realistic settings.

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So I just watched this video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5251107832911685010&q=drifting

I was noticing how much body roll and shifting of weight is involved in real life drifting, and in comparison with replays of GT4 drifting, I didn't notice much of it. So I figured if more weight was thrown to the side of the car, maybe things such has n tires wouldn't have to be used, because all they do is give you too much wheelspin in the first gears from a stopped position, and make your car slide too much when you dont want it to. Anyway, if for drift settings you didn't put the ride height so low, wouldn't that increase the effectiveness of the low spring rates? Im just guessing thats one way of getting more weight transfer, and also settings the stabilizers really low might do that. I need opinons from people who actually know specifically what each setting does, unlike me p:. I just think that there could be a few different ways to get the car to drift, but I'd like to get a really realistic feeling one.
 
...Dude, if you have a stiff suspension, have fun drifting, you need some soft suspension (correct me if all this is opposite or wrong guys/girls) There has to be body weight to shift the car around, if you don't lower your ride height in GT4 or change the spring rates, you'll see what I'm talking about, but 1/2 of those cars in the video are stock... 💡 that rings a bell for me...And 1/4 of that video shows just burnouts, donuts, and 1/4 of it is drifting, get a stock car in GT4, turn off your Driving Aids, when you're done drifting, watch the replay and see how much body roll there really is...
 
hideyourface
So I just watched this video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5251107832911685010&q=drifting

I was noticing how much body roll and shifting of weight is involved in real life drifting, and in comparison with replays of GT4 drifting, I didn't notice much of it.
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maybe with stock cars, but on cars with upgraded suspension componets, there is much less body roll, almost unnoticable.
go take a stock rx7 in gt4 and drift it, then go and watch the replay. you will see bodyroll. ive also got vids of numerous Formula D cars, watch closly and youll see they have minimial body roll.
So I figured if more weight was thrown to the side of the car, maybe things such has n tires wouldn't have to be used, because all they do is give you too much wheelspin in the first gears from a stopped position, and make your car slide too much when you dont want it to.
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if your spinning the tires from a stop, then let up the gas a little. thats just sloppy to see IMO and shows lack of proper car control. and if your drifting, then you should know how to control your car to make it do what you want. if you knew how, then it wouldnt "slide too much when you dont want it to" the more experience you get, the better you can control your drifts.
Anyway, if for drift settings you didn't put the ride height so low, wouldn't that increase the effectiveness of the low spring rates?
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well if your riding so low with soft ass springrates, then something is wrong with you. its just retarded not to either up the springrates while loweing the car, or raising the car with lower rates.
Im just guessing thats one way of getting more weight transfer, and also settings the stabilizers really low might do that.
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i 99% of the time set my stabilizers to 1/1 to let the suspension do its own thing. weight transfer will happen no matter if your dumped to the ground with track only springrates, or raisen to the sky with soft rates.
I need opinons from people who actually know specifically what each setting does, unlike me p:. I just think that there could be a few different ways to get the car to drift, but I'd like to get a really realistic feeling one.
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if you want to know how each setting affects the car, then read the information at the bottom of the screen on each setting.
ekmatt9
...Dude, if you have a stiff suspension, have fun drifting, you need some soft suspension (correct me if all this is opposite or wrong guys/girls) There has to be body weight to shift the car around, if you don't lower your ride height in GT4 or change the spring rates, you'll see what I'm talking about, but 1/2 of those cars in the video are stock... 💡 that rings a bell for me...And 1/4 of that video shows just burnouts, donuts, and 1/4 of it is drifting, get a stock car in GT4, turn off your Driving Aids, when you're done drifting, watch the replay and see how much body roll there really is...
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i use tons of diff springrates for diff cars. soft, mild, hard, i use them all. you dont need soft suspension to drift, infact most IRL drifters use stiff suspension. alot of drifters hate body roll. i rode in a 88 bimmer M3 at a drift event once, he was all stock, in the turns, felt like we were going to flip over. also rode in a 92 i think 240 coupe with sr swap, dumped, not sure what suspension he was running, but it was all fun. even though the m3 was a little scary at first, i would prefer stiff suspension over soft.
 
