Real 'Ring time vs. GT6 'Ring time

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TheGeek

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Albania
Albania
Hello,
Although I am a member, I rarely log in, but I think this warrants a discussion.
I just purchased and lapped the 458 Italia on Nurburgring Nordschleife. I pulled a 7'20.364". The car is stock, no drivers aids, sports hard tires all around, manual shift. I used my battered but trusty Logitech Driving Force wheel. Out of curiosity, I checked the top lap times for this car on this track in real life (this website: https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/). The car is there, but the official lap time is 7'28.00" This makes no sense to me. I am by no means a race car driver (although I am a retired firefighter driver/operator), and so I just cannot see how I am so much faster than a professional driver in real life. My thought is I am driving a fake car in a game, and so I am more willing to drive the car more aggressively. If I stuff it, I just hit restart. Is that all there is to it? I pay attention to weight transfer, braking points/ distance, etc., and I never (ever) use any of the aids except ABS set to "1". I would like to read any thoughts regarding the realism presented in GT6, or in any other racing game. Thanks for reading!
 
Tyres mate, from what alot of people say on here the sports tyre range represent semi slick track day tyres, but I'm no expert :)
Try the comfort range for a more realistic sense of grip that you might get from road tyres & see what lap times you get.
Also do your TT in a private online room so you can turn tyre wear on normal for more grip realism & make sure grip levels are set to real not low in the track options before you start your lap.
 
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Mr Grumpy
Tyres mate, from what alot of people say on here the sports tyre range represent semi slick track day tyres, but I'm no expert :)
Try the comfort range for a more realistic sense of grip that you might get from road tyres & see what lap times you get.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Mr. Grumpy! I normally use to the comfort range on low-end FF cars, or on my Mazda RX-7 drift car. I will try as you suggest.
I enjoy feeling what a car drives like as it would if it were fresh from the factory floor. I have some cars which are tuned for hard racing, but the majority of my cars are untouched and equipped with whatever tires were on it when I bought it. As for the tires, my logic is that they represent some real-world counterpart. It is too bad the in-game labels are subjective; i.e., what is the threshold between Comfort Soft and Sports Hard?
 
the other major difference is the wild suspension setups that PD have for a "stock" car
they put huge amounts of toe-in on the rear, which makes the cars ultra stable, whereas a real 458 is going to be a twitchy car to drive due to the MR configuration.
ride heights and spring rates are wrong

Check out Ridox Replica Garage Tunes in the tune section.

I like most of my street cars to have a "replica" factory tune, aswell as a proper racing tune

I'd disagree that a 458 running around the ring would have comforts on it though.
it would have at a minimum, Ultra-High-Perfromance street tyres, like a Semi-slick "street" tyre

possible even a proper "R" Compound semi-slick that you'd use for serious track-days on a street car.
 
Also track temp and conditions would not have been perfect like they are in gt6, but 8 second difference on a 7+ minute track is realistic enough for me
 
Robbks
the other major difference is the wild suspension setups that PD have for a "stock" car
they put huge amounts of toe-in on the rear, which makes the cars ultra stable, whereas a real 458 is going to be a twitchy car to drive due to the MR configuration.
ride heights and spring rates are wrong

Check out Ridox Replica Garage Tunes in the tune section.

I like most of my street cars to have a "replica" factory tune, aswell as a proper racing tune

I'd disagree that a 458 running around the ring would have comforts on it though.
it would have at a minimum, Ultra-High-Perfromance street tyres, like a Semi-slick "street" tyre

possible even a proper "R" Compound semi-slick that you'd use for serious track-days on a street car.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Robbks, I will take a look at the Tunes you suggested.
I have noticed the strong toe-in angle, so I can definitely see where you are coming from on that. I'll bet that when I take a look at that setting tomorrow morning, I will see why that car is as stable as it is. I also compare my driving to that seen on BBC "Top Gear" when Clarkson and the The Stig lapped the 458. The tires one may car squealed when rounding turns to be sure, but Top Gear utterly ionized the tires on their laps. You are correct: The MR layout, coupled with the sheer amount of power it develops should make that car very nervous on that old, winding track. Thank you for your insight!
Jimmy Haight
Also track temp and conditions would not have been perfect like they are in gt6, but 8 second difference on a 7+ minute track is realistic enough for me
Click to expand...

Robbks
the other major difference is the wild suspension setups that PD have for a "stock" car
they put huge amounts of toe-in on the rear, which makes the cars ultra stable, whereas a real 458 is going to be a twitchy car to drive due to the MR configuration.
ride heights and spring rates are wrong

Check out Ridox Replica Garage Tunes in the tune section.

I like most of my street cars to have a "replica" factory tune, aswell as a proper racing tune

I'd disagree that a 458 running around the ring would have comforts on it though.
it would have at a minimum, Ultra-High-Perfromance street tyres, like a Semi-slick "street" tyre

possible even a proper "R" Compound semi-slick that you'd use for serious track-days on a street car.
Click to expand...
Jimmy Haight
Also track temp and conditions would not have been perfect like they are in gt6, but 8 second difference on a 7+ minute track is realistic enough for me
Click to expand...
Agreed. While I will never expect to set burning times on my hot lap in the rain, I do know that grip is at least partially attributed to temperature of the air which affects the temperature of the pavement. I appreciate your commentary!
 
