racing softs acting like comfort softs..

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HB Jones

HB Jones

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Boise, Idaho
Joined my regular group last night and racing softs were the tires of choice. When we started, everyone was sliding off track (same setup as last week...never a problem). I went back and changed my car to Sports softs and it handled great...everyone else did the same.
Would this be a problem with the 1.09 upgrade. It also happened with different cars/tracks.
Also noticed that every race starts with the cockpit view ??
 
HB Jones
Joined my regular group last night and racing softs were the tires of choice. When we started, everyone was sliding off track (same setup as last week...never a problem). I went back and changed my car to Sports softs and it handled great...everyone else did the same.
Would this be a problem with the 1.09 upgrade. It also happened with different cars/tracks.
Also noticed that every race starts with the cockpit view ??
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Define "sliding off the track". You mean at the limit you were at last week you slide off the track once in a while, or just running around at a comfortable speed you're going off on every corner?
 
It was like having comfort softs on all of the cars. We were racing the same track(s) as we were last week but, at almost every corner we lost traction...not at all like having racing softs..no grip until we switched to sports softs. This happened right after the 1.09 update. Strange. I'm going to mess around with camber as mentioned above and see if that makes a difference. We were driving GTR's, Toyota GT one's, and Subi's..
 
I don't know about GT6 (I tend not to use RS tires), but in real life racing tires tend to give a lot less "warning" before letting go when compared to street tires. It may (and note that I'm only saying may) be that the new tire modeling is reflecting that to some extent.
 
I didn't use racing soft tires for months (prefer racing hard), but gave them a try yesterday to see how much quicker I could go around Nurb 24h layout. The handling of the car (BMW Z4 GT3) was terrible in slow turns with these soft tires. So far the fastest lap time with hard racing tires was 08:40:xx. With the soft ones I wasn't able to do just one clean lap. :confused:
The fastest, invalid laptime was 08:30:xx (only ~10 sec quicker, WTF? )
The car oversteers suddenly in slow corners with a lot of steering input, like the first right-left combo after the finishing straight and Dunlop curve (GP circuit). It feels so weird and completely unrealistic, because it even happens when I'm not applying throttle. The car just rolls around the corner and suddenly turns in without reason. I have absolutely no problem with racing hard tires and therefore wonder how that could be? Is it my mistake (driving/setup) or is there something wrong with the game?
 
If racing tyres no longer have "Magic Grip", & have more progressive slip like they do in real life, I'd say that's a step forward. Strange how semi-slicks have more grip than full slicks though!
 
Chemenu
I didn't use racing soft tires for months (prefer racing hard), but gave them a try yesterday to see how much quicker I could go around Nurb 24h layout. The handling of the car (BMW Z4 GT3) was terrible in slow turns with these soft tires. So far the fastest lap time with hard racing tires was 08:40:xx. With the soft ones I wasn't able to do just one clean lap. :confused:
The fastest, invalid laptime was 08:30:xx (only ~10 sec quicker, WTF? )
The car oversteers suddenly in slow corners with a lot of steering input, like the first right-left combo after the finishing straight and Dunlop curve (GP circuit). It feels so weird and completely unrealistic, because it even happens when I'm not applying throttle. The car just rolls around the corner and suddenly turns in without reason. I have absolutely no problem with racing hard tires and therefore wonder how that could be? Is it my mistake (driving/setup) or is there something wrong with the game?
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I went out and tried the same thing. The Z4 GT3 is a lively car to begin with; it has a fair bit of lift-throttle oversteer so when you jump off the gas it really wants to rotate. Plus it has a decent amount of power, so if you're on the gas too hard it wants to rotate. It's a balancing act.

With RH tires my best lap was an 8:27.589. RS tires took that down to an 8:20.985.

In terms of feel, the car's overall balance didn't seem to change appreciably but the RS tires did feel as though they gave a bit less warning at the limit. Of course, I'm inclined to believe that RS tires should give a bit less warning, so it's entirely possible that my perception was just placebo. Still, I definitely didn't get the feeling that the car was worse in slow corners. I had a couple of situations where the extra speed in slower corners tricked me into getting on the throttle a bit too soon, but that was my fault, not the tires' fault.

