Premium fuel differences

[Boz Mon]

I am a bit confused at the current situation. I have been using Shell V-power premium gas in my current Prelude, the previous Prelude, and my old Lexus SC300 all because the first time I used it in my 1st Prelude, I noticed a jump in my mileage. The other day, I was low on gas and for the first time in like 4 years, there was no shell station in the immediate area, so I bought from BP. The gas I got from there seemed to eliminate a dead spot in the lower RPM's and give me more throttle response.

Whats the deal with the 2 different gasses? I know that they add different things before they go into the ground, but I didnt think that there was really THAT much difference. Is it really nothing?

 

[McLaren]

Wait, so are you wondering if there's a big difference between Premium & Regular, or if there's a difference between Shell & BP?

The former, not a lot. Some cars requiring Premium just run better because of the higher octane. The latter, it's a bit tricky. Most gas companies have their own little "recipe" for the gas they sell.

 

[Joey D]

Could be different octanes, I know around here most BP's offer 94 octane while Shell offers 93, some of the crappier stations only offer 92 or 91. Different station brands also add different things to their fuels during the refining processes.

I've tested the difference between BP, Shell, and various other stations in both the Cooper and the Blazer. I found Costco brand fuel was the best in the Blazer (also the cheapest) while Shell works the best in the Cooper. I really think it's all how your vehicle responds to it, although it shouldn't be a huge difference.

** And there is a BIG difference between running a car on regular that requires premium. You will degrade your engine quicker over the life of the car by not running the proper fuel through it. I know BMW will get touchy with your warranty if you run the wrong fuel through the car much to the surprise of fellow members on the North American Motoring board who were to cheap to spend an extra $2.40 a fill up with their Coopers.

 

[CDailey]

I've had a similar situation happen to me. I've put premium gas from Hess in my car since the first time I filled up. A few weeks ago, the Hess pump wouldn't read my ATM card so I just drove down the street to the BP station. I filled up with their premium and my mileage went way down hill. I know I was driving a little more aggressive on that tank, but not so much of a difference to cause the major drop in mileage I experienced.

 

[Boz Mon]

I am talking about the differences between the premium fuels from place to place.

 

[McLaren]

I am talking about the differences between the premium fuels from place to place.

Well, then it'll depend. Again, some gas companies like to add their own chemicals to the gas they sell. Shell, from what I read in the past, likes to add something they believe improves performance even more & is why Ferrari supports them. It really depends though. I'm positive there's a few studies that show what gas company adds what to their fuel, and the effects, but if you want a clear understanding, my advice would probably to try 2-4 and see what station gives your car what you think it needs.

Again, they all have their only little thing.

** And there is a BIG difference between running a car on regular that requires premium. You will degrade your engine quicker over the life of the car by not running the proper fuel through it. I know BMW will get touchy with your warranty if you run the wrong fuel through the car much to the surprise of fellow members on the North American Motoring board who were to cheap to spend an extra $2.40 a fill up with their Coopers.

I don't know what the Mini owners are doing, but BMW owners will tell you it's fine to run regular. If you're trying to get the most performance out of it, then yes, premium is much better. However, regular will work fine for those who don't really care. The knock sensor in current BMWs will adapt the engine to whatever fuel you choose to run, and will make it run efficently.

 

[Boz Mon]

I filled up again tonight with BP premium, I am going to see what kind of mileage I get from it

 

[Jay]

I run the highest octane fuel I can get from the pump purely for power reasons, I have tuned my engine (fully reprogramable ECU) on 98RON and I rather not take out timing with the lower octane fuels.

All normal cars I drive I run regular.

 

[buickgnx88]

Well Shell has their "V-Power" and BP has their "Invigorate" which is supposed to clean the carbon buildup and keep it from coming back, and I guess giving slightly better mileage and response.

 

[niky]

It'll depend on how your car is tuned, and exactly how the additives affect it. It's a common argument around here, whether this "95 RON" is better than that "96" or the other one, which is "97"... the answer is, you won't know till you've tried it.

On the dyno, we've actually seen a 5 hp bump (with AF-tuning) going from one gas rated at 96-97 down to a gas rated at 95. The only obvious conclusion is that the gas at 95 actually has a higher effective octane (RON =/= AKI) than the 96 gas, which allows more advanced timing.

 

[Boz Mon]

I know in both of my prelude manuals, and the Lexus manual all say that if you run regular, the engine will compensate.

 

[Jay]

I know in both of my prelude manuals, and the Lexus manual all say that if you run regular, the engine will compensate.

Yep, by taking out timing (determined by knock sensors) thus reducing power and efficiency.

Which is why when many put their stock ECUed cars on the dyno for a power run they reset the ECU first.

 

[Casio]

I run the highest octane fuel I can get from the pump purely for power reasons, I have tuned my engine (fully reprogramable ECU) on 98RON and I rather not take out timing with the lower octane fuels.

All normal cars I drive I run regular.

Don't have that V-Power Racing 100 Octane over there?

 

[eiriksmil]

Filling up with V-power is literally money burnt. We've got 95 and 98 here, I filled up with 98 on sunday for the first time ever, because of the joy that the fuel price was low. Reduces knocking, but on a stock engine you don't have this problem anyway.

