Question About the A.I

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conjerski

conjerski

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conjerski
When I first bought the game and was playing it, as with everyone else I thought the A.I was ordinary so then I played mostly online after doing all the events I wanted to. Now that online is out, I am doing events again and have noticed that when you come up close to the A.I (especially half way through a turn) the A.I. just lets go of the throttle and slow down for about 3-4secs and then accel. as normal.

My questions are
1); has this been from day 1? I don;t remember it and it is so annoying when they just slow down and you can;t do anything but ram them. Especially when you finally get a good race when you pick a slower car and that happens.

2); Is it something that could be changed in a patch? I assume it would be a fairly big task to change their ways. So i assume not.
 
This is only something I notice part of the time. I think it ties into the whole "AI isn't the smartest" kind of deal. Maybe it's their way of telling you you're tailgating them :lol:
 
I'm not 100% sure what you're describing. But I do notice the AI drivers tend to behave in a way I see as peculiar, when other cars get close to them.

My bspec aggravates me because he seems unable to grasp the context that a moving car in front of him is going to have moved on from the spot he's going to by the time he gets there. It's as if, when going through a turn, if a car is in front of him, he thinks it's stationary, and slows as if waiting for the car to get out of his way, when if he just kept going, the car ahead would be LONG gone before he got to the spot it occupies. My bspec thus wastes a lot of time dropping more behind than necessary. Because he seems to be not too bright about the mathematics of moving objects through space & time. ;)

I wonder if this is the same behaviour you are seeing when you race against the AI drivers.
 
The AI is weak when it comes to cornering. They'll also slow down if you touch them with your car, especially when touched from the sides.
 
but this is not touching them and not even getting too close to them.
you can hear them just stop accelerating.
It happens more when you get near their qtr panel.
also it happens in straight lines to. I wish I had a capture card to show you.
 
conjerski
When I first bought the game and was playing it, as with everyone else I thought the A.I was ordinary so then I played mostly online after doing all the events I wanted to. Now that online is out, I am doing events again and have noticed that when you come up close to the A.I (especially half way through a turn) the A.I. just lets go of the throttle and slow down for about 3-4secs and then accel. as normal.

My questions are
1); has this been from day 1? I don;t remember it and it is so annoying when they just slow down and you can;t do anything but ram them. Especially when you finally get a good race when you pick a slower car and that happens.

2); Is it something that could be changed in a patch? I assume it would be a fairly big task to change their ways. So i assume not.
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They will not slow down when fighting for position in my opinion but you might notice when you are lapping them they have to get out of the throttle and racing line.
 
I've been doing the Indy Race in Dream Car Championship to test some cars I won. When I am in a slower car like the Citroen GT with zero mods and I try to pass AI on the right side sometimes they slam me against the wall. They'll pull left then take a hard right into me. Bastards... :ouch:
 
jacksmith
They will not slow down when fighting for position in my opinion but you might notice when you are lapping them they have to get out of the throttle and racing line.
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I noticed that they move over once lapped to let leaders through.

I don't find the stupid A.I as bad as I used to. When I use arcade mode and its on pro setting and all cars are race cars the A.I seem to be very competent drivers mostly.
 
jacksmith
They will not slow down when fighting for position in my opinion but you might notice when you are lapping them they have to get out of the throttle and racing line.
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Strange....I've clearly noticed the Ai slowing down when I'm overtaking for position. I've started to overtake on the OUTSIDE of the corners because I was fed up of ramming the Ai as it slowed right down mid corner. It's more noticable for me personaly because I prefer cars than handle than have a speed advantage, so for me corner speed and corner exit are CRITICAL and GT5's AI is REALLY BAD for me.

In answer to the OP, it wasn't this bad from the beginning. Yes, the Ai was slow mid corner but didn't slow even more when the human oppenent was near like it does now. A patch (no idea which version) mentioned changing the Ai "Choreography" or something and I'm certain it's from that patch the Ai went worse.
 
