Race Length and Cautions

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Two topics for the price of one! However, we have two topics commonly mentioned in NASCAR. Pick a topic or pick both.

TOPIC 1: RACE LENGTH

Some American racing fans have their complaints about NASCAR Racing. Some say the racing lasts too long and can get too boring. And if you ask me, that isn't too much of a gripe. My complaint would be "how can we stop all the wrecking?" That topic will be discussed after this one. You know races can last as long as 5 seconds to 25 hours (no mistake. The Uniroyal Team Challenge in Europe had a 25-hour race at Spa-Francorchamps earlier this year). To me, some of NASCAR's big race events are perfectly fine, like at Talladega, Daytona, Charlotte, and I'm going to count Sears Point and Watkins Glen because road racing is a better test of endurance and skill. Some have their say about race length. Even if not in NASCAR, what are your views concerning race length? Too long of races? Too short of races? Go ahead and reply.

TOPIC 2: CAUTIONS

What makes lap races longer? Cautions. One idiot bangs into another marginally sane person on track, forces a spin = caution. Everyone wants to be overaggressive, bang into someone, take off a little fender or end plates of a rear wing =debris caution. Oh, and let's not forget for the one-purpose cars that have a weakness = rain caution. How do we minimalize cautions, or what would you suggest? Reply away.
 
In Australia I think cautions are used a bit too liberally. The stewards could send out the saftey car for something as trivial as a front splitter sitting on the track. I think the reason they don't mind sending out the saftey car so much, especially in long races, is to bunch up the field whenever they can to make an artifically close race for the punters.
Up until 1987 when the Bathurst 1000 was part of the World Touring Car Championship, they never had saftey cars at Bathurst. If there was a car broken down or crashed in a dangerous position they would send out the flat bed lift truck from pit lane to drive around the track to wherever the stranded car was with cars driving by at race speed! The only way the racing cars knew there was a truck on the track was by the "slow moving vehicle" flag or the yellow caution flag. How there was never an accident involving a rescue truck I'll never know.
These days the Bathurst 1000 has turned into a series of sprint races broken up by saftey car periods. Gone are the days when you might see a six lap victory.
 
What Champ Cars have done this year is put a one hour 45 minute cap on races, if it ia predicted that they will not finish the amount of laps in time in is declaired a timed race. I really don't like this concept because I like races to finish properly, but maybe a more liberal time limit like 2 hours would be fine. Maybe NASCAR could implement something similar?
 
To me, when it comes to NASCAR, I talked about what races I'd keep in all its entirety. A big race in NASCAR that I forgot was Indianapolis. My most sincere apologies. My thing is, a race needs to be long enough so that no one will forget to check it out or something. There seems to be some deficiencies in understanding priorities. American racing must think that all American people watch 3 or 4 hour NASCAR races for 36 weekends out of the year. Untrue! As I said before, you can't assume that everyone thinks the same way. What if a person likes sportscars over stock cars? How do you respond to that? Do you show here and there sportscar racing, then get back into ovals? Do you show rally racing and market it like it's the Knoxville Nationals? I'll admit. While I like the ALMS, sometimes, I can't take a 2hr 45min race. It doesn't mean that I hate the kind of racing, it's just that I admire the endurance of race car drivers that can endure the pressure. The Petit Le Mans is coming up, and that's 10 hours. Can I endure it? Yeah, if Speed Channel doesn't interrupt it with fake racing. I mean, Petit Le Mans is about every bit as entertaining as Le Mans. I think that other than the 12 Hours of Sebring, this is a good race on a wonderful race track. People, this is Road Atlanta in Braselton, GA, USA (as a weird fact, I didn't know there was a short track in this city, but I only care about Road Atlanta). You have to remember something about oval racing. If it rains and the race is televised live, we have to put up with it. It's no problem like when I'm watching pro or college football. I'll put up with it, like I did with the UNLV/Tennessee this past Sunday night. Races have to be long enough to be challenging. But at the same time, not so long so that things tend to get boring. Races can be shortened, but still has to be good for viewing. Short races make wanting to win more important. You want to win it in the end. Look at the IRL. They're doing it best. None of the races are excessively long. CART/Champ Car has decent-length races. And no offense to NASCAR fans, but who wants to watch races these long on Sundays and Saturdays. The other thing is that, with all the post race coverage, pre race coverage, national anthem, invocation, and all that... my goodness. American racing coverage is so prejudiced! An F1 race is of nice length with at least 90 minutes of racing.