 

[Jay]

Don't have that V-Power Racing 100 Octane over there?

Yeah with a crappy ethanol mix.

 

[Joey D]

I don't know what the Mini owners are doing, but BMW owners will tell you it's fine to run regular. If you're trying to get the most performance out of it, then yes, premium is much better. However, regular will work fine for those who don't really care. The knock sensor in current BMWs will adapt the engine to whatever fuel you choose to run, and will make it run efficently.

I doubt that because they are the same people MINI = BMW. Go to a BMW dealer and the will tell you that you have to run premium fuel through the car. It's not just about performance and mileage, the engine was designed to run on that grade of fuel and if you don't fun it on it you will cause damage over the long run. I never said you are going to get knocks. I can't think of a reason why anyone would not put the recommended fuel in their vehicle, the price difference is negligible.

 

[Pupik]

Usually, you don't get a lot of damage, if any, by switching to a lower grade of fuel; the worst you may get is oxygen sensors that burn out a little sooner. But it's rare to hear to serious engine damage, except possibly on ultra-high-performance cars; my personal rule of thumb is if you can afford a $30,000+ car, you car afford to fill it up with right fuel with no financial excuses, since the difference between fuel grades has barely changed at all in the past 15-20 years. Even then, I've never heard of a direct cause of catastrophic failure from using the wrong octane repeatedly.

I had customers that told me they felt the engine response difference in our loaner cars; we used 93 octane, since 91 is rarely available anywhere in Florida. Many customers would use the cheap stuff, or use mid-grade fuel. I'd never promise they'd get more fuel economy (that's setting yourself up for a complaint), but they'd notice a performance difference, and maybe more fuel economy as a bonus.

Performance-wise, I feel a little more lag in medium-to-hard acceleration when using the wrong octane. Some engines pronounce it more than others, the Lexus isn't as sensitive to mid-grade (89) rather than premium (91-93, what the manual says). But my Neon felt much less responsive if I put 87 octane instead of 89 (manual-suggested). Fuel economy suffers more in the Lexus than the Neon with a octane downgrade, interestingly. It's probably all down to the engine computer modifying the fuel-air ratio to make up for the loss.

In short, if your car doesn't ask for anything other than 87 octane, there's no point in upgrading. But if you go to a lesser octane, you're biggest problems are usually just acceleration performance and/or fuel economy.

Note: The fuel here has about 10% ethanol, and my fuel economy has recently suffered a bit from it (which was especially grating when fuel was $4.50/gallon). Lately, I've used the BP "Invigorate", and I've noticed about 20-30 more miles on the tank (I almost always wait until the yellow light turns on). Then again, I've slowed down just a smidge from stoplights. Until I see a 50-mile-per-tank difference, I can't say for sure. It could be the engine has "adjusted" to the added ethanol.

 

[1X83Z]

my personal rule of thumb is if you can afford a $30,000+ car, you car afford to fill it up with right fuel with no financial excuses,

What if you can afford a $15k car that used to be $35k? That was a problem we ran into a lot @ Ferrari of Denver - not with premium fuel vs regular but with people skimping on maintenance, particularly for old Rolls and Bentleys, because the asking was affordable but the running costs weren't.

BTW I have never EVER noticed a difference in mileage or capability no matter what grade or brand of fuel I use. Granted it could be because my car is underpowered and overweight, but I still haven't noticed a difference

 

[YSSMAN]

Because I've got a Camry engine in my Celica, I've always ran it on regular fuel. I'll spring for midgrade most of the time, but never premium. The Toyota does fine on 89...

 

[Pupik]

What if you can afford a $15k car that used to be $35k?

...then you eventually make up the difference in repair costs.

You have to pay to play; if anything, the previous owner who leased it did not care what fuel they put in the car. They likely didn't have to cover any repair costs, since everything would be covered by warranty, anyhow.

The one who buys it used is much more likely to pay for its upkeep. Of course, that means some cars' maintenance is well-cared for, and in other cases, the maintenance is somewhat neglected until the 3rd buyer gets it.

 

[Boz Mon]

Well 1 day into my new tank on BP fuel and I already notice a jump in economy. My needle doesnt normally move until 40 miles give or take 2. I am currenly just over 50 miles into my tank, and it just started to move. I know this isnt a huge jump, but it is definitely a noticeable improvement over shells vpower.

The V-power, and invigorate are just additives added right before the gas goes from the truck to the ground, right?

 

[Eric.]

Well 1 day into my new tank on BP fuel and I already notice a jump in economy. My needle doesnt normally move until 40 miles give or take 2. I am currenly just over 50 miles into my tank, and it just started to move. I know this isnt a huge jump, but it is definitely a noticeable improvement over shells vpower.

The V-power, and invigorate are just additives added right before the gas goes from the truck to the ground, right?

I would think that the additives are added before being pumped into the truck, not at the station.

 

[nitrorustler41]

nothing goes in my tank except BP premium.

my local FLP did dyno tests, and BP fuel made the most power everytime, and overall, the highest quality fuel.


If I am in extreme need I will use costco, or shell......but nothin other then that