Thanks robbo.
Like you I like my mid corner speed to help me get out and keep up in under powered cars. I am surprised most people haven't noticed it yet :confused:
 
The AI was patched (around 1.05 I think) to make them less aggressive. People complained that the AI wouldn't give up their racing line when a player's car was in the way. I guess those complaining never raced online, or against other real players because nobody gives up their racing line. But, the AI is expected to do so.

The AI was patched a second time to give them a better chance to avoid player's cars that were blocking the track.

Because of these patches, the AI drive a little peculiarly. Their cars have to follow the same rules that a player's car uses, so they can't stop on a dime or turn sharper than a player's car. So, they slow down sometimes when a player's car is very close.

I think the AI should be cranked up to match the player's level. Or, the player should be able to adjust the difficulty of the AI to match their skill level. (The rewards should be adjusted too).

You can still have challenging races against the AI by selecting cars with similar power on the same tires they use.

I was having fun in the Lamborghini Seasonal race driving a 540PP Gallardo with Sports Hard tires.
 
shem
I don't find the stupid A.I as bad as I used to. When I use arcade mode and its on pro setting and all cars are race cars the A.I seem to be very competent drivers mostly.
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I think AI drivers do better in race cars than road cars. I thought it was my imagination, but I definitely have gotten the impression that they actually drive faster more advanced cars better than slower road cars.

iamjajo
The AI was patched (around 1.05 I think) to make them less aggressive. People complained that the AI wouldn't give up their racing line when a player's car was in the way. I guess those complaining never raced online, or against other real players because nobody gives up their racing line. But, the AI is expected to do so.
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I would've said this... That nobody gives up their racing line. Why would they? It's a race!
But basically I see it posted over & over again in organized online racing leagues, that a big rule is that you are supposed to give up your racing line to a faster car.
That seemed crazy to me... because who would give up the racing line in a RACE? To a faster car? Staying on your racing line might be your only chance to win against this so-called "faster car".
But then my bf told me that apparently the rules they're using actually have some real world racing basis.
Though I'm not sure what the deal is.

Now if I'm in an online race and there's a car going to pass me on a narrow straight, I may move to one side of the road to let them by if I think they're going to wind up scraping or bumping me if I don't. lol

But frankly, I think if you're going through a turn, if you're in front, you get the racing line. That's common sense. Why would you, as the lead car, check your rear view mirror during a turn and say - oh, wait, I'm going to leave the driving line halfway through this turn because this person is tailgating me - so i'll give him the racing line. ???
Like on Nurburg... I think if the lead car makes it to the carousel first - they get the carousel line... the car behind needs to either hold back to use the carousel line, or go on the up outside around the carousel to pass the lead car.
Makes no sense to deliberately leave the driving line to let someone else by in a race. But I'm assuming there's something I'm missing in this issue.

And I don't think the AIs do this. I don't see them leaving the driving line for my benefit. I just see them slowing down more than they need to, and not closing gaps they could easily close (for the reason I posted earlier above).

I do know that most of the time you can prevent AIs from passing just by adhering well to the driving line. This is on certain tracks, provided their car isn't way better than yours. They won't leave the driving line to pass unless they have a good shot of getting the speed to complete the pass.
 
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I notice this especially in karting. If you so much as overlap on the inside or outside of them they lift off the throttle or even brake
 
The AI slows down when you're behind them, but gawd do they love sticking to you when you are in the lead! Perhaps it just nerves, or wrongful judgement on my part, but I always believe this to be true for AI in car games.

The only exception are a few Special Events in GT5, where the AI (leader) , albeit scripted, starts out way ahead, and is also quite fast too. Hard to catch those, but worth the challenge.
 
I think they just patched the AI like that so nobody would get taken off the road by a comp car.. even tho they still will ram you from behind if youre in the wrong spot at the wrong time in a hard braking corner (on La Sarthe with Arnage and the first Mulsanne kink especially).. if youre in front of a pack of cars there.. my advice to you is move the hell over because theyll hit you
 
This was changed in I think 1.06 as I got the game shortly before that and didn't notice it until after that patch. I might have just not noticed before, but it's pretty obvious and there were a lot of changes made to AI behavior in that patch.

It happens regularly when you pull alongside them while they are cornering, and occasionally when you are right on their bumper. If you are behind and get a better run out of a corner, if you catch them in the straight they won't slow down and will put up a nice fight into the next corner(well, within their basic ability), but if they are turning at all when you catch them they stop. It even happens in the "corner" pulling onto the start of the first big straight at Le Mans.

Unfortunately, every thread about this gets locked and referred to an ancient thread that isn't even about this issue, so the discussion never gets very far. Not that there's very much we can do about it other than learn how to drive around it.
 
ZR1fan
they still will ram you from behind if youre in the wrong spot at the wrong time in a hard braking corner (on La Sarthe with Arnage and the first Mulsanne kink especially).. if youre in front of a pack of cars there.. my advice to you is move the hell over because theyll hit you
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Experienced this more than once or twice.
I've also felt it at the 90° turn end of the straight.
And on a few other tracks in certain places... Rome I think at one of the turns I tend to get bunted.
 
I find suzuka is the worst track for it. Especially turns 3 -7. It is really frustrating when they brake, so you go to the inside, which then becomes the outside of the next bend and so on...
I also find, say you are doing the tuned car races, and you have the exact same car as the a.i., they are always faster than you in a straight line.

I've always wanted a sort of qualifying effect. You do say 3 practice laps that have to be with a certain percentage of each (say 1 sec), then when you go to race the A.I is based on your pace that you have done over those laps.
 
Are some of these races you guys speak of against cars with comfort/sports tires, while you're using tires with more grip? I started doing races with comfort soft for decent cars and sports hard for significantly higher powered cars. It's way more fun than using racing tires and feels 100% more realistic racing other cars with the same tires.
 
another_jakhole
Are some of these races you guys speak of against cars with comfort/sports tires, while you're using tires with more grip? I started doing races with comfort soft for decent cars and sports hard for significantly higher powered cars. It's way more fun than using racing tires and feels 100% more realistic racing other cars with the same tires.
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Either,
I am using stock cars with stock tyres. It doesn't matter what you use. I did find in arcade that they do drive differently. This happens in A spec in any race.
 
watermelonpunch
Experienced this more than once or twice.
I've also felt it at the 90° turn end of the straight.
And on a few other tracks in certain places... Rome I think at one of the turns I tend to get bunted.
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i just brake for the outside of the usual line.. typically the rammer cars will rocket straight past you (And sometimes take out the cars ahead for you too).. actually its made me have this habit of checking the rear view mirrors in real life, not going to lie this saved me a road rage rear ender (some turd in an Explorer i flashed to let him know the light was green as i passed.. i took his lane, stopped at the next light.. checked my mirrors... saw him coming, dived into the next lane, and watched him screech to a halt trying not to hit the car that was ahead of me.. SO funny) and at least one other accidental one..
 
ZR1fan
.. actually its made me have this habit of checking the rear view mirrors in real life, not going to lie this saved me a road rage rear ender (some turd in an Explorer i flashed to let him know the light was green as i passed.. i took his lane, stopped at the next light.. checked my mirrors... saw him coming, dived into the next lane, and watched him screech to a halt trying not to hit the car that was ahead of me.. SO funny) and at least one other accidental one..
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That's horrible. What a prick.

Regarding the topic, I really don't think the A.I. is that bad anymore. Just drive like you would in real life without taking close-call turns, unless it's essential to pass someone up, then of course, risk what you would in real life to get a win. It's so much more improved than it used to be.
 
another_jakhole
That's horrible. What a prick.

Regarding the topic, I really don't think the A.I. is that bad anymore. Just drive like you would in real life without taking close-call turns, unless it's essential to pass someone up, then of course, risk what you would in real life to get a win. It's so much more improved than it used to be.
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Hey coulda been worse.. lucky for me my Pilot didnt ask any questions when i gunned it to get out of the fords way.. you gotta go that thing GOES.. thank god the lane was open i had literally 3 seconds to think and move.. getting a little sick of those close calls.. anyways moving on

I always give the AI cars their respect.. even though this one banzai S2000 outright obliterated the Esprit ahead of him during the polyphony event on grand valley in the first corner once when he tried a move to pass it, however he wound up going in too hot on the Lotus and the back end got away from him.. so instead of diving inside, the Honda basically pirouetted a complete 180 and backed square into him at 100+ mph.. they damn near collected the ISF next to them too on their way to the trap.. i was watching this in the reverse view from my ZR1 on the next straight ahead of them..
 
conjerski
When I first bought the game and was playing it, as with everyone else I thought the A.I was ordinary so then I played mostly online after doing all the events I wanted to. Now that online is out, I am doing events again and have noticed that when you come up close to the A.I (especially half way through a turn) the A.I. just lets go of the throttle and slow down for about 3-4secs and then accel. as normal.
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My guess is that the following happens: You come up from some way behind the AI car. The AI always behaves like your b-spec Bob. If it runs by itself, the bar goes completely cold, which has the primary effect that it will go slower through corners.

Now, the AI's emotion bar only goes up slowly, if another car is close by. If you catch up fast, the AI will still go slow through corners, which will seem to you like it's braking on purpose.

This effect can be observed very nicely when you compare corner speeds in the long right-hander at Tsukuba. You get differing speeds by at least 20-30 km/h depending on the AI's emotional state and sometimes they just brake almost mid-corner, if they are in a cold state.
 
snowgt
My guess is that the following happens: You come up from some way behind the AI car. The AI always behaves like your b-spec Bob. If it runs by itself, the bar goes completely cold, which has the primary effect that it will go slower through corners.

Now, the AI's emotion bar only goes up slowly, if another car is close by. If you catch up fast, the AI will still go slow through corners, which will seem to you like it's braking on purpose.

This effect can be observed very nicely when you compare corner speeds in the long right-hander at Tsukuba. You get differing speeds by at least 20-30 km/h depending on the AI's emotional state and sometimes they just brake almost mid-corner, if they are in a cold state.
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want a good laugh? Look at the Like the Wind Toyota 7 bringing up the rear of the pack after your B spec driver rear ends it several times.. looks identical to a bi plane that just hit the turf
 
snowgt
My guess is that the following happens: You come up from some way behind the AI car. The AI always behaves like your b-spec Bob. If it runs by itself, the bar goes completely cold, which has the primary effect that it will go slower through corners.

Now, the AI's emotion bar only goes up slowly, if another car is close by. If you catch up fast, the AI will still go slow through corners, which will seem to you like it's braking on purpose.

This effect can be observed very nicely when you compare corner speeds in the long right-hander at Tsukuba. You get differing speeds by at least 20-30 km/h depending on the AI's emotional state and sometimes they just brake almost mid-corner, if they are in a cold state.
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This is not the case, although I have wondered whether what you describe does also happen. The issue is exactly as conjerski described it. It is a specific action that they take when you start to overlap their car where they decelerate in a manner completely unlike anything they would be doing if you were not there, at any point in the corner, even if they would otherwise be at full throttle with no possibility of a near collision with you. It can be seen quite clearly if you use the minimap zoomed in close enough.

This will happen any time -- whether they have been driving by themselves or if they have been in the heat of battle with you and other AIs for the entire race, and it happens on lap 1 when they would not have yet gone to 'cruise' mode. They also do not exhibit this behavior when racing each other, it is some sort of player avoidance maneuver. My current theory is that it somehow erroneously triggers their 'being lapped' behavior. Sometimes when they do it while you are simply following instead of pulling alongside them(this does happen but not as often), they will actually pull off of the racing line for you.

Bottom line is that any time you wish to pass an AI car, no matter how fast it is, all you need to do is pull around to the outside line in virtually any corner and they will courteously park up for you until you are through -- even if you come in too hot and have to slow down quite a bit to avoid hitting the wall or going off-track. Once you are past they will continue as normal, even if that means they are much faster than you. But of course if they do get back by, as soon as you pull alongside while they are turning they will do it again.

It may well be different in arcade mode, I haven't messed around very much with that yet.
 
The AI wasn't like this from day 1, it was an update that totally ruined the AI.
And yeah, I think this could be fixed.

It's really as if the AI said: "Oh sorry, was I in your way? Here, you can win the race if you want to."
 

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