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- Enzo_Guy
- GTP EnzoGuy
Obviously this isn't definitive, this is more a general location where people can share some tips and tricks they've picked up for creating Liege and Alaska tracks. I noticed if I want a truly good off-road course it takes significantly longer than a tarmac one would; there seems to be no middle ground between spectacular and boring. These are a few of my self-learned tricks I picked, I'd love to hear what you guys use!
First of all, a lot of my stuff is aimed more at guys starting out. The more experienced creators will have their own methods and probably disagree with me. The best way to start out is keeping it simple, to this day I'll prefer to work up a simple 3 or 4 sector track with low complexity versus 6 miles of fury. I've found through running online rally lobbies quite a bit that people respond better to these simple tracks and often really like them (and there isn't even much to them)!👍
LIEGE
Design Philosophy:
A good dirt track should have a high average speed, promote fast-paced sliding, and be kept simple; if it any time I do not feel like I'm about to die, your track is boring. Redundant corners, unnecessarily complex sectors, too little average speed, and not enough room to accelerate make for a dull Liege course. You don't need 90 corners, in fact I rarely use more than 40!
The Basics:
Liege is for patient perfectionists and dialing it in can test your sanity. The generator typically spits out 5 miles of generic 2nd gear corners and it can take lots of time, test laps, and intricate adjustments to make it worth racing. This location is also prone to the game redrawing the layout completely differently every time you change a value!
General Liege Tips:
-Go drive a Viper around a Tokyo Bay Kart track for 5 laps, is having 450hp and no room to floor much fun at all?
-Driving my 300hp WRC car at 40mph for 5 miles of 60 lturns that look identical is just as boring as the Viper on Tokyo Bay, your tracks need to have fast sections just like tarmac courses
-You want to create sections people can remember and learn by making them stand apart from the last one, that's when they're more likely to want to race on it
-I never do test laps with rally or 4WD cars, they either under steer or have too much grip and I don't get as much information as I'd like; instead I can typically be found testing in a 100hp/676kg '98 Mini Cooper, 350hp '69 Camaro Z28, 'stock 73 BMW 2002 Turbo, I like using RWD classics the most as they are usually easy to drive off-road stock and give the best track feel
-Don't be the "7 sectors of complexity 10" guy, be creative
-People like going going fast and getting sideways, there is a BIG difference between them with higher speeds being what you want
-Going sideways fast (above 50mph) through sweeping corners is almost always pleasing to just about any rally driver
-Low-speed slides through technical sections are alright when used sparingly, keep the banking down and don't go too sharp or else it just becomes tedious
-For generating my course layout, after I've set the desired complexity, I'll put all sectors to width 5, sharpness -5, and banking 0 to give me my baseline; from there I drive the track, move a value or two, repeat for quite a while
-Be aware my method isn't that quick, you spend a lot of time on the details and it takes work to really take things to the next level
Complexity/Layout:
I try to use as few sectors as possible (depending on how many transitions I want), I've found this keeps the game from constantly changing the whole on you as much, while that can be useful I kind of like my track to stay the way it is! DO NOT spend much time on tweaking the layout with complexity, eventually you're just polishing a turd and it's never going to be what you want. Pre-program the number of sectors and adjust the complexity based on where you want different technical and high-speed sections, then keep regenerating the whole thing until you get a good one; once you have one you may end up adjust a couple sectors by 1 or 2 clicks, anything else often ends in a headache.
General complexity tips:
-Avoid complexity 10 almost entirely, use 9 sparingly
-Complexity of sectors defines track length more than the number of sectors
-More sectors gives you less turns for each one and it becomes more difficult to keep close to the layout you originally had
-The more sectors you adjust for complexity, the higher your chance of the game regenerating something totally different
-An area of rapid elevation change doesn't need to have corners, a downhill straightaway can get speeds up in a short distance and really dial up the intensity going into the next sector; a couple S-curves done right can be awesome
-If you change a sector's complexity and the track suddenly generates something totally different I highly suggest looking at it before you just go back. Some of my best tracks started as a generated remake, instead of undoing the change I'd start fooling with other sectors here and there, next thing I know I've got a better track!