Mad Murphy NZ
The problem is, if your suspension is too stiff and the suspension has no travel it becomes very hard to control when you go over bumps.
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ive had no problems at all with bumps or getting a wheel or 2 in the air from a rumble strip middrift.
 
well heres how I see it. you, get low spring rates and raise the car's height, with low stabs to get maximum body roll. Im assuming loweinrg the boun will help too. I see a lot of settings and they all have low height, and most dont have low stabs, so, If I do all the things that I said, I hope to get way more weight transfer, making the car capable of sliding further, so I dont need to use crap tires to get the distance I want.
I dont like using those tires because I cant stand having to always hold the gas half down on the ds2 until i get to third gear or whatever, and it feels way less realistic becauase sometimes just turning slightly in a direction without the brakes or anything, I'll slide uncontrollably off the track.

edit:oh and how can you tell the cars in the video are stock >_> I have no idea.
 
Dude, take that Ford I believe, the lil Hatchback Coupe looking car, I have never seen a car that has that much body roll in it, therfore, I believe it's stock, the Evo doing burnouts and he almosts hits the guy, that has a little suspension upgrade to it, the EVO VII (Silver one), the Blue RX-7 FD, how can you not tell? That BMW M3...
 
This is for real cars but I think some of the stuff on this list u can apply to GT4


"Front spring rate increase:
More under steer; increase in proportional weight transfer to the front when rear wheel rate is not increased; reduces front traction when rear rate is not changed.
Usable adjustment: 150-600 lbs/in
Symptoms of too much adjustment: terminal under steer; front of car hops in corners; excessive wheel spin on inside front tire on FF cars.

Front spring rate decrease:
Less under steer; decreases proportional weight transfer to the front when rear wheel rate is not increased; increases front traction when rear rate is not changed.
Usable adjustment: 150-600 lbs/in
Symptoms of to much adjustment: Too much over steer; over steer then under steer if spring is so soft that the car bottoms out on lean, car bottoms out excessively with a jolting ride.

Rear spring rate increase:
More over steer; increase in proportional weight transfer to the rear when front wheel rate is not increased; increases rear traction when front rate is not changed.
Usable range: 100-600 lbs/in
Symptoms of too much adjustment: too much over steer; sidestep hop in corners; twitchy; pretty scary.

Rear spring rate decrease:
Less over steer: decreases proportional weight transfer to the rear when front wheel rate is not changed; increases rear traction when front rate is not changed
Usable range: 100-600 lbs/in
Symptoms of too much adjustment: car under steers; if way to soft car under steers then over steers as car bottoms out on lean; car bottoms out excessively with a jolting ride.

Front anti-roll bar stiffer: more under steer
Usable range: none to 1.25 inches in diameter
Symptoms of to much adjustment: terminal under steer; lifts inside front tire off the ground witch can cause massive wheel spin on FF cars; also not good for most effective tire usage as inside tire is now doing nothing.

Front anti-roll bar softer: less under steer
Usable range: none to 1.25 inches in diameter
Symptoms of to much adjustment: overstate scary; more like fun

Rear anti-roll bar stiffer: more over steer
Usable range: none to 1 inch in diameter
Symptoms of too much adjustment: Big-time over steer. Can cause inside rear tire to lift off the ground.

Rear anti-roll bar softer: less over steer
Usable range: none to 1 inch in diameter
Symptoms of to much adjustment: under steer; slow and boring

Front tire pressure higher: less under steer by reducing slip angels on most tires
Usable adjustment: up to 55psi hot
Symptoms of too much adjustment: no traction- tire crowned so more under steer; adds wheel spin in FF cars; jarring ride; center of tire wears out

Front tire pressure lower: more under steer by increasing slip angles on most tires
Usable adjustment: not less then 20psi
Symptoms of too much adjustment: edges of tire wear quickly because tire is folding over; feels mushy; tires chunk because low pressure means heat build up.

Rear tire pressure higher: less over steer by reducing slip angles on most tires
Usable range: up to 45psi hot
Symptoms of too much adjustment: no traction—tire is crowned so more over steer; bad wheel spin on FR cars; jarring ride; center of tire wears out.

Rear tire pressure lower: more over steer by incresing slip angles on most tires.
Usable range: not less then 20psi
Symptoms of too much adjustment: edges of tire wear quickly because tire is folding over; feels mushy; tires chunk because low pressure means heat build up

More negative camber front: less under steer because of better lateral traction as tread is flatter on the ground under side load.
Usable range: up to 3.5 degrees negative
Symptoms of too much adjustment: poor braking; car is road crown sensitive; twitchy; front tires wear on inside edge

More negative camber rear: less over steer because of better lateral traction as tread is flatter on the ground under side load. More rear grip
Usable range: up to 2.5 degrees negative
Symptoms of too much adjustment: more over steer; car feels twitchy in back; tires wear out on inside edge; less breakaway warning when limit is exceeded.

