Pushrod Ford

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Will we ever see another pushrod V8 from Ford?

The new Hurricane/Boss 302 is OHC, like all other mod engines. Now the mod motors put out good power now that the after market (and I suspect Ford has had a bit of a learning curve here as well, at the first 2V 4.6 V8's were little better than the 5.0's they were replacing) has figured out how to build them. But a pushrod engine is much more compact, and the mod motors are certainly not a very friendly fit when it comes to width and height.

It seems that Ford is 100% committed to OHC, but I am sure they are looking longingly at the success of the LS-series GM engines and the big following DC got with the Hemi. I mean, a 5.4 mod motor needs an iron block and a blower to sit in the same league as a LS7.

So could they still do an about-face on the OHC commitment? Remember, in '99 the OHC Chrysler 4.7L was billed as their "next generation" engine. It was slated to replace the LA. Then, we see the Hemi out of nowhere and the 4.7 is relegated to a down-spec engine.

Thoughts?
 
Ford realizes the Pushrod is out dated? To get lots of power out of a push rod, you'll notice displacement is key.

And its fairly well known that OHC setups can run more efficiently than a pushrod. Its just Ford using technology, rather than trying to keep an old horse running :P
 
Azuremen
Ford realizes the Pushrod is out dated? To get lots of power out of a push rod, you'll notice displacement is key.

And its fairly well known that OHC setups can run more efficiently than a pushrod. Its just Ford using technology, rather than trying to keep an old horse running :P
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Yes, but pushrods has its benefits too, like I mentioned external engine size and also manufacturing costs. And GM has shown that a big displacement pushrod engine can get decent fuel economy too. Putting a variable displacement system on a OHC V8 is much more complex than the same task on a OHV engine.

I don't really want to discuss the pros/cons of pushrod/OHC, since that has other threads, but I agree on your efficiency point.

In power-happy america pushrod engines have a strong following and many have fond memories of the 5.0/302. GM and DC can cheaply put a lot of power into some of their sedans so I think the old horse has some life left in it :)
 
Ford is not commited specificaly OHC. they're commited to the modualar V8 program, because it saves them money. the new 302 is OHC because the modular V8 block is an OHC block. it's cheaper for them to produce/mix and match cranks and pistons to make a modualar 302 than it would be to build an entirely new OHV engine from scratch. now i know ford racing sells OHV crate engines but i dont think those are designed to comply with modern regulations, which is why you dont see them going into production cars. Honestly, the modualr V8 is c*** anyway. it's huge, (and obviously heavy) not just the heads but the block too. i used to be a huge fan of the mustang cobras over their camaro counterparts, for their "smaller" 4.6 liter twin cam engines. that was untill i realized they weren't smaller at all. in fact they were bigger. ford has the right idea with the modualr engine, but they're not doing it even close to right. first step, stop puting out such huge engines with so little displacement. and secondly, if it's gonna be OHC, it may as well be four valve per cylinder too. without that, OHV is capable of just as much power, so whats the point?
 
An OHC engine will always be bigger than the comparable OHV engine.

The Ford Racing parts 302 they sell is not emissions compliant, but I don't think the architecture is really flawed; if Ford really wanted to they could bring it up to compliance.
 
skip0110
An OHC engine will always be bigger than the comparable OHV engine.

The Ford Racing parts 302 they sell is not emissions compliant, but I don't think the architecture is really flawed; if Ford really wanted to they could bring it up to compliance.
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The heads will be bigger. (taller and wider) but the block it'self can be the same size. fords modualar V8 block is actualy bigger than GMs' LS engine block, yet displaces much less on average. consider that the smallest variation of the LS is a 5.3 liter, and the largest variation of the modular V8 is a 5.4 liter. something seems wrong there to me.

IMO, the size and weight gains of an OHC engine are overcome by the gains in performance, over an OHV engine of identical displacement. Especialy in naturaly asperated aplications.

And yes i 100 percent agree with you about the FR 302. i wish they would. but it all comes down to money. i dont think that engine is even designed to run FI, is it?
 
Well, Motor Trend seems to think in some strange way that Ford developed the "Hurricane" BOSS 302 V8 for use in the upcoming BOSS 302 Mustang model, and for later use in the 2009+ Mustangs to better compete with the Camaro and Challenger.