All that said, it's worth noting that in 2011 the real-life Z4 GT3's best lap in the 24 hours of Nurburgring was an 8:41.889. Now, that was a race lap, not a qualifying lap, so a really good driver on a time trial lap should be able to better that slightly, but not by as much as I did and I'm not even a really good driver so even the RH tires are a bit more grippy than they ought to be.
 
Zenmervolt
I went out and tried the same thing. The Z4 GT3 is a lively car to begin with; it has a fair bit of lift-throttle oversteer so when you jump off the gas it really wants to rotate. Plus it has a decent amount of power, so if you're on the gas too hard it wants to rotate. It's a balancing act.

With RH tires my best lap was an 8:27.589. RS tires took that down to an 8:20.985.

In terms of feel, the car's overall balance didn't seem to change appreciably but the RS tires did feel as though they gave a bit less warning at the limit. Of course, I'm inclined to believe that RS tires should give a bit less warning, so it's entirely possible that my perception was just placebo. Still, I definitely didn't get the feeling that the car was worse in slow corners. I had a couple of situations where the extra speed in slower corners tricked me into getting on the throttle a bit too soon, but that was my fault, not the tires' fault.

All that said, it's worth noting that in 2011 the real-life Z4 GT3's best lap in the 24 hours of Nurburgring was an 8:41.889. Now, that was a race lap, not a qualifying lap, so a really good driver on a time trial lap should be able to better that slightly, but not by as much as I did and I'm not even a really good driver so even the RH tires are a bit more grippy than they ought to be.
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Well, you're clearly a better driver than I because after almost an hour combined between the two compounds, I was only able to muster 17 and 18 seconds above your respective lap times. Then again, I'm pretty inept through the Mullenbach section of the GP circuit and from Klostertal to Galgenkopf.
 
TexRex
Well, you're clearly a better driver than I because after almost an hour combined between the two compounds, I was only able to muster 17 and 18 seconds above your respective lap times. Then again, I'm pretty inept through the Mullenbach section of the GP circuit and from Klostertal to Galgenkopf.
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I always worry that posting the time will make it seem like I'm trying to brag, but I also think that having the lap times out there helps ensure that all the information is out there.

For example, if someone is running 10 minute laps with RH and improves to 9:50 laps with RS, that's an improvement of about 1.7%. If a person who was running 9 minute laps on RH got the same 1.7% improvement they'd only improve to 8:51 laps.

From autocross and some DE and classic racing, the general consensus seems to be that going from street tires to R-Compound tires is good for 1-2 seconds/min depending on the driver and the car. In other words, if you're running 1:00 laps on street tires and switch to the much stickier R-Compounds you should see lap times drop to somewhere between 0:58 and 0:59. If you're running 2:00 laps, you should see a drop to somewhere between 1:56 and 1:58. I don't know exactly how the street tire to R-Compound jump compares to the RH to RS jump, but given the relatively lengthy "flat-out" sections of the 'Ring picking up 10 seconds on an 8:40 lap seems about right to me, or, at least, it doesn't seem horribly wrong.
 
Zenmervolt
I always worry that posting the time will make it seem like I'm trying to brag, but I also think that having the lap times out there helps ensure that all the information is out there.
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That wasn't the case at all and I actually appreciated having a basis for comparison. In fact, it was more of a self-depricating response--hence the comment on my ineptitude.
Zenmervolt
From autocross and some DE and classic racing, the general consensus seems to be that going from street tires to R-Compound tires is good for 1-2 seconds/min depending on the driver and the car.
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I get the feeling I'll kick myself once I find out, but what is the 'DE' you refer to?
 
TexRex
That wasn't the case at all and I actually appreciated having a basis for comparison. In fact, it was more of a self-depricating response--hence the comment on my ineptitude.
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Cool. :cheers:

TexRex
I get the feeling I'll kick myself once I find out, but what is the 'DE' you refer to?
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Driver Education. Or Driving Event. Or just plain ol' "track day."
 
I know this a little bit old but I was searching through the forum to find anything relating to the 'feel' of RS tyres.

