online racing experience :(

  • Thread starter SergioRZ
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So I'm a little tired of the PP bug ruining the online experience of this game... it happens all the time, I join a room of a certain PP limit, take many cars with good enough tuning (certainly not the best) and my good enough driving skills (certainly not the best), only to find that many or almost all the cars in the room are running much faster than mine. I mean... they go by me in the straights like they have 50pp more, at least!

Its really frustrating, you take time out of your busy day to go there and have some fun on a level playing field, but in fact the playing field is not level at all, it's totally unfair.

I blame it mainly on the PP system bugs, it isn't right, and it ruins the game. Sure, my driving is not very good, but I'm talking straight line performance here.


Interestingly the higher the PP the less it happens... for example at 600pp or 650pp I find that I'm being much slower than the other competing cars (slower in a straight line), but at 700pp or even better at 750pp this effect almost disappears completely (and then I can find myself being slower sometimes but not on the straight lines, it's just my bad driving!).

This goes to show that I'm correctly assuming this is a PP bug issue, because the higher the PP level the lower the margin to actually exploit the bug... there's only so much performance a car can achieve, regardless of how many PP that translates to. So, it's probably easy to get a 600pp rated car to run at real 650pp, but probably not so easy or even impossible to get a 750pp rated car to run at real 800pp, if that car native performance is never going to be more than, say... 760pp, so there is really almost no margin to exploit the bug without going to lower PP rooms.


I also notice this more when I go in the usual rooms, there are some 15 or 20 players that are always in the same 2 or 3 online rooms everyday, almost always 650pp, sometimes 700pp tops. Most of these drivers have very similar performance and they run lap after lap all very close to each other, basically same performance. And they all seem to know each other (maybe in real life) so it makes sense that they are all sharing the same PP exploits and techniques. They certainly drive VERY well, better than me for sure. But again, I'm talking about straight line performance, not really much driving going on!

If I create my own rooms, it's much more balanced, there's always that couple of guys with more performance, but also many others with regular performance similar to mine.

So, there's something going on... it's weird, it's frustrating and really wastes a lot of my time with nonsense racing.

I wish Polyphony would fix it, to make it a fair game and level the track for everyone.
 
Are you sure they're just not running a better tune for the circuit? Eg, if it's a power circuit with slow corners and long straights, having a heavier, more powerful car is probably better than running a lighter, less powerful car which might have the same PP. Conversely, twistier circuits where you need to carry more momentum through the corners would suit cars with less weight and their lower power to meet the PP requirement wouldn't be as much of a disadvantage.
 
In any case i can totally understand that they are probably running better tunes and they are definitely better drivers… but still the performance gap on pure acceleration on the straights is too much to be normal…
 
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The short gear bug is still there that gives more bhp when set to max the gears out at 150mph (even though the top soeed usually goes over 150mph). Also maybe the host has forgot to disallow NOS.
 
Welcome to online gaming i am afraid :( I bet 1/2 the people just follow some tuber who post vids of the must use car of the week etc or the secret tuning option YOU must do argghaaaa ;) .Crew2 was mental for it silly things like which rock to smash into so your car reset miles up the road i called it sad and was told to stfu its part of the game deal with it hehe
 
In any case i can totally understand that they are probably running better tunes and they are definitely better drivers… but still the performance gap on pure acceleration on the straights is too much to be normal…
Truth told, quite a lot of the advantage at the Nordschleife comes from circuit knowledge and being able to carry more speed into the straights, particularly the really fast, flowing section after Karussel. If you spend time doing all of the CE and Nordschleife challenges, you'll be surprised how much extra pace you can find just by picking smoother lines and carrying more speed.
 
Here's a good enough example, this happened today, 650pp room, I know this Z is running Racing Soft tires and the driver described the car in chat as being "maxed out"... it sure is! In straight line, pure acceleration, it overtakes my car (same 650pp, probably more HP - at least it should be - and running on Race Medium tires), and does it so easy that it's really hard to believe... there's no way that would happen in real life with "non-digitally-bugged" cars hehehehehe sorry, no can do!

I was there previously with my own Z, fully tuned, tried it with Racing Hard/Medium/Soft, at different power levels... whatvere I did, that blue Z would go over me like I was stopped, literally! Anywhere... straighs, turns, up, down... whatever, it was like I wasn't even there! :lol:

With the 180SX it was much closer, but still... he went by me as if he had much more power.