I'll tackle cautions later.
 
Don't come crying to me when it comes to excessive cautions. They are easy to avoid. STOP WRECKING! Easier said than done, but it's true. When you have a stock car, you don't have to worry about banging into something and wasting money on special aero and body parts. If you bang into an Indy car and bang into the rear, you'll probably knock off the rear wing or one of the wing plates. You bang into a rear fender of a stock car, well, it's not a very nice sight even with that bump draft "technique." But math quiz:

rear wheels + front wheels (of another car) = ???

If you guess spinout, you're right. If the car ahead oversteers (I'm not saying "loose" or "trouble") and ends up into the wall, it's a caution. You can imagine what "The Big One" is like at Daytona or Talladega. Exciting television my ass. I'd rather see 16 cars zoom down the Mulsanne rather than 16 cars take themselves out in a perfectly avoidable race crash. I'm not saying that all drivers are pefect; it's just that if you're going to do high-speed racing, you don't have to treat other cars like you're a police car driver and you're trying to disable a criminal's car. For many people, it's easy to do oval racing by saying "don't wreck!" Thing is, how do you execute that? You'll want to do things so that the concentration is on racing and not banging into people. The only unavoidable cautions in my view, is inclement weather (remember the 2003 Surfer's Paradise race where it rained with hail on the track, and the Red Flag was displayed?).

But lessening cautions is easier said than done. People just don't ask for caution-free races. They happen because no one is trying to wreck or make careless mistakes or exhibit flagrant disrespect to other racers. So any commentary on lessening cautions or race length?
 
About your comment about rivers not being perfect, what about F1, 9/10 races 9/10 drivers will have an incident free race -- not to say perfect but they seem alot more perfect than IRL for example.

As for decresing cautions etc. do what F1 does, make safer tracks -- F1 has less crashouts than any other form of motorsport I know. But on the other hand this decreases overtaking, this brings up he point that overtaking is what often leads to crashes and therefore cautions. So really, do we WANT to decrease crashes AND decrease overtaking, the sponser sure as hell don't, the race organizers sure as hell don't, the avarage american fan sure as hell doesn't. I think the "excitement" that fans get out of overtaking and crashes far outways the want of driver safety. And I think it's sad that they are willing to put money ahead of the lives of those who actually provide the entertainment.
 
Even if they wreck you don't NEED cautions. We had an ECR race earlier this year with 60 or so starters, ended up with 13 pickups, 6 in turn one alone. Also had an ambulance now call in turn 1. Despite all this carnage, IT WAS GREEN THE WHOLE TIME.

ALMS brings out cautions without need too. A couple of years ago Christensen stuffed the Audi into the wall at turn 1, drivers left. Directly against the wall and the caution came out to get him, leave him there for god sakes. Nascar trips me out, a car will spin center track and slide down drivers left... never hit anything but they'll throw the caution.
 
On one end, Firestarter, I think NASCAR does this to alert other racers of other happenings on the track. When you have an oval race, you're going at high speed down the stretch and slow to more minimal speeds when in the corners. Along the way, if anything gets in the way, the caution will be thrown. It isn't like in road racing where you'll see local yellows, and good luck placing corner workers at a three or four turn oval. Either the drivers learn better during overtaking or we'll keep seeing long races all of us will have to put up with. If you read my "A New Low for [Traditional] American Racing?" topic, you'll know that the NCTS Race at... Gateway I think, ended up with four green/white checkers. How so? People want to overtake amd make drama. Heh. Not so dramatic if you have "wreck" as an intent.

