Pretty Much Every Race Car I Own Having Problems with Sierra's Jumps, and Jumps in General

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LXM3500

LXM3500

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Lxm3500
How do I fix this?
It all started when I was online, and I hopped in my 15th anniv. SLS GT3. We were at Zahara, and right before I went over the jump, I tapped the brakes, like I always do. When I went over the jump, however, the nose almost went completely vertical. What's happening? No matter what I do, I always end up staring into the sky over every jump! Does it have to do with aerodynamics? Because every other race car does it. Or is it something to do with my suspension setup (which, in case you're wondering, is as low as possible but otherwise stock)?
It doesn't happen with any street cars. It's really annoying too, because the corner after the first jump also has a tiny little jump right before the apex and, surprise surprise, the nose lifts way up into the sky and I hit the wall. EVERY TIME. Always a nice little touch when you're online. Especially when someone's in front of you. :banghead:

Any suggestions?
 
Ugh, I was hoping that wasn't the case! :( I love to have as much downforce as I possibly can, but if you think it'll help, I'll try it out. Thanks a lot!
 
Have you tried weight distribution, where this happens is it a jump or a bump in the track ? if it is a bump in the road have you tried the other side of the road, i.e does it go across the track ?
You've probably tried these but thought I'd mention them, anyway downforce sounds like a good place to start.
 
As mentioned above, its a balancing act of downforce and weight distribution. Because these both affect which end of the car is heaviest they will affect how it reacts when airborne.
If the front is lifting higher than the rear then you need to reduce rear/increase front downforce or shift some weight forward to balance the car. You should be aware that because the effects of downforce are directly related to speed (the faster you go the heavier the car gets) the car will not have the same balance hitting a jump at 70mph that it will at 170mph so you might need alterations to suit specific conditions. 👍

The other trick is to brake sharply as you reach the lip in order to transfer weight onto the nose and prevent it taking off
 
@SJC ALPHA I'll be sure to try weight distribution. There are several places around Sierra where there are jumps. The first one where I go completely airborne is a jump that goes across the track, and the one immediately after at the apex of the corner, that one's more of a bump. But the problem is, its highest point is at the actual apex, so I'd have to be on the worst line possible to avoid it. Thanks for the tips, though, I'll definitely try those.

@DolHaus Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Thanks! But as I said in the OP, I always brake sharply before every jump on every track, and that's exactly why. But even after doing so, the car still wants to practically flip over backwards.

Thanks for the help everyone! I'll let you all know how it goes when I get the chance to try it. :D
 
I only used one race car at Sierra yet, it only had a problem with the #36 jump, botched it on both laps. This was an online race.
 
Ok everyone, so far all of my changes are not doing much to help. I have the downforce (front/back) at max/min, and a 50kg ballast on the front. I don't want it to be too much heavier, so I'm doing everything I can to keep the weight as low as I can. But although it still points upward towards the sky over every jump, I've actually noticed that it seems to be (contrary to what reducing downforce is supposed to do) MUCH easier to control and MUCH more predictable, not to mention a bit faster (before the ballast). So at least it drives nicer. I'll try to get back on soon so I can fix it.

P.S: This is totally OT, but while tuning it, I noticed something about all the suspension settings and all the measurements. Maybe it's because I have imperial units, but all of the distance units (i.e., ride height, length, width, etc) say that they're in inches, but the measurements are obviously in millimeters. Either that, or the car is almost 5 feet tall.
 
I was intrigued with this so tried the 15th anniversary SLS GT3 and wow, you're absolutely right.
What I did notice was the nose went skywards a fraction of a second after you take off, which seems to indicate downforce. I'm quite pathetic at tuning but I found putting downforce at 400 front ( max ) and 680 rear and moving the ballast to -50 front (all the way to the left ), I didn't add any ballast.
The worst place on the track is between turns 5 and 6, with these changes and dabbing the brakes definately helped, for me anyway. I hope this helps.
 
Thanks, I'll let you know once I'm able to get back on. I have homework to catch up on, so I don't know when I'll be able to.

I forgot to mention that I went into arcade mode and tried the Audi Quattro Pikes Peak on Eiger. On the first jump, I literally sailed through the air INTO the pit lane. It seems to have the same problem as the AMG, only much more rampant. I am going to try it on Sierra as soon as I can, just to see what happens.
 