I was having a bit of a practice last night and trying out a few different tyre types including racing soft tyres. I don't often use them but I had occasionally strayed into GT5 rooms in the past where they were fairly common. They are clearly different in GT6 and I was starting to get really frustrated with them!

Firstly, I'm not the best driver but I'm usually pretty consistent and can quite happily string a set of laps together within a second or two of each other.

I was lapping Apricot Hill with a praiano-tune M3 CSL with sports soft tyres and it felt pretty good.

I know that racing soft tyres were "super magic" in GT5 that could achieve high levels of grip and appreciate that they have probably been adjusted to offer perhaps a more realistic interpretation, but I just couldn't get a "feel" of them.

I was losing grip in places where I didn't expect them to let go. For example, the slight crest before the awkward chicane before the last left hander - The tyres would spin-up and throw me off my desired entry. The re-adjustment was very tricky and it felt like the lateral grip didn't relate to the rotational grip when correcting (I've not explained that well, but it felt unnatural).

The sports soft tyres didn't appear to lose grip in the same place and generally felt a lot more natural.

I accept that different setups suit different tyres so I played around with the suspension and differential settings, I even went back to stock but nothing seemed to improve how the tyres were behaving.

I'm quite prepared to believe it's me and that I'm simply not good enough to have adapted to the racing soft tyres in GT6. However, I'm struggling to find a good "feeling" with them and it seemed quite difficult to hold a decent line around a lap with them on.

Has anyone else found this?

* Also worth mentioning I use a DS3, R2/L2 accelerate/brake, left stick for steering.
 
@pete2783 I went online last night and was using RS tires for the first time on my M3 GTR '03. It only has racing hard suspension and handles quite well with sports tires. Anyhow, the RS tires are very grippy. VERY VERY grippy. I was able to take corners at such high rates of speed that the entire outside of the car would lift from the track surface in high speed corners like Flugplatz, so much so that the car nearly rolled from the centrifugal force. Even lower speed corners like Bergwerk rubber would lift from the track surface, just not as dramatically. I'm going to upgrade to fully custom suspension and play with the tuning this weekend I hope. So after losing control on various corners and getting a feel for how the tires slip and what (I feel) seems to be happening I came to the following conclusion.

The RS tires provide so much grip that without the proper suspension stiffness, diff lock and camber/toe angles the dramatic body roll will frequently cause at least one of the drive wheels to leave the ground creating a point on which the car begins to rotate very quickly (obviously a bad thing.) In the case of our M3's and crests like the one on Apricot Hill the entire car will become almost weightless at the top of the crest. The tires being so grippy and the fact that you're cornering at the same time one of the rear tires has significantly more load, (which means way more grip) when the car comes back down so the car spins unless you lift just before the top of the crest. This can also be compensated for by decreasing the damper bound at the rear, increasing the damper rebound at the front, the stiffness of the rear anti-roll bar and reduce the acceleration lock since the rear shocks will then keep the tires in contact with the track surface and keep grip levels consistent across the back end the car the lower acceleration lock also allows for more slippage from left to right. By making the correct suspension changes you should be able to take that corner at a higher rate of speed and even possibly accelerate briefly towards the chicane at the bottom of the hill.

Tuning a car with racing tires is quite a bit different than sports or comfort tires, it's especially so for RS since the grip levels are ridiculously high. What seems to feel and sound sluggish and slow at first tends to be the quickest tune with racing tires. From my experience with tuning in GT2, GT3, GT4 and GT5 (I know the physics is different in GT6 but the principals are still the same) the fastest cars are the ones that don't make nearly as much tire squeel in the corners and hold the racing line with minimal effort.

Another thing I noticed is when accelerating from low speeds the car would lurch and shudder causing it to become unbalanced and I would lose control. This I put down to the fact that the RS tires are not magic (I drive with the x/square and dpad) you can spin them with too much accelerator despite being sooo grippy. When this happens there is momentary wheel spin but because they are sooo grippy they connect with the track surface with such force the car will shudder and lurch each time grip is lost and gained in that tire spinning incident.
 
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