As far as race length goes, here's a non-racing example. Yesterday on ESPN Classic, they showed a college football game between the Arkansas Razorbacks and the Ole Miss Rebels back in 2001. That game went into seven overtimes until the Razorbacks finally won 58-56. Stuff like football and basketball and such are okay going into overtime because anyone can still win. No one wants a tie. But when it comes to an auto race, if you've done 500 miles and end up with five green/white checker situations (not possible due to the new rules), it gets to be pretty dumb. With all due respect to motorsports, motorsports is not the NFL. It isn't NCAA Football or Basketball. It isn't NHL Hockey (there was a game that went into 12 overtimes in the 1930s, I believe). So while NASCAR wants to be like the NFL, all the while, how many people want to put up with such long races? I'll watch three hours of the Atlanta Falcons taking on the Pittsburgh Steelers, but I don't think the long race deal is working for NASCAR. Do like CASCAR with its abbreivated races. Save the longer races for those times. Aussie V8s do this every year with the Sandown 500 and the Bathurst 1000. So, when will oval racing get it right? Especially NASCAR?
 
Well as you said noone wants to see a tie, in the same respect noone wants to see a yellow flag finish, in every form of motorsport I follow they will make the last 2-3 laps green with almost no exceptions, if a car goes off there is so little time left in the race it's not usually considerred a big enough drama to warrent the yellows. So they should try to get thing cleaned up by the designated race end then jut let it be a free for all in the last laps (not to say make it dangerous).
 
Don't assume anything please and reread my post. There is nothing anywhere with me stating to place workers at certain places at Nascrap races. A car spins center track then slides down drivers left. If he gets to the bottom off banking, is off said banking then leave him there and let him try to get moving. If you gotta get him, then throw the caution. How many accidents are caused by the caution coming out and someone not seeing it therefore smashing into everyone checking up? They already do it when the caution wouldn't be conveniant, do it all the time.

GWC is absolutely dumb. I got a good way to stop races ending under yellow, STOP WRECKING AT THE END! I was watching Wind Tunnel and at the time in the truck series after doing it all these years only had a lead change on the GWC 12.5% of the time. Thats really low for the amount of equipment that gets torn up.

Problem with shortening Nascab races is they charge and arm and a leg for one day at those events. So of course people are going to get pissed if the race isn't long. Not to mention Nascar has a standing tradition of not letting anyone else race on the track same day prior to their races, so that would have to change.
 
Something I noticed when watching NASCAR races in that sometimes cautions get thrown unecessarily. A car might, say, spin on the exit of a corner, rotate through 360 degrees, keep going, and be up to speed within half a lap, yet a full-course yellow occurs. There's no danger, but it happens anyway.

The race length is fine if you just watch the highlights. Anything up to 2 hours is fine, after that I wait for the highlights. Le Mans is good, because the race is shown every few hours, so each broadcast feels like a small, individual race. The BTCC is good; the races are only 20 - 30 minutes long, but there are 3 of them, so you don't really get that mid-race stagnating period when everyoneis waiting to see what everyone else is doing for the final attack at the end.

It all makes sense to me, anyway.
 
The Sandown 500 is on this weekend and I will be sitting there and watching all three hours or so of it. The Bathurst 1000 is on next month and I won't be moving from that either. I will be watching all six to seven hours of it. I was at the Bathurst 24hr both times it has been held and apart from the four hours or so sleep at night I have watched every lap of both those races. I think it comes down to how interested you are in the form of motorsport in question. Even if it is an interesting race, if you don't like that event, you're not going to watch it.
 
Yeah, I sit down for two days straight (3 days if they show friday) watching motorsport during the Aussie F1 GP, Sandown, Bathurst, Surfers, it's just the person I am. I love to sit down and watch an ENTIRE event when I get the chance. Unfortunatly I won't be in the country when Bathurst is on:(

It'll be the first time I've missed it in AGES...
 

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