Road Width:
The bottom line is track width is often THE defining factor for a Liege track and seems to be an element that is rarely used to its potential. It directly affects total banking, cornering speed, corner sharpness, and the overall feel of a sector's complexity. Properly setting and varying the track width can turn a mediocre rally track into a spectacular one, it's your most useful tool for tweaking once you have your layout. A good course is going to have some variation in road width between sectors, although some shorter tracks can get by on a single width.
General track width tips:
-I'll usually start most sections at 5 and narrow the road slowly, you want the widest track that looks good and then you narrow it, bank it, and sharpen it from there
-I don't like starting in the middle values the game uses as defaults, I find myself in a constant loop of going up then back down and making more guesses than educated decisions
-Sliding is a big part of rally, the more room you have the faster you can go
-Wider sections have less banking overall and high values will need a good bit of banking to notice any effect, on the flip going narrower on the same banking value will actually make the banks on the track higher
-High banking sometimes creates large mid-corner bumps, I use these on occasion but I'll generally try to avoid them; if you like your banking then widening the road can help eliminate these bumps
-The width/banking combination are what will give your layout its personality, vary the values between sectors to bring it alive with noticeable changes and clearly defined sectors
-A sector change (blue dots) during a sharp blind corner is a great place to suddenly narrow the road
-Mostly straight high-speed sectors aren't always wide; doing 120mph on a narrow road can be intense and if you're going downhill even very slight S-curves become a white-knuckle ride!
-Quite often the gates marking sector changes create a wider portion of the track, I've seen this create a few unexpected changes that I liked
Corner Banking:
I think most every one knows what banking does, but making it work is very different. Banking is like your special effects package if you were directing a movie: some good tracks are a blockbuster without it, most tracks use a small amount few people know is there, some good tracks work well with big banking, and at the end of the day a bad track still sucks no matter how good the banking is. Banking should be used in conjunction with road width narrows the same value of banking translates to being higher on the track. It can be used for many purposes such as to adjust overall corner speeds, style corners, create intensity, make odd corners, make poor corners better, and more. A tight corner with too much banking becomes a tediously long 30mph slide that gets boring very quickly; the bumps do not help, during a wide 30mph slide they make the front end bounce, sometimes off the ground, and are very rarely desirable.
General banking tips:
-Start banking at 0 and work up, I go up by 1 or 2 every time
-If corners are becoming very slow and you're doing long slides below 40mph, decreasing the banking can get the corner speed back up and make it feel more exciting
-Narrow roads require more precise settings to eliminate slow sliding and sloppy bumps, these bumps make your front end bounce and at low speeds this does nothing entertaining but it can slow your down
-Banking should be balanced to the road width, narrower roads need less banking and are more easily ruined by using too much
-Banking is up to you for the most part: like special effects there can be too much or not enough, it can blend and flow naturally with the road, it can create an intense roller coast ride, just find that window that works for what your goal for the track is
-Sometimes I'll try to get some small bumps on 100mph or faster S-curve sections, sends intensity through the roof if you do it right!
Corner Sharpness:
The two major factors you can tune with corner sharpness are corner angles and, since sharpness can have some effect on banking, the intensity of those mid-corner bumps you'll likely come across. One of the less commonly needed tools of sharpness is certain values can be used to adjust the location of sectors changing, sometimes this can move that blue dot to a straightaway or drop it right in the middle of a corner. Moving the blue dots around is more advanced stuff and I'll do it if I'm looking to create some unique transitional corners. Generally I'd say sharpness is the finest increment of adjustment, although, depending on complexity and sector shape, it can make a fairly large difference on the corner angles or even bring two corners into a single sweeper.
General corner sharpness tips:
-Lowering the sharpness can help break up low-speed generic corners, getting sweepers in the right place can bump the average sector speed by a good amount
-The corner's angle can dictate the apex and speed, remember that too many sharp slow corners will eventually feel like you're turning left and right on the same two corners over and over again
-If you have two adjacent sectors with tight corners, varying the sharpness can really help set them apart
-I start every sector at -5 and go up slowly from there, take it slow and pay close attention or else you can quickly kill average speeds
I'll be posting some examples and maybe even a step-by-step guide or two. This is my own personal routine, it is slow and methodical, I'm willing to put in the time as the really good ones will be used in online lobbies with my other track designer friends. My routine may not be for everyone as it can usually take an hour or more for one track.
