Project Cars (ps4) - Car vs. Car balance (i.e. GT6 PP)
- Thread starter LPlates
- 22 comments
- 1,671 views
- 1,001
- Germany
- bLoWfIsHrUlEz
- bLoWfIsHrUlEz
You can limit participants to a certain car class, which is balanced in itself or go ahead and give everyone the same car.
I find in GT6 and its true in real life that all cars in a category are most certainly not equal.
Just take the teams in F1. McLaren vs. Force India. Hence my perceived need to have a rating system for car balance. Otherwise you inevitably get people just picking the best car in a class and having no variety.
Just take the teams in F1. McLaren vs. Force India. Hence my perceived need to have a rating system for car balance. Otherwise you inevitably get people just picking the best car in a class and having no variety.
BHP and Weight are good methods of helping with car balance but they don't take handling into account.The PP system is/was completely pointless... it was always better to put rules in for bhp and weight, then use cars that were comparible (like in real life...)
I was going to answer the question, but blowfish has already done so
Does PCars offer BHP/Weight restrictions in online racing?
Also, your suggestions work fine for something like the F1 or LeMans category, but what about road cars? There is much more variety and simply trying to find "similar" cars doesn't seem like a great way of ensuring fair racing.
In GT6 we often race Subaru/Evo/Skyline and the PP restriction helps to balance out the field, where BHP and Weight give advantage to one car.
In GT6 we often race Subaru/Evo/Skyline and the PP restriction helps to balance out the field, where BHP and Weight give advantage to one car.
GTAndy36
Premium
- 925
- Wiltshire, UK
- AndySimba
How can BHP and weight restrictions give advantage to one car if both cars are sticking to those limits?
I've run many an event on Gran Turismo, and we came to the conclusion a long time ago that if you want completely 'fair' racing... one-make events are the way to do that. Otherwise you are constantly chasing your tail and wasting huge amounts of time testing to make things 'fair'... and very rarely are they ever fair.
If you want to take handling into account too... then it's completely impossible to level the field out, as one car will be better than another on a different track, even at different temperatures.
- 1,433
- Germany
- psychoazubi
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
There is no PP type system in racing sims that I'm aware of. You can limit to a car class (GT3 eg.) or multiple car classes, individual cars, or multiple cars. It's assumed that the cars being from the same class are well balanced, and anything else is hit and miss. A supercar vs. supercar battle may or may not be balanced naturally, but there is no exterior balance adjustment like a PP system. If you want dead equal racing in street cars, one make is your best bet.
GTAndy36
Premium
- 925
- Wiltshire, UK
- AndySimba
Yeah, I understand I may have drifted from the original question. Apologies.
Car classes exist in real life to balance competition. That's what Project CARS is adopting, just the use of car classes. Most racing sims run to this idea, because it's the most simple and 'realistic' system to adopt.
If you want a finely balanced race with street cars, then having bhp limits, weight limits, adding of ballast etc will have to be used. Or the most simple balancing; one-make racing.
- 2,091
- Glasgow
- Flaw3dGenius23
After being used to Forza's online setup/classes i think PCars is going to be a revelation.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
GTAndy36
Premium
- 925
- Wiltshire, UK
- AndySimba
Maybe I should have said... "every other sim should!" It's a tuning and levelling tool for races. Really should be available tbh. Just my opinion.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Sim racing is about replicating real life as close as possible. Obviously you won't climb out of your rig smelling like racing fuel, but to the extent that one can replicate reality in the game, they will. If ballast isn't used in a racing series, it won't be available in the game. In a sim, the fastest guys are expected to win that's just how real racing works and sim racing as well. Your best equalizer is probably going to be a reverse grid second race in a series type event, something I'm sure will be an option since it's also a real life thing in some series.
GTAndy36
Premium
- 925
- Wiltshire, UK
- AndySimba
Yeah that's fair enough.
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
I can understand a reason to not allow it if a racing series does not allow it. That said you should be able to add it to any street car, though may be limited as to where it can be added. For example I add ballast to my Tbird in the winter time in the form of two 50lb bags of sand over the rear wheels for more traction so it is pretty easy to do this in the real world.
killerjimbag
(Banned)
- 4,018
- The Great White North
- abetterplaya
That's why they make snow tires
Putting 100 lbs of sand in the trunk will be great when the back end gets no traction on ice. Then again,you could always use the sand to get traction by throwing it under the tires.
