Rear camber on Live axle

[Mt. Lynx]

I´m with R J on this one. If GT4 didn´t model tyre roll, then what good would camber be?
Now, I´m not that accustomed to tuning roadcars (well, subjective I guess), especially ´60´s or ´70´s models, (where you´re most likely to find live axles), since I like them better stock, so I can´t actually say that the live axle stays during the tuning process. But I can´t say the opposite either, but at the same time, there´s no denying that even live axle cars benefits from rear camber in GT4, unless they´re made exclusively for dragracing.

Oh, and R J, camber is pretty complex, and many cars benefit from a higher rear camber than front camber, such as RR cars, and many FF cars also seem to behave better with more rear than front camber.

 

[CirclesCenter]

You know I never even thought of how much unsprung weight a live axle had. I mean it's totally obvious, but just not something that ever even crossed my mind.

 

[Rockit]

its not in the public eye really so it's not surprising it wouldn't cross your mind. but yes when i thought about it i wanted to sell my real lif trans am and buy an s14.

By tire roll do you guys mean the literal rolling of the tire on the rim, i.e. the reason we run lower profile tires is to reduce the movement of the tire on the rim and stabilize the contact patch? or do you mean the rotation of the wheel and the tire as the body rolls changing the suspension geometry? I don't think gt models the tire on the rim, i know it models the body roll and subsequent change in camber associated with it.

Assuming both tires are on the ground in a live axle car and there is zero movement of the tire independent of the rim, show me how camber helps a live axle car put more tire to the road in a turn. If the axle doesnt bend and both tires touch the ground parallel to each other, all you're doing by adding camber is reducing contact patch as the tire pinch closer together at the top and farther apart at the bottom at ALL times. it's mot like the camber suddenly becomes positive for the inside tire, it remