Proton and Lotus In Trouble, Again

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Proton will collapse unless it finds an international partner such as Volkswagen, said Mahathir Mohamad, who founded the Malaysia-based company twenty years ago. "At the rate it is going, it's not going to last long," Mahathir told Bloomberg. While Proton cars are not sold here in North America, they are sold in the United Kingdom, South Africa and Australia.

Perhaps more important to car enthusiasts, however, is the future of Lotus, which Proton acquired in 1996. Just three weeks ago, Proton said it would not consider selling Lotus, even if the financial situation worsens.

One possible partner for Proton/Lotus is Volkswagen, which Mahathir says is still willing to talk. VW has reportedly said it does not want control of the company. Interestingly, Volkswagen was said to be collaborating with Lotus on the now-cancelled GX3 three-wheeler.

Read the Bloomberg Worldwide story here

Read the Forbes story here

Well that certainly isn't good news. Given that Proton is in rough shape, it is only a matter of time before the hard times in Malaysia hit the shores of the UK. Yes, there are 200 jobs allready slated to be cut, but who says there won't be more?

Best-case-scenario would be for Proton to sell-off Lotus (as it certainly would be worth a large sum of money) to a company like Volkswagen (YES PLEASE!) or Toyota (NOOOOO!). With more money to play with, Lotus could develop not only some awesome street/race cars, but maybe get into the game of sport sedans once again.
 
Well Proton arn't nearly as good quality as Skoda, so yes they could I guess. But Lotus would be the better aquisition since VAG don't have a company like them within their corporate umbrella.
 
If Volkswagen buys Lotus, then a car company will be selling cars with a 0-60 of 10 seconds and 5 seconds as well. Weird.
 
I'm just saying that is really doesn't make any sense for VAG to try to get Lotus, particularly with the recent launch of the R8. In addition, Toyota has no competition with any of Lotus's models, and they supply the engines for most (or possibly all, depending on the Esprit) of them anyways.
 
If Volkswagen buys Lotus, then a car company will be selling cars with a 0-60 of 10 seconds and 5 seconds as well. Weird.
VAG already owns a car company that build a car that hits 60 in 3.4 seconds, Lamborghini, and the LP640.
 
If lotus are still at the forefront of having technology to make cars ultra light, VAG could benifit majorly from their expertise.
 
The only real area VAG and Lotus would conflict would be the next Esprit, it would conflict with either the Murcielago or the Gallardo depending on just how serious a supercar the new Esprit is.
 
And that isn't a big problem? And brsides, if it competes with the Gallardo it competes with three products that VAG: The R8, Gallardo and 911 Turbo (I know it isn't actually part of VAG. But it does own VAG).
 
Porsche don't own VAG, they own a stake in them. This is merely to secure the technical investments Porsche has made with regards to the sharing of platforms and parts in models like the Cayenne and correct me if I'm wrong but the majority of their stake is invested in VW themselves as opposed to the group as a whole since it's VW that Porsche shares a platform with. As for the R8 and gallardo, the R8 is marketed below the Gallardo, the R8 has 420bhp and will be cheaper, the gallardo has 500bhp and has the Lamborghini price.
 
Isn't Porsche's stake the controlling stake though (granted, you may be right in only owning VW)?
live4speed
As for the R8 and gallardo, the R8 is marketed below the Gallardo, the R8 has 420bhp and will be cheaper, the gallardo has 500bhp and has the Lamborghini price.
But what if the Esprit ships splitting the difference in power?


Regardless of any of that, would it not be simpler for VW to merely get Lotus consultation than try to buy out the company? It's been done many more times than I can count.
 
I think if VAG were to acquire lotus they could help push lotus to be the raw lightweight track racers, something which the lambos arent. Either way I want VAG to make some RWD cars so we can see how they'd perform without the 4wd.
 
This is old news fellas. VW has also lost interest in buying back Lotus. Things are still up in the air, yes, but nothing bad for the near future.
 
Proton Will Collapse Without a Foreign Partner

Oct. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Proton Holdings Bhd., Malaysia's biggest carmaker, will collapse unless it finds an international partner such as Volkswagen AG, said former premier Mahathir Mohamad, who set up the company more than two decades ago.

"At the rate it is going, it's not going to last long,'' said Mahathir, 80, who became an adviser to the Shah Alam, Malaysia-based automaker after stepping down as prime minister in 2003. "Proton is reporting losses all the time, and they still have a lot of cars which they cannot sell.''

Proton has been losing market share to overseas rivals including Toyota Motor Corp., and needs to gain new technology and designs to compete. Volkswagen ended talks with the Malaysian carmaker in January because the two sides couldn't agree on issues including control of the company.

"The government may need to offer a bigger stake or give up management control,'' said Raymond Tang, who manages $1.7 billion as chief investment officer of CIMB-Principal Asset Management Bhd. in Kuala Lumpur. Those are "the main points which they failed to agree on in previous talks,'' said Tang, who doesn't own the company's shares.

Proton's Chairman Mohammed Azlan Hashim and Managing Director Zainal Abidin Syed Mohd Tahir weren't immediately available for comment, the company's head of corporate communications, Faridah Idris, said by telephone today.

Proton, which produces eight car designs under its brand and two types of Lotus sports cars, has been seeking a foreign partner since Mitsubishi Motors Corp. and Mitsubishi Corp. ended more than two decades of investment in the company in January 2005.

Volkswagen

Proton and state-owned investment agency Khazanah Nasional Bhd., which owns 43 percent of the automaker, are studying whether a foreign investor could revive its fortunes, Malaysia's Second Finance Minister Nor Mohamed Yakcop said Sept. 5.

Selling a majority stake isn't "absolutely necessary,'' Mahathir said in the interview. Volkswagen, based in Wolfsburg, Germany, didn't want control of the company, he said.

"I still think Volkswagen is willing'' to talk, he said. "Despite my initial intervention,'' Proton "seems to be not keen at all to have anything to do with Volkswagen.''

Proton is also in talks to make cars with China's Jinhua Youngman Automobile Group Co. and Chery Automobile Co., as well as India's Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd. Those companies may be allowed to buy a minority stake in the company in return for helping it expand in the world's two most populous nations, Deputy Prime Minister Najib Razak said on June 19.

"We were working with Volkswagen and we had nearly completed'' the negotiations, Mahathir said. "We would be manufacturing Volkswagen cars here and also using Volkswagen technology here. But the new management wants to work with China and India, thinking that they can enter these markets. I don't think they are going to get very far.''

Tariff Protection

The Malaysian carmaker's competitiveness has been eroded by the government's new auto policy, introduced in March, which made it cheaper to import cars into Malaysia, Mahathir said. The government cut import taxes to 5 percent from 15 percent.

"Proton cannot survive'' without protection, he said. "When you go to Korea you don't see foreign cars. It's the same in Japan. They have ways and means of ensuring that foreign cars do not compete with their cars in their country.''

The company's share of Malaysia's car market fell to 40 percent last year from as much as two-thirds during the 1980s.

Malaysia, aiming to become a regional hub for car manufacturers such as Toyota and Isuzu Motors Ltd., offers incentives and tax breaks for overseas carmakers to assemble their products in the country.

Honda, Toyota

Proton's loss widened to 58.6 million ringgit ($16 million) in the first quarter ended June 30, from 12.4 million ringgit a year earlier as a lack of new models damped sales, the company said in August. Revenue fell 31 percent to 1.42 billion ringgit.

"Proton needs a strong partner,'' said CIMB-Principal Asset's Tang. "The best partners could be something like Honda or Toyota. Those companies are very good at what they do but they may want to be able to institute changes.''

Proton last month signed an initial agreement with PSA Peugeot Citroen to study the possibility of developing new models together. The agreement is Proton's third this year with an overseas carmaker for possible joint product development.

"If you merely make an arrangement in order to get the platforms from some company, that is not a transfer of technology,'' Mahathir said, referring to the Peugeot accord. If "that's what they intend to do now, that's not going to do any good for Proton.''

New Models

Proton is also developing a new model using Mitsubishi Motors' components and technology, which it plans to start selling early next year. The Malaysian carmaker, which last year posted its lowest profit since 1991, aims to introduce six models, including its first multi-purpose vehicle, this year through 2008 to reverse slumping sales.