TheGeek
Hello,
Although I am a member, I rarely log in, but I think this warrants a discussion.
I just purchased and lapped the 458 Italia on Nurburgring Nordschleife. I pulled a 7'20.364". The car is stock, no drivers aids, sports hard tires all around, manual shift. I used my battered but trusty Logitech Driving Force wheel. Out of curiosity, I checked the top lap times for this car on this track in real life (this website: https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/). The car is there, but the official lap time is 7'28.00" This makes no sense to me. I am by no means a race car driver (although I am a retired firefighter driver/operator), and so I just cannot see how I am so much faster than a professional driver in real life. My thought is I am driving a fake car in a game, and so I am more willing to drive the car more aggressively. If I stuff it, I just hit restart. Is that all there is to it? I pay attention to weight transfer, braking points/ distance, etc., and I never (ever) use any of the aids except ABS set to "1". I would like to read any thoughts regarding the realism presented in GT6, or in any other racing game. Thanks for reading!
Click to expand...
Try the stock 2007 GT-R with SH tires and try for the 7:29.03 time. This was a tough trophy challenge in GT5. Also Fastest Laps.com has good listings of real non race cars at tracks in the game such as Tsukuba and Willow Springs. Comfort Softs do seem better for duplicating times for sub 600PP cars.
 
Another often overlooked element is setting the track grip to 'Real' versus 'Low'. I'm almost always faster when the track is set to Low.
 
Just had a quick go on comfort softs.

100% stock (559pp) / track set to "real" / ABS: 1 only

2016-02-20 14.28.16.jpg


As you said, a driver in real life would never take as much risk as we do.
I tested this some time ago with the BMW M3 '07 on CS-tyres at Nürb GP/D and managed to get 1s faster than the real life lap record. So comfort soft vs. real life works fine.
 
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eran0004
The aerodynamic drag is too low, it makes quite a difference at high speeds.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is a big one. The 458 had a published top speed for the 2009 model of 199-201 mph. I had to detune mine to 425 HP at 524 PP with stock transmission to get a 201 aero-limited top speed. That works out to 0.24 drag coefficient, the real car is 0.33. When you bounce off the red line that's not real top speed so you have to depower until it just makes the top speed at redline, then all the other speeds up to 201 would be more correct also.

To find the proper HP setting for any car you can use SSRX ( or @eran0004 TPE straights) and adjust the HP downwards until the top speed on the back straight just meets the published values without cutting off at the redline. This takes a bit of trial and error.

The 425 HP Italia also does the correct ~ low 1:02 laps at Tsukuba.

I have contended PD has deliberately set low drag coefficients to give the punters ( ie us) a chance at low track times
 
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exactly,
so until you put those values into the suspension, it's never going to be accurate
 
TheGeek
Hello,
Although I am a member, I rarely log in, but I think this warrants a discussion.
I just purchased and lapped the 458 Italia on Nurburgring Nordschleife. I pulled a 7'20.364". The car is stock, no drivers aids, sports hard tires all around, manual shift. I used my battered but trusty Logitech Driving Force wheel. Out of curiosity, I checked the top lap times for this car on this track in real life (this website: https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/). The car is there, but the official lap time is 7'28.00" This makes no sense to me. I am by no means a race car driver (although I am a retired firefighter driver/operator), and so I just cannot see how I am so much faster than a professional driver in real life. My thought is I am driving a fake car in a game, and so I am more willing to drive the car more aggressively. If I stuff it, I just hit restart. Is that all there is to it? I pay attention to weight transfer, braking points/ distance, etc., and I never (ever) use any of the aids except ABS set to "1". I would like to read any thoughts regarding the realism presented in GT6, or in any other racing game. Thanks for reading!
Click to expand...

I have actually hired a race car and done 4 laps of the Nordschleife for real, 2 years ago, so my comments are based on personal experience.

The car I hired and what I practiced in with in GT6 which was the VW Scirocco (road car).

http://www.rentracecar.com/?p=124

The race car had soft semi slicks fitted and I used Comfort mediums in GT6 as I guessed that would be pretty close. The reason for choosing this car was it has a DSG gearbox with paddle shifters so it was like my PS3 wheel to use. A bonus since the steering wheel was on the wrong side of the car for me ;-)

I also recorded all the laps on my Go-Pro dash mounted camera so I could do comparisons and have these discussions.

The significant differences between real life and the game are:

1) The real curbs are monstrous in places and can/will damaged the car (I was warned to stay off them) so no curb cutting or straight-ling corners as we do in the game.

2) The barriers are so very close in places and the danger level is very high. In the game there is no fear of crashing. For real I had to put down a 7,000 Euro deposit on bringing the car back in one piece. A BIG incentive not to crash.

3) The game does not do justice to the elevation changes and so feels a lot different.

4) The real track is heavily forested and there were damp corners to contend with.

5) The game does not do bumps on the track. The real Karrousel is a goat track!!!

6) The game also does not do G forces on your body ;-)

7) GT6 does not do drag very well and there are ridiculous top speeds for cars.

So my advice to you is put Comfort Soft tyres on your 458, try again and this time stay off the curbs and don't exceed the stated top speed for the 458. I think you will now find your lap times to be more realistic ;-)

Lastly, why did I use the VW instead of a Porsche? Appart from the extra expense I wanted a car that I could drive to its near full potential and have fun. The Porsche would far exceed my abilities and the risk of crashing increase exponentially ;-) I would have gone for the GT86 except the gear stick, like the steering wheel, was on the wrong side and I don't drive with a stick in GT6 anyway.
 

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