Keep in mind that the "Hurricane" engine was originally thought to be a part of Ford's new OHV system, to better compete against GM's Vortec and LS-series engines, but apparently we were all wrong. There was a point in time where the program was to be scrapped on the whole, but that didn't happen either.

IMO, Ford won't do it because they don't want to. They seem to think that their "modular" engines are so far ahead of the competition despite the fact that the only way you can make decent power is by adding forced induction, why change anything? I guess I can't be too upset with the way they are handling things, they have indeed managed to keep costs down, but on the performance side of things, I'm a little upset.
 
In 2002 Ford started using the overhead Duratech engine in the Ka. Models early 2002 and earlier used the Endura E engine based on the Kent.
 
3-Wheel Drive
Pushrods also have a lot more moving pars, making them more susceptible to breakdown.
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Heres a good thing to point out there; They don't break down. You show me a Ford OHC/DOHC V8 that will last longer than an OHV GM V8 and I'll buy you an ice-cream cone...
 
Ford for some reason designed the modular motors like a pushrod motor.

They have lifters, rockers, and a timing chain just like a pushrod 302.

The chain has a complex hydraulic tensioning system that is at least as complicated as the set of pushrods on a 302.
 
i think pushrods have their place in larger motors (v8s v10s whatever) but i would love to see gm get rid of the aging pushrod v6 we keep seeing updated, the old horse is definitely not dead though seeing how daimler chrysler actually designed a new pushrod motor from the ground up that it plans to use for generations, pushrods tend to be cheaper and more compact, and for that reason i think it would be cool if for engineered a new pushrod v8 for the mustang so it can shed some of those pounds that are holding it back
 
The 3800 V6? Sadly, GM's longest lasting motor, and the last remaining version of the original turbocharged engine as wll as the last engine with ties to the Rover V8, has been sceduled to be killed sometime in the future to be replaced with the High Feature engine in most applications.
 
...To further expand on what Toronado had said...

The GM pushrod V6 is slowly being phased out in most applications, and may be replaced altogether in the very near future. The last year for the 3800 I believe is this year, if not next, as its torch will be passed-on with the 3900 "High Value" V6 that has already seen several updates since its introduction late last year. The 3500 "High Value" has also received several updates, as GM is hoping to become a value-leader when it comes to V6 power.

But even as pushrod engines, GM has managed to keep them running with the rest of the world. Last year was the first year for constant variable valve timing on the 3500 and 3900, and earlier this year cylinder deactivation was added to the 3900, which allows it to run on a single bank of cylinders when power isn't needed. There is of course the main point that both V6s also only require "regular" 87-octane fuel, and both can run on E85 fuels as well.

But as Toronado mentioned, the "High Value" or "Alloytec" V6 line will be expanding over the next few years and presumably will replace the 3500 and 3900 in most circumstances in the near-future. The 3.6L version is quickly becoming a favorite at GM, and because of production costs falling, it is beginning to appear in more products across the company. The good news is that GM will be adding direct-injection to the engine next year, and that alone should bump its current output (252-275 BHP) north of 300 BHP to better compete with the Japanese and German high-power six-pots.

There have been rumors as well that the 2.8L "High Feature" V6 may begin to appear in more vehicles as well, but I do doubt that one at the current time. The engine is still too expensive for most American models, and doesn't offer enough power to satisfy most American drivers.

However, GM's commitment to pushrods has yet to diminish. There was a report a few years ago that GM was to remained committed until the end of the decade, and after that it is free-game. A good guess is that GM will begin to work in more diesel products along with the more sophisticated Opel, FIAT, and Holden sourced V6 engines in the near future, or will begin to design new "High Feature" V6 engines for the American market.

*BTW: The term "High Feature" at GM usually refers to an all-aluminum engine with DOHC and VVT.

* BBTW: The term "High Value" at GM usually refers to an all iron, or iron block aluminum head engine with OHV and VVT.
 
yeah i was happy to hear about the use of the high feature engines in more cars outside of Cadillac. the old high value motors have their place, and i believe that to be in the past, ive driven many different cars with many different versions of this engine including supercharged versions and i was never impressed by any of them, i was driving a pontiac with a 3.8 and it felt ok, now i drive a much older car with sohc and only 3 liters to work with, i know for a fact that i pay less overall for gas even though its premium, and it sure as hell feels a lot more powerful (even though its 177hp vs i think 170 for the 3.8)
 

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