ALASKA
PENDING...IN PROGRESS AT THIS VERY MINUTE!
I'll try to push to get the Alaska one out tomorrow. All of these little nuances in my head are difficult to type and make sure I get my point across.👍
First of all, a lot of my stuff is aimed more at guys starting out. The more experienced creators will have their own methods and probably disagree with me. The best way to start out is keeping it simple, to this day I'll prefer to work up a simple 3 or 4 sector track with low complexity versus 6 miles of fury. I've found through running online rally lobbies quite a bit that people respond better to these simple tracks and often really like them (and there isn't even much to them)!👍
LIEGE
Design Philosophy:
A good dirt track should have a high average speed, promote fast-paced sliding, and be kept simple; if it any time I do not feel like I'm about to die, your track is boring. Redundant corners, unnecessarily complex sectors, too little average speed, and not enough room to accelerate make for a dull Liege course. You don't need 90 corners, in fact I rarely use more than 40!
The Basics:
Liege is for patient perfectionists and dialing it in can test your sanity. The generator typically spits out 5 miles of generic 2nd gear corners and it can take lots of time, test laps, and intricate adjustments to make it worth racing. This location is also prone to the game redrawing the layout completely differently every time you change a value!
General Liege Tips:
-Go drive a Viper around a Tokyo Bay Kart track for 5 laps, is having 450hp and no room to floor much fun at all?
-Driving my 300hp WRC car at 40mph for 5 miles of 60 lturns that look identical is just as boring as the Viper on Tokyo Bay, your tracks need to have fast sections just like tarmac courses
-You want to create sections people can remember and learn by making them stand apart from the last one, that's when they're more likely to want to race on it
-I never do test laps with rally or 4WD cars, they either under steer or have too much grip and I don't get as much information as I'd like; instead I can typically be found testing in a 100hp/676kg '98 Mini Cooper, 350hp '69 Camaro Z28, 'stock 73 BMW 2002 Turbo, I like using RWD classics the most as they are usually easy to drive off-road stock and give the best track feel
-Don't be the "7 sectors of complexity 10" guy, be creative
-People like going going fast and getting sideways, there is a BIG difference between them with higher speeds being what you want
-Going sideways fast (above 50mph) through sweeping corners is almost always pleasing to just about any rally driver
-Low-speed slides through technical sections are alright when used sparingly, keep the banking down and don't go too sharp or else it just becomes tedious
-For generating my course layout, after I've set the desired complexity, I'll put all sectors to width 5, sharpness -5, and banking 0 to give me my baseline; from there I drive the track, move a value or two, repeat for quite a while
-Be aware my method isn't that quick, you spend a lot of time on the details and it takes work to really take things to the next level
Complexity/Layout:
I try to use as few sectors as possible (depending on how many transitions I want), I've found this keeps the game from constantly changing the whole on you as much, while that can be useful I kind of like my track to stay the way it is! DO NOT spend much time on tweaking the layout with complexity, eventually you're just polishing a turd and it's never going to be what you want. Pre-program the number of sectors and adjust the complexity based on where you want different technical and high-speed sections, then keep regenerating the whole thing until you get a good one; once you have one you may end up adjust a couple sectors by 1 or 2 clicks, anything else often ends in a headache.
General complexity tips:
-Avoid complexity 10 almost entirely, use 9 sparingly
-Complexity of sectors defines track length more than the number of sectors
-More sectors gives you less turns for each one and it becomes more difficult to keep close to the layout you originally had
-The more sectors you adjust for complexity, the higher your chance of the game regenerating something totally different
-An area of rapid elevation change doesn't need to have corners, a downhill straightaway can get speeds up in a short distance and really dial up the intensity going into the next sector; a couple S-curves done right can be awesome
-If you change a sector's complexity and the track suddenly generates something totally different I highly suggest looking at it before you just go back. Some of my best tracks started as a generated remake, instead of undoing the change I'd start fooling with other sectors here and there, next thing I know I've got a better track!
Road Width:
The bottom line is track width is often THE defining factor for a Liege track and seems to be an element that is rarely used to its potential. It directly affects total banking, cornering speed, corner sharpness, and the overall feel of a sector's complexity. Properly setting and varying the track width can turn a mediocre rally track into a spectacular one, it's your most useful tool for tweaking once you have your layout. A good course is going to have some variation in road width between sectors, although some shorter tracks can get by on a single width.
General track width tips:
-I'll usually start most sections at 5 and narrow the road slowly, you want the widest track that looks good and then you narrow it, bank it, and sharpen it from there
-I don't like starting in the middle values the game uses as defaults, I find myself in a constant loop of going up then back down and making more guesses than educated decisions
-Sliding is a big part of rally, the more room you have the faster you can go
-Wider sections have less banking overall and high values will need a good bit of banking to notice any effect, on the flip going narrower on the same banking value will actually make the banks on the track higher
-High banking sometimes creates large mid-corner bumps, I use these on occasion but I'll generally try to avoid them; if you like your banking then widening the road can help eliminate these bumps
-The width/banking combination are what will give your layout its personality, vary the values between sectors to bring it alive with noticeable changes and clearly defined sectors
-A sector change (blue dots) during a sharp blind corner is a great place to suddenly narrow the road
-Mostly straight high-speed sectors aren't always wide; doing 120mph on a narrow road can be intense and if you're going downhill even very slight S-curves become a white-knuckle ride!
-Quite often the gates marking sector changes create a wider portion of the track, I've seen this create a few unexpected changes that I liked
Corner Banking:
I think most every one knows what banking does, but making it work is very different. Banking is like your special effects package if you were directing a movie: some good tracks are a blockbuster without it, most tracks use a small amount few people know is there, some good tracks work well with big banking, and at the end of the day a bad track still sucks no matter how good the banking is. Banking should be used in conjunction with road width narrows the same value of banking translates to being higher on the track. It can be used for many purposes such as to adjust overall corner speeds, style corners, create intensity, make odd corners, make poor corners better, and more. A tight corner with too much banking becomes a tediously long 30mph slide that gets boring very quickly; the bumps do not help, during a wide 30mph slide they make the front end bounce, sometimes off the ground, and are very rarely desirable.
General banking tips:
-Start banking at 0 and work up, I go up by 1 or 2 every time
-If corners are becoming very slow and you're doing long slides below 40mph, decreasing the banking can get the corner speed back up and make it feel more exciting
-Narrow roads require more precise settings to eliminate slow sliding and sloppy bumps, these bumps make your front end bounce and at low speeds this does nothing entertaining but it can slow your down
-Banking should be balanced to the road width, narrower roads need less banking and are more easily ruined by using too much
-Banking is up to you for the most part: like special effects there can be too much or not enough, it can blend and flow naturally with the road, it can create an intense roller coast ride, just find that window that works for what your goal for the track is
-Sometimes I'll try to get some small bumps on 100mph or faster S-curve sections, sends intensity through the roof if you do it right!
Corner Sharpness:
The two major factors you can tune with corner sharpness are corner angles and, since sharpness can have some effect on banking, the intensity of those mid-corner bumps you'll likely come across. One of the less commonly needed tools of sharpness is certain values can be used to adjust the location of sectors changing, sometimes this can move that blue dot to a straightaway or drop it right in the middle of a corner. Moving the blue dots around is more advanced stuff and I'll do it if I'm looking to create some unique transitional corners. Generally I'd say sharpness is the finest increment of adjustment, although, depending on complexity and sector shape, it can make a fairly large difference on the corner angles or even bring two corners into a single sweeper.
General corner sharpness tips:
-Lowering the sharpness can help break up low-speed generic corners, getting sweepers in the right place can bump the average sector speed by a good amount
-The corner's angle can dictate the apex and speed, remember that too many sharp slow corners will eventually feel like you're turning left and right on the same two corners over and over again
-If you have two adjacent sectors with tight corners, varying the sharpness can really help set them apart
-I start every sector at -5 and go up slowly from there, take it slow and pay close attention or else you can quickly kill average speeds
I'll be posting some examples and maybe even a step-by-step guide or two. This is my own personal routine, it is slow and methodical, I'm willing to put in the time as the really good ones will be used in online lobbies with my other track designer friends. My routine may not be for everyone as it can usually take an hour or more for one track.
ALASKA
PENDING...IN PROGRESS AT THIS VERY MINUTE!
I'll try to push to get the Alaska one out tomorrow. All of these little nuances in my head are difficult to type and make sure I get my point across.👍
