Problematic Cars and Public Lobby Settings

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by DefInfinity, May 29, 2020.

?

Which solution do you think would be most effective?

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  1. DefInfinity

    DefInfinity

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    I'm essentially stealing my reddit post and placing it here since I don't trust that it will be read or even responded to
    I originally started with a complaint about the Toyota TS050, a Gr.1 car in GT Sport



    Whenever we create lobbies we usually have to determine what settings are best for what we're trying to do. Some barebones race lobbies might force no assists onto each driver, while a drag lobby might ban only TCS. Even amongst the Free Run lobbies, hosts are actively against VGTs (or more specifically cars like the Tomahawk X and Chapparal 2X), explicitly written in the titles and sometimes unable to enforce them. The issue here isn't unique to just the TS050 nor is it limited to simply the cars. Really, its from a combination of factors that allows certain cars to overpower lobbies.

    (Ok, here it is)

    The Nightmare of Power Ratios

    Power ratios of certain cars are part of that problem, the ambiguity of Max Power Limits(MPL) is another. Now, when I say ambiguous, I'm really talking about the classes of cars the MPL acts on rather than the raw number that we set. 300 HP is always 300 HP, but without determining what cars we actually want in the lobby, it becomes useless.

    What do I mean? Say we set the MPL at 300 HP. This allows N100, N200, and half of N300 to appear on track. This also allows some de-tuned Gr.4s and Gr.Xs to appear as well (potentially problematic if you only want N-Class cars). Note that none of the Gr.3s are not able to be detuned below 440hp and would never appear here. But, devoid of all reason, the TS050 goes far below 440hp. In fact, it can actually go all the way down to 253hp! I'm sure most people won't have an issue racing in extremely underpowered LMP cars, but for the people who wanted to drive anything else, they're going to have to deal with this disgusting beast of a machine if they want any shot at all.

    The only way to get rid of it is to raise the weight beyond its max weight (2315lb / 1050kg)



    So raising the weight limit would fix it, right?


    Not quite. By doing this, we lose a great deal of cars that would perfectly fit in the MPL without overpowering the rest of the lineup. Kei Cars come to mind alongside some Group Xs - which is a problematic class in its own right, but has some merits justifying its existence (EVs and special-purpose cars).

    Alternatively, if you raised the minimum weight above that of the specific car and remove power limits, there will still be cars outside the standard range of the class that car was in. The Sauber Mercedes C9 is a great example of this since it's max weight is 2,321 lbs, a tad bit higher than the standard 2,315 lbs common in Gr.1. Even that value is over the minimum weight of most Gr.4 cars.

    If you lower it again to the minimum weight of the lightest Gr.4, the TS050 is still in the fight!



    How would you fix it then?

    There's probably multiple ways to fix this with some solutions being more precise than others. The ones that I'm thinking of right now are:


    1) Blacklist specific cars from being entered by selecting it from a list during lobby creation

    or
    2) Standardize the ranges of Power and Weight for each class strictly without any overlaps between them

    or

    3) Give users the option to limit entries by max downforce levels, since these are already standardized in most classes

    or

    4) Give users combo-box select options for all the classes they want to allow while also splitting Gr.X and Gr.1 into Formula, VGT, Vintage, etc.



    TL;DR

    Cars like the TS050 are near impossible to keep out of lobbies without sacrificing cars that don't need to be. Having unusually low power limits or high max weights makes it difficult to keep similar cars out using the Max Power and Min. Weight limits and ultimately forces us to rely on an incredibly narrow N-class system.

    I do want to hear some other thoughts and suggestions, especially since GT7 seems to be pretty close.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
    AgentBlackDog and Sander 001 like this.
  2. VBR

    VBR Premium

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    I made the same suggestion in my 'bring back Shuffle' thread (it would be nice to have the option to blacklist certain tracks as well).


    :tup:
     
    AgentBlackDog likes this.
  3. JayRS200

    JayRS200

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    Just kick the ones not playing by the rules. But yes PD didn't do a good job in this area.