Auto sales in Malaysia are set to decline for the first time in three years as falling prices of used cars, stricter lending rules, higher interest rates and an increase in fuel prices curb demand, the Malaysian Automotive Association said in July.

The reduction in import taxes earlier this year pushed down prices of new and used cars.

"The problem is the government insisted that the price of cars should be lowered, which is fine for the buying party but what they didn't realize is that they lowered the price so much that they lost money,'' Mahathir said. "Proton certainly lost a lot of money.''

Source: Bloomberg
 
May I ask what difference it makes?

Certainly:

I'd want Volkswagen to pick up the pieces as generally they are quite successful of shoveling money at brands and letting them do as they please. Having Lotus fully on-board would give Lotus more bits and pieces from the Volkswagen lineup (1.4 TSI and 2.0 TFSI anyone?), most importanly the DSG transmission.

...Not to say that Toyota would be horrible, but c'mon... They've sucked enough life out of their own brands, why do the same to Lotus? Just because they sell them an engine for the Elise/Exige doesn't over-qualify them for anything. As if that is the case, GM would have an oppertunity to buy as well (wouldn't happen, as I doubt GM is looking to get re-married after the previous setup).

What Lotus could (overall) offer VAG is the knowlege in building lightweight sports models, and maybe a few tricks to lighten up their sedans and coupes as well. I could see huge benefits comming for something like the Sciroco (by Lotus?) and later on, the R36. Maybe they could figure out how to build a GX4 for street use, given that the GX3 was too-radical...?
 
It was a fine car, but I don't think anyone was willing to pay Lotus money for what should have been bodied as the ultimate hot hatch (instead of a FWD roadster).

RE: VAG or Toyota... I don't think VAG could gain that much from Lotus. They already have the resources they need for chassis lightening and for handling... the cars are just getting heavier to meet VW's need for luxury. They have to keep adding insulation and amenities to uphold their image as a premium brand compared to the Japanese and Americans.

If VW is finally starting to back off to keep from nipping at Audi's heels, expect them to start going down in weight, too. VAG's only problem, really, is itself. Too many sub-brands competing with each other, stepping on each other's toes and market share.

I think Toyota could do well with Lotus. A lot of new Toyotas I've driven in the past year could do with a shot of suspension refinement... or a total overhaul... :ouch:

They'd give Lotus big money and a stable supply of engines (hmmm... 300+ hp V6 for the base Esprit?) that wouldn't break. Heck, Toyota could use Lotus for their F1 program (God knows Toyota needs it... all that money spent and still no wins...).

I think Toyota - Lotus would be a good buy. Toyota has no sub-marquees that scream performance, and Lotus would probably help boost their staid image. Imagine a 1.5 hybrid Lotus Elise, using Prius technology? Imagine the LF-A badged as a Lotus, with suspension and handling tweaks by Lotus? A Lotus Supra? :lol:
 
I don't get why so many people think Proton have been bad for Lotus.
 
Proton isn't a good comapny itself but they've managed Lotus pretty well, but I think it's a monetary contribution people are look for here, Proton isn't going to invest as much as a compnay like VAG or Toyota into Lotus because quite simply, they can't.
 
^ Quite right. As noted (I belive in one of the articles), Proton is dependant on what Lotus does to keep afloat... Not just to keep money in the pockets of the folks in the UK. Given that sales have dropped off here in the US due to meeting demands too quickly, and generally ignoring those looking for an entry-level model (I think they are missing the boat by not sending the 160 BHP model here...) they are going to lose sales.

But, we aren't at Proton Armegedon yet. Things could change if VW gets involved, like the articles point to...
 
VW could buy proton and make them work as a seperate identity, selling super cheap cars below skoda.

:odd:

Can they go any cheaper than Skodas without losing build quality? I know Skods aren't Kia cheap, but damn.

They already do... Depending on your budget you can buy the same basic car from Audi (expensivest), VW (expensive), Skoda (not as expensive) and SEAT (least expensiver).
 
If Lotus is bought out, they better have its own idenity. Porsche happens to be under the umbrella and share some components. IMO Lotus better not.
 
Why not, they share parts as is, pretty important parts such as the engines. If your referring to the chassis then if anything nich cars within the umbrella will make use of the Lotus chassis rather than the Lotus being based on something else's, which again has happened before.
 

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