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LXM3500
I've actually noticed that it seems to be (contrary to what reducing downforce is supposed to do) MUCH easier to control and MUCH more predictable, not to mention a bit faster (before the ballast). So at least it drives nicer.
Click to expand...

This could be because you are lowering the suspension without stiffening it. Lowering the down force at least partially compensates for this at speed as its not pushing the car down so hard.

Also don't know if it will be noticeable but the stiffer settings you are running means less weight transfer when you brake as the car will not pitch so much.
 
If we think about how downforce works it makes it easier to understand how it will affect the tuning of the car. In basic terms downforce means that the car becomes heavier as it goes faster, the air passing over the wings and canards is pushing down on the car meaning that it pushes it into the ground in the same way that an aeroplanes wing pushes a plane into the air.
Becoming heavier means that the tyre has a larger contact patch and therefore more grip, as a downside this means that the car needs more energy to accelerate and decelerate and the added aerodynamic resistance also means that the car cuts through the air less cleanly.

Because the car is now heavier this means that the spring rates are comparatively softer. If we imagine that we have a 1000kg car that feels balanced (not too soft/stiff) on 8kgfm springs, if we were to add 50% extra weight to the car and bring it up to 1500kg the 8kgfm springs would start to feel softer which will slow down weight transfer and increase body roll leading to understeer.

Finding the correct setup changes depending on the speed of the track, if it has a lot of fast sections then you will need to run stiffer spring rates to stop your car becoming sluggish and unresponsive when downforce is in effect. The downside of this is that the stiffer the car the less easy it will be to control in slow corners and the less suited it will be to fast direction changes.
It all comes down to balance and reducing the negative side effects when tuning. There is no such thing as a perfect setup, the best one is always the one with the least flaws and the best compromise.


Back to the original subject of jumping, you'll never get it perfect but you might just be able to make it slightly less bad, racing cars aren't supposed to fly. :lol:

 
Silly idea...try to stay on the ground. ;) If you like your setup and fear deviation will make things difficult, you can ease off the throttle gradually over consecutive laps so that you can find a good balance of speed and reduced lift/tilt. I've also found it isn't always enough to tap the brakes if you're still on the throttle, and you might need to get off the power entirely to shift weight forward a little harder. Slower over and enough grip for the following corner is faster than faster over and using the wall to make your turn. :lol:
 
DolHaus
If we think about how downforce works it makes it easier to understand how it will affect the tuning of the car. In basic terms downforce means that the car becomes heavier as it goes faster, the air passing over the wings and canards is pushing down on the car meaning that it pushes it into the ground in the same way that an aeroplanes wing pushes a plane into the air.
Becoming heavier means that the tyre has a larger contact patch and therefore more grip, as a downside this means that the car needs more energy to accelerate and decelerate and the added aerodynamic resistance also means that the car cuts through the air less cleanly.

Because the car is now heavier this means that the spring rates are comparatively softer. If we imagine that we have a 1000kg car that feels balanced (not too soft/stiff) on 8kgfm springs, if we were to add 50% extra weight to the car and bring it up to 1500kg the 8kgfm springs would start to feel softer which will slow down weight transfer and increase body roll leading to understeer.

Finding the correct setup changes depending on the speed of the track, if it has a lot of fast sections then you will need to run stiffer spring rates to stop your car becoming sluggish and unresponsive when downforce is in effect. The downside of this is that the stiffer the car the less easy it will be to control in slow corners and the less suited it will be to fast direction changes.
It all comes down to balance and reducing the negative side effects when tuning. There is no such thing as a perfect setup, the best one is always the one with the least flaws and the best compromise.


Back to the original subject of jumping, you'll never get it perfect but you might just be able to make it slightly less bad, racing cars aren't supposed to fly. :lol:

Click to expand...

That video hits the nail on the head! Maybe I'll have to use something that isn't a Mercedes, seems to be a trend amongst them. :lol: But anyway, the way you explained it makes it a bit easier to understand. Thanks a lot!
 
It's not always about the jump but how the car reacts when you land.
I'd perhaps worry less about D/F and more about ride height springs & dampers.
More height softer settings like rallying.
 
Just tried a few DTMs round this track & did not have to much trouble, sure front lifts a bit more than the back but no issue. Don't know if it makes a difference but I do run a slightly softer suspension setup on them.
Also used a tuner car the HPA Stage II VW thing, quick good handling & great over the jumps but don't short shift engine characteristics are very poor low down,
 

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