    In GT5 and 6 we used to race road cars most if the time. A simple mention of road cars in the lobby title was usually enough. Sometimes we would let the rebel choosing a race car race because it was funny to beat them or on the very rare occasion a challenge.
     
    Pigems likes this.
  4. Pigems

    Pigems Premium

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    Just set certain allowable cars/limits and kick anyone who doesn’t comply, it’s as simple as that. :tup:
     
  5. JayRS200

    JayRS200

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    Some people feel bad about kicking but it's a great tool.

    And it has me thinking about a thread idea...

    "What features will be missing in GT7"

    1. Kicking
    2. ?


    :p
     
    Pigems likes this.
  6. Pigems

    Pigems Premium

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    I get that, I feel bad about doing it too, especially after I realized that anyone kicked can’t return to the lobby until it’s closed and reopened. Found that one out the hard way one night. :lol:
     
    Thorin Cain likes this.
  7. JayRS200

    JayRS200

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    Why feel bad. It's usually a narcissist. Just like the ones that don't restart.
     
    fastone371 and Pigems like this.
  8. DefInfinity

    DefInfinity

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    Except that's exactly what the issue is. There isn't enough precision in the settings to prevent those individual cases. It's not like a host can keep track of all cars on the track at all times, nor is it always appropriate to kick players for things not explicitly in the title or told to them. You can only do so much with 62 characters.

    To get a bit annoying, kicking is usually for problematic players rather than their vehicle choices. I just see it as players trying to use the fastest car available that the game allows.
     
    Pigems likes this.
  9. Pigems

    Pigems Premium

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    I agree, I’ve only ever had to kick one person before. But, I always run my lobbies as friends only so we don’t get random drop ins too, that helps a lot with keeping everyone on the same page. :)
     
    fastone371 and DefInfinity like this.
  10. vvise

    vvise

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    I hope we have the ability to create one-make lobbies in GT7. Seems simple enough.
    Or the ability to pre-pick a list of cars allowed in the lobby.
     
  11. DefInfinity

    DefInfinity

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    Unfortunately I don't have too many friends who play GTS, so that's not really in the cards for me.

    It would be nice to not worry about things like this in pubs, though.
     
    Pigems likes this.
  12. Pigems

    Pigems Premium

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    I don’t either, not IRL anyways. My friends are all guys from GTP and people I’ve raced with in Sport Mode. If I have a good race with someone I’ll usually send them a FR on PSN after the race, or you can join a couple of leagues from GTP, you can never have too many GT friends. :)
     
    JayRS200, fastone371 and PirovacBoy like this.
  13. RacingFan1

    RacingFan1

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    Yep, in Gr1 if you limit by power/weight, the hybrid cars demolish the rest and the old ones are useless.
    There should be a lot more variants to limit the cars, for example specify drivetrain like in GT5/GT6, and even you could filter by years and types (classic, diesel, hybrid, vgt)...
    I really hope Kaz works more on lobbies in the next GT... GT Sport lobbies have a lot less features than GT5/GT6 which has been a major disappointment for people who play in lobbies.
     
    DefInfinity and Pigems like this.
  14. DefInfinity

    DefInfinity

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    Shameless bump, since GT7 was announced and I have a sudden compulsion to post.

    The fact that Gr.1 consists of old Group C's, VGTs and LMP1-Hs makes all this incredibly awkward. Hybrid itself is powerful just due to pure fuel saving you get out of it and the unlisted HP it gives. Without the hybrid system, the LMP1-Hs and VGTs just outright have more downforce and grip. Not really surprising, but hopefully the PP system targets all those issues instead of just the pace.

    It would be really nice to have the tools PD had to make the GT League/Sport Mode events. The code is there, but they're just not giving it to us for some reason or another.
     
  15. RacingFan1

    RacingFan1

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    The old group C cars are really useless because they have weak grip/aero and slow 5-speed gearboxes, and with no power limit they get beat by turbodiesel cars and VGT, and in twisty tracks hybrid cars usually beat them all.
    If you want to race those old cars, ban the rest so its a fair fight.
     
    JayRS200 likes this.