You can see, after the turn that was cleared cleanly, I was in full traction, and full throttle... the blue Z is behind me, on the straight he "snaps" to the side and overtakes me very very fast. He's not carrying any extra momentum or driving a different trajectory... nothing at all except pure acceleration!

Here's the videos (different perspectives for each video of the same overtake):













With my own "maxed out" Z it's much worse than that!

How is this possible? Where does that power come from? The room was nitrous not allowed!
 
I watched those videos. I don't see anything unnatural. I think he really has good tune better out of corner acceleration etc. PP system isn't ideal by no means it just gives you "suggestion" how car will perform but it isn't defining that it 100% will perform better. In some cases cars with lower PP will be better even.

On the other hand this is also what happens on real tuners events and even older race series that some cars where totally OP even by rulebooks standards. There are too many variables to balance everything, some setups will outperform others.

If you really want balanced races you should try race cars with BOP. Or races with the same car.
 
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I guess Im going to share this thread again for this. Op is completely right. PP system is completely broken. You can tune gearbox of Veneno, Vulcan, Veyron and La Ferrari to a certain settings and their PP magically drops to 200-300pp. Not some long ago I have used Veneno in a 550pp sport tires lobby and I literally destroyed the field with no effort at all.
 

I guess Im going to share this thread again for this. Op is completely right. PP system is completely broken. You can tune gearbox of Veneno, Vulcan, Veyron and La Ferrari to a certain settings and their PP magically drops to 200-300pp. Not some long ago I have used Veneno in a 550pp sport tires lobby and I literally destroyed the field with no effort at all.
This is what i though the problem is before I read whole thread. The whole "Tomahawk grind on tokyo" shows how broken PP system is. Creating 2000 bhp car with 600 pp level is no problem at all and you can enter that kind of lobby with this car absolutlely bonkers.

But those situations on videos i think are not bug just better setup.
 
This is what i though the problem is before I read whole thread. The whole "Tomahawk grind on tokyo" shows how broken PP system is. Creating 2000 bhp car with 600 pp level is no problem at all and you can enter that kind of lobby with this car absolutlely bonkers.

But those situations on videos i think are not bug just better setup.

There are other exploits in PP system. I have a tune for Ford Gt40 66 that is around 400pp yet performs like an 600pp car.
 
The video looks like normal behaviour, not all cars are going to be perfectly balanced with each other.

I usually race 600 SS tyres only (don't like using slicks on road cars personally), and sometimes 500 SH tyres with my EK or S2000.

The PP system is never going to be anybody's idea of "perfect". You'll get cars that are always ahead of the grid at certain PP brackets, it was this way in previous GT's, but in GT7 it actually seems more balanced IMO, with greater variations of vehicles on grids which is nice to see.

I've seen much worse cases of gapperoni, where people have properly glitched their transmissions so they have 150-200hp more than everybody else on the field. It is what it is, until it gets "fixed" we have to deal with it.

Edit: One way to get around it is host your own lobbies, and kick the cheaters. You'll have to be sure they're cheating first though.
 
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The are some major flaws with the calculation of PP obviously, as are widely known, don't need to go there. PD tried to fix it on the last patch, but still people found out how to go around that to continue to use the Tomahawk to grind.

Other than those major flaws, as the PP score is calculated by a series of dynamic performance estimates, some small variations of some settings result on "sweet spots" that give you some pp reductions without hurting performance (like, some days ago, setting the Skyline R34 GT500 to 700pp, with my settings, setting the gearbox to 310km/h would result in about 8pp less than setting it for 300 km/h or 320 km/h, whose PP score would have online fractions of a point of variation between 300-320).
The same thing with aero, less aero gives more speed but less cornering ability, so on certain ranges it gives you more PP, others less... and this doesn't consider track specificity.
Ride height is also a way to mess with PP, specially with RWD cars, you can set ride height higher to less PP (and that isn't catastrophic on bumpy, step high kerbs) and even front higher than the rear, it would give you some understeer but the rear planted on braking and throttle corner exit (kind of holeshot device in Motogp), lowering the PP in the process.
It could be a little of this, a little of shorter gear ratios could give advantage on fast sections, just penalizing at Dottinger latter half.
 
You can lose or win a lot of speed at the corner before that straight going up, I don't see anything wrong.