Putting 100 lbs of sand in the trunk will be great when the back end gets no traction on ice. Then again,you could always use the sand to get traction by throwing it under the tires.
- 28,471
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Maybe, but I don't think you'll be seeing ballast in the game. It will only slow you down anyway so I'm not sure what the point would be. The cars already come with proper weight distribution, and without the ability to weight reduce the cars, ballast is kind of pointless.
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
My point was just that you can do this in real life to a street car so. There are also cases where it can help. Some cars are front heavy, some are rear heavy a little ballast to balance them can sometimes help but it really doesn't matter.
I remember when I played Forza 2 they had 4 classes of race cars R4,3,2,1 many of the cars in those classes were pretty evenly matched, each had its strengths and weakness, some a little more speed and some a little more grip or torque. No upgrades were allowed just tuning the stuff that was there. In the case of the R2 class especially if you knew what you were doing both tuning and driving you could be competitive in any of them on most tracks.
After FM2 they changed it to allow the race cars to be modified and allow other high cars to creep into the race classes which messed up everything. All the race cars had aero on them, the higher the class the more aero which counts toward the PI and can not be removed, did not matter if you had the DF set to min or max the PI was the same. The result was someone could bring a super car into say R2 with over 1000hp and little or no aero and destroy all the race cars on high speed tracks. The result was that no one hardly drove the GT cars as there would always be some super car that could beat them easily on almost every track.
I remember when I played Forza 2 they had 4 classes of race cars R4,3,2,1 many of the cars in those classes were pretty evenly matched, each had its strengths and weakness, some a little more speed and some a little more grip or torque. No upgrades were allowed just tuning the stuff that was there. In the case of the R2 class especially if you knew what you were doing both tuning and driving you could be competitive in any of them on most tracks.
After FM2 they changed it to allow the race cars to be modified and allow other high cars to creep into the race classes which messed up everything. All the race cars had aero on them, the higher the class the more aero which counts toward the PI and can not be removed, did not matter if you had the DF set to min or max the PI was the same. The result was someone could bring a super car into say R2 with over 1000hp and little or no aero and destroy all the race cars on high speed tracks. The result was that no one hardly drove the GT cars as there would always be some super car that could beat them easily on almost every track.
- 219
'Fair racing' online is half fallacy really, there are many factors:
- Some cars suit different peoples' driving styles
- Some people are just better (i.e. will be 6 seconds/lap faster in the same car)
- Default setups can suit different peoples' styles
- Some tracks suit people better than others (also dependent on track knowledge)
- in Project CARS, track altitude, ambient temp etc affect grip and performance, so need to be considered
So what does Project CARS offer?
You can restrict by class
You can restrict to same model
You can adjust the restrictor plate (reduces/increases HP) or compounds in car setup to create 'BoP'
You can pick the car in class that best suits your style (the GT3 class is really well balanced already)
You can make sure you know who you are racing with and get the faster guys to pick the 'slower' cars or increase the restrictor plate, or even increase boost pressure
You can run practice and qualifying sessions to get an idea of capability and the lobbies are quite configurable.
All in all the game should at least provide plenty of options for fair racing
- Some cars suit different peoples' driving styles
- Some people are just better (i.e. will be 6 seconds/lap faster in the same car)
- Default setups can suit different peoples' styles
- Some tracks suit people better than others (also dependent on track knowledge)
- in Project CARS, track altitude, ambient temp etc affect grip and performance, so need to be considered
So what does Project CARS offer?
You can restrict by class
You can restrict to same model
You can adjust the restrictor plate (reduces/increases HP) or compounds in car setup to create 'BoP'
You can pick the car in class that best suits your style (the GT3 class is really well balanced already)
You can make sure you know who you are racing with and get the faster guys to pick the 'slower' cars or increase the restrictor plate, or even increase boost pressure
You can run practice and qualifying sessions to get an idea of capability and the lobbies are quite configurable.
All in all the game should at least provide plenty of options for fair racing
Last edited:
