Question for the F-body Savvy

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Jim Prower

Jim Prower

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A friend of mine has a Trans Am WS6 making...eh, 'round 430HP, and he's having some trouble braking. He's already upgraded rotors, fluid, and is running...I think he said his pads were a level below the Ceramic type. anyway, he's looking for something that won't fade after a few stops from 140 miles an hour. He's looking to autocross the car next year. Any suggestions of what sort of brake pads he should look for? He's looking for something that won't need to warm up on the street.
 
I'm not sure what the F-Body racers are running, but it sounds like he would need to upgrade more than just the rotors and pads. If those small fixes he did aren't fixing his stopping problem, I think its time to change out the calipers and increase the diameter of the rotors. I think its a fairly common swap on early 4th gens, later ones I think as well. No idea what the price tag would be, but likely not cheap.
 
I'd imagine he could probably source things from junked 'Vettes if he wanted to do things on the cheap. C5s are getting old enough that they are cheap enough for teens to buy and crash, so tell him to look around.
 
Toronado
I'd imagine he could probably source things from junked 'Vettes if he wanted to do things on the cheap. C5s are getting old enough that they are cheap enough for teens to buy and crash, so tell him to look around.
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I'm trying to remember how good or bad the stopping power was on standard Corvettes, and I can't recall. A Z51-duty setup would probably be just fine, and would probably be available for not a whole lot of cash.
 
Uh, where is he doing multiple 140mph stops? Lol. He doesn't need that for autocross. That's also quite the wrong car for autocross. But anyway, I'm no brake expert but would some sort of stainless steel brake lines, whatever different brake fluid is used for racing, and some sort of ventilation to the brakes help?
 
There isn't a street pad that will handle those sort of stops without fading unless you're running ridiculously large brakes.
 
Brake size doesn't have much to do with it, unless you're looking for mad heat dissipaton are using some racing slick tires. Even stock brake pads can discs can easily overpower extreme summer tires, but obviously they can wear quickly and fade. Many stock applications, like my car, recommend ceramic pad material; it's designed to offer long life, confident stopping power, low dust, and low noise all in one package. But they're not the grippiest things in the world.

For autocross discs are discs. They're all made of iron in general, and since you're only going to be tromping the brakes a couple times in autocross from low speeds heat dissipation through slots or crossdrills isn't going to be a big deal. Larger brakes offer better heat dissipation (there's more material to soak up the heat), and more clamping force, but obviously the brakes have to work within the tires' limits, so more clamping force isn't always necessary, especially if you've got crappy pads.

Right now I'm using Hawk HPS pads with stock discs. They have plenty of power, and over 3 laps at my last track day I didn't notice much fade slowing from ~60-80 mph 4 times a lap. As far as longevity is concerned, I've been using them on the street for a year now, and they've been through an autocross and two time attacks, and plenty of hard street driving.

HP Plus pads are a step above. I know Perfect Balance's friend Cesar (speed junkie) uses HP Plus on his Miata. He's been using them a while on the street, they performed great on the track, and they handle his favorite high-speed braking road just dandy.

I'm a fan of Hawk products, but there are lots of companies out there with similar products. It just so happens that Tire Rack makes it easy to get the high-end Hawk pads.

EDIT: It's also nice to have high temperature brake fluid in the system. At least DOT 4, just because. Cesar uses some fancy Motul stuff, just because. Brake temps in autocross aren't all that crazy like i said, but brake fluid is cheap and it's good to replace it now and then anyway.
 
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Try possibly using C5 Caliper adapter brackets for 93-02 F-body, C5 rotor, C5 calipers, stainless brake lines, more aggressive pad material for the front end.

Upgraded F-body rear rotors, there are plenty of choices. higher spec brake pads for the rear brakes, new lines.

Change out the brake fluid to a higher spec one that will resist heat better, as others have said, upgrade to some braided stainless lines if your converting the brakes anyways.

If its a 93-97, you will need 98-02 spindles. If 98-02, you will just need C5 rotors and the other items above.

C5 rotors have 1.0 inch larger diameter than stock 98-02 F-body. C5 rotors have 1.5" larger diameter than 93-97 F-body. C5 rotors are thicker than both, with directional vents angled to pick up more air than stock LS1/LT1 rotors as well.

You, as advertised can still use the OEM wheels, though I don't see how if you used C6 Z06 rotors and calipers. I'm sure upgraded C5 rotors with stock C5 calipers would be more than enough to woe down the car, if not lock them up. I've NEVER used these, but upgrading to C5 brakes seems like a cheaper alternative to a 2,500.00-3,000.00 brake upgrade from an aftermarket company.

I've found brackets online, I'm not sure if I'll get in trouble for linking to them for you. These I've found online make swaps to even C6 brakes possible. This includes Z-06 (C5/C6). They are are not cheap for two adapters. $250.00. I have found private sellers offering them for as low as $115.00 manufactured by a different company. I'll bookmark the pages, if your interested PM me and I'll give you the link.

IMO C5 brakes would be some serious stopping power, there is more than enough to overpower the tires. I doubt they will fade as much though, especially with upgraded supporting parts.

There is nothing wrong with auto-xing F-bodys.

P/Ns

Hawksthirdgenparts 1993-2002 F-body C5 adapter bracket item # - JM22605

Left front 1997-2004 C5 Caliper GM part # - 12530683
Right front 1997-2004 C5 caliper GM part # - 12530682
(These are $149.00 per, I'm sure Z06 calipers are more.)

Left front 1997-2004 C5 rotor GM part # - 10445857
Right front 1997-2004 C5 rotor GM part # - 10445856
(Set of front and rear, which you would not need are $230.00)

Hope that helps?

Wow and while I'm looking at part numbers, it's totally unrelated but GM part number - 19201990 LS9 crate engine (See ZR-1 Corvette) $21,995.00 :boggled:
 
If he wants to stop faster without spending a bunch of money, here are a few key points.

-Tires. All accelleration forces (that is, fore/aft and lateral) on the car go through the tires. Max performance summer tires will help handle the forces of braking without lockup.
-Pads. Hawk HP+, EBC Red or Yellow, and so on.
-Rotors. He's already upgraded, by the sound of it. If he's got crossdrilled rotors, replace them with some good OEM ones, or possibly slotted. Modern brake pads have mostly made crossdrilling rotors outdated.
-Fluid. ATE Super Blue, Motul RBF600. Bleed your brakes when you change your oil to prevent the fluid in the caliper from accumulating water.

If that's not enough, look toward big brake kits.
 

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