Ride height to low (typical beginner mistake): car is twitchy with unpredictable dynamics. Bump steer make you life miserable.
Usable range: usually 1.5-2.0 inches lower then stock unless car has been modified to go lower.
Symptoms of too much adjustment: everything that could possibly go wrong: sudden over/under steer; twitchy due to bump steer; very harsh ride; premature tire wear.

Toe in – front: car is stable going straight. Turn in is average
Usable range: 0-1/8th inch
Symptoms of too much adjustment: car has slow twitchiness under braking; feels odd; kills outside edge of tires

Toe out – front: Car turns in well; works pretty well on FF car as they tend to toe-in under load.
Usable range: 0-1/4 inch
Symptoms of too much adjustment: Car is really twitchy under braking; car wanders on straight road; kills inside edge of tire

Toe in – rear: car is less likely to over steer when the throttle is lifted
Usable range: 0-1/8th inch
Symptoms of too much adjustment: weird, slow, rocking movement in back; feels slow but still unstable; wears outside edge of tires.

Toe out – rear: Helps car rotate useful in low speed and slalom courses; very common on FF pro rally cars.
Usable range: 0-1/8th inch
Symptoms of too much adjustment: not to good for street driving; causes lift throttle over steer; makes violent side to side rocking motions in the rear; tie wears on inside more.

Positive front caster: helps stability; suspension will get more negative camber when turning; reducing positive caster reduces steering effort. (Negative caster is not usable)
Usable range: 4-9 degrees positive
Symptoms of too much adjustment: can increase under steer especially in cars with wide low-profile tires. Can increase steering effort.

Single adjustable shock stiffer: Better turn in; better transient response; causes slower onset of over/under steer by slowing weight transfer depending on what end of the car is adjusted.
Symptoms of too much adjustment: suspension becomes unresponsive; ride gets harsh; car skips over bumps, loosing traction; Causes a big delay in weight transfer resulting in strange handling like under steer then late corner stage over steer.

Single adjustable shock softer: slower transient response; quicker onset of over/under steer
Symptoms of too much adjustment: car oscillates due to under dampened spring motion, like a boat. Car gets twitchy in turns. Feels unstable.




Have fun tuning your suspention. Use Toe and Camber to your advantage"

More Tips here
http://www.se-r.net/car_info/suspension_tuning.html
 
Realistic settings? Read my post history.

Most of the cars in that video are probably stock.

Some pro level drift cars have a little roll, but this is tuned with the dampers not with the spring rate/roll bars.
 
well I tried stock with my 85' fc, and I put some downforce and brake balance on the front, and I think I liked it almost more than my other settings. With stock I think the car is less jumpy and goes through turns a lot smoother. Also, its funner to see the car's weight shifting all over the place while driving, and while watching the replay. At least it is for me. Im going to try drifting some more stock cars.
 
This was one nice video. Well about this drifting style, GT4 isn't realistic enough yet but I do notice some of this weight shifting with some mercs and stock cars. AWD cars in GT4 aren't this far yet, like the audi station you saw in the beginning making a donut. That was some crazy weight shifting, and the lancer evo, the red one.

IMO this is why feinting is the coolest drift method, cause I dont prefer smoothness but just force and well...weight shift really shows the car's behavior and stuff.

So go away smooth and enter the fight with weight shifting!!👍 You should control it like it's a fight, thats one way to get real cool replays:tup::sly:

^^ALL IMO^^

Edit: Now we're at the settings again, drift settings are all nice and all, but just 3 weeks ago I went to the tuning forums and read every sticky and some recent topics and damn this lets you learn far more from GT4 settings than this drift forum does:tup:

I really advice you to go look there. Things like toe and stablizers and brake balance are explained again in the racing point of view. You learn alot from there.

Some tip for example, some positive toe on the front of a drift car might help turn-in oversteer if you brake. read M-Specs sticky in the tuning forums for that!
 
It has all to do with GT4's realism and realistic weight shift settings.
And it's boring to move everything to other forums, this forum is already very dead, now dont make it worse cause I kinda like this thread:dopey:
 
G-T-4-Fan
It has all to do with GT4's realism and realistic weight shift settings.
And it's boring to move everything to other forums, this forum is already very dead, now dont make it worse cause I kinda like this thread:dopey:
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lol I know what you mean, Im enjoying it to but I know sometimes rules have to be broken.ill retract my complaining then
 
hideyourface
can someone give me settings for an 85' rx-7 fc,j with stock suspension and sports tires? I want to compare them to mine.
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you can find PLENTY of settings in the drift settings depot. check there. then if you dont find what you need, PM tank...errr boundarylayer with what you would like. and please include if you want ASM/TCS on or off.
 