For the corner, you brake between the blue marker on the road and the black sign on the right of the track, stay left while steering towards a spot (graffiti) at the left side on the road, then start steering in. You will want to shift down, but it's usually in 3th or 4th. In low RPM you have more grip and you can be sooner at full throttle.
 
May be geared lower for better acceleration. How did it do at the top end on the long straight?
I watched the replay again to check on that, I'm actually running shorter gears... the Z is getting about this speed on each gear 1-85 / 2-120 / 3-175 / 4-225 / 5-290. Mine are all a bit shorter by 5 to 10 km/h, and my fifth is maxing out much lower at maybe 265 km/h.

So shorter gearing is not the cause.
 
As can be seen in the video, there is nothing there about braking later or carrying more momentum or anything like that, the blue Z is behind me glued to my tail, same gear as me (3), by the sound I can hear we're stepping on it pretty much at the same time... but then there he goes!

I've experienced this before myself, when driving my "bugged cars" on 500pp rooms... I had a couple of cars rated at 480pp that were running like 600pp or more! With those cars I would go by other players exactly like this. It was boring!

This blue Z was doing the same thing to almost every other car in the room, of course the driver is VERY GOOD and watching him race I can see he would always be much faster than me, that's for sure... but not like this with practically no "driving" involved, this is just power.
 
I watched those videos. I don't see anything unnatural. I think he really has good tune better out of corner acceleration etc. PP system isn't ideal by no means it just gives you "suggestion" how car will perform but it isn't defining that it 100% will perform better. In some cases cars with lower PP will be better even.

But if a better tune is giving such massive acceleration improvement without sacrificing much (or maybe nothing at all) in other areas, then this should be reflected in PP. This is no small difference in performance, it's huge...
 
As another, minor point.

If you're tuning down to a PP, the characteristics of a car change. Tuning the BMW VGT down to 700PP end's up with a car that's noticeable faster if short shifted, instead of being revved out. It's literally the difference between being able to walk away from someone on a straight, and not. I'm sure it'll be the same for many cars, though mostly I'm not tuning that much.
 
But if a better tune is giving such massive acceleration improvement without sacrificing much (or maybe nothing at all) in other areas, then this should be reflected in PP. This is no small difference in performance, it's huge...
Maybe on Le-Mans circuit without chicanes your car would be better? This requires more testing. And... PP system isn't ideal.
 
Ok, today after much fiddling (actually trying to improve the car, not to find a bug!)... I found the Z glitch/bug.... turned a 700pp setup into 525pp in a single click. I'm 100% sure that user was running this glitch setup (that would be REAL 50pp more than my 180sx in that race, makes sense for the way he accelerated past me!). Case solved... this user by the way is the same with similar setups/results in many 650pp rooms, same thing with a Supra (I mentioned in another thread), and other cars, so I guess he and the usual people he plays with just make the extra effort to find these glitches on many cars they use to race online, and seem to enjoy that... oh well.
 
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Lo and behold... with the latest GT7 update 1.15 that finally seems to have fixed the PP system (or at least make it more balanced), I'm no longer finishing last on most races... actually winning many, and running at top 3 most of the time. No more cars going away on the straights like they had 50 or 100 more PP (and they did have the extra "hidden" PP!)... it's a brand new world where it actually feels great to go online and race, have fun in a FAIR levelled playing field. I don't care about winning races, but I care about it being fair and not full of tricks ;)

THANK YOU POLYPHONY!
 
Lo and behold... with the latest GT7 update 1.15 that finally seems to have fixed the PP system (or at least make it more balanced), I'm no longer finishing last on most races... actually winning many, and running at top 3 most of the time. No more cars going away on the straights like they had 50 or 100 more PP (and they did have the extra "hidden" PP!)... it's a brand new world where it actually feels great to go online and race, have fun in a FAIR levelled playing field. I don't care about winning races, but I care about it being fair and not full of tricks ;)

THANK YOU POLYPHONY!
I was doing a PP420 CM lobby on the Nordschleife and got tired of getting my butt kicked in an AE86 duel. Dude was hitting higher speed in the climb on the back straight than I was in the final.
I had a 132hp tune.
I fiddled around for a little bit, I now can run a 235hp tune with the same 420 PP...
needless to say that it was 20seconds faster on my first attempt.
PP racing is not possible in GT7 yet.
 
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