I think next to nobody uses stock suspension and sports tires p:

here are my settings:
buy exhaust and turbo and stuff to get hp to max. all weight reduction and drivtrain stuff(2 way lsd and full custom trans) then soft sports front and medium sports mid.
I was in SS stage and this car drifts awesome, and after watching the drift bible I think it has more realistic feel to it too. I think mixing tires is only bad when you have tight suspension which causes it to be really jumpy. I suggest trying this car out.
 
my car is extremely stable. I cant find anything wrong with it, and I think it's the most enjoyable car to drift that I have used. The hard tires keep it stable and in the driver's control while still being able to hold longer drifts bcause of it's hp. I really like forcing the drifts with the loose suspension rather than adjusting the springs. The springs seem to make everything jumpy and too rigid. The also cause me to oversteer too much and spin out more than my car Im using right now.
 
That's mean you didn't tune your car right if it oversteers on you. Buy the Full LSD and raise the decel a little to like 13
 
Well, with a car like the AE86, which lacks front heaviness, I make it soft in the front and hard in the back, to kind of help the car to "ride" on the front wheels instead of the rears.
 
G-T-4-Fan
Now we're at the settings again, drift settings are all nice and all, but just 3 weeks ago I went to the tuning forums and read every sticky and some recent topics and damn this lets you learn far more from GT4 settings than this drift forum does:tup:
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The only problem with the tuning forum stickies is that they deal with real life, and a lot of those theories can be more or less discarded for GT4.. and the discussions about toe values is hardly conclusive ;) There's a lot of big words and complex theories to back up the conclusions over there, but again, they use real life tuning as reference.. and that's why I don't trust them at all. While some cars drift perfectly with realistic settings in GT4, those cars will also be great with totally random settings... examples: M3 CSL, RX7 FD. I tried setting up an M3 totally weird (spring rates 15/5 or 5/15 with all variations of extreme dampers), and it just didn't affect handling much at all. The only time I really felt change was when I set the springs back to default, or used ballast to try and make it 50/50 (based on the default spring rates) with equal spring rates.

Suspension settings certainly won't affect weight shifting in the way you'd think (at least not front-rear). I don't know a whole lot about setting up cars IRL, so I think I have less prejudice when it comes to setting up cars in GT4.

Ride height and stabilizers are pretty relevant, if not for the over/understeer balance, then certainly for the general feel of the car. I seem to prefer pretty high ride heights cause it does make the car settle better when sideways. I wouldn't exactly call it 'grippier', the car will slide just as easily, but (at least I imagine this) it generally makes the cars more maneuverable (sp) and responsive while sideways.

All in all, not a very informative post.. but I'm discussing, innit? :crazy:
 
Haha, no it's a nice post. But basically, for example the toe thing wich I didn't know a clue of before is pretty handy if you put it positive in front.

It will change the front tyres to this / \ Every tyre is pointing inwards. Imagine if you want to brake-drift into a right hand turn. You will first shift the weight to the front when braking and then when turning right, shift the weight to the left front tyre and after the drift is initiated the weight will be transferred to the REAR because of acceleration during the drift.

Since this tyre already is turned to the right a bit, it will increase cornering abilities, turning in. Dont worry about the left tyre cause there's no weight on it at all and doesn't have as much grip as the left one.

I dont know if this isn't simulated in GT4 or if it is. At least I would think they would not put TOE ingame for nothing? It's gotta work well then.

All I'm saying is I learned that front toe DOES come in handy, in theory. But I always learned it doesn't effect drifting very much.

Edit: Plus my final point, I think there's alot more to find out still...
 
yah.. the big issue is however: is toe OUT or IN positive on the slider in the PAL version of the game? ;)

I actually found the DSJ project evo to be less understeery with negative toe up front.. but I've always lived by the opposite even though I can't really prove it to work... I guess it's subtle at best.. and probably best left alone.. for me, at least
 
The settings of the suspension doesn't have anything to do with how much weight is being transfered. A car's weight will still go to the front while braking no matter what suspension settings you use. In fact, a stiffer suspension helps with weight transfer because the weight goes to the wheels instead of getting absorbed into the shocks. (I read that somewhere)
 
I read that race cars use stiffer suspension so less weight gets transfered, and a more even amount of weight is distributed over the tires. And if the car has susper stiff suspension, it'd be like a block on wheels, and if it was very low (like race cars) I dont see how much weight could shift at all. I think suspension and the height of the car has everything to do with weight transfer.

edit: while braking, weight only moves to the front because the car tilt downs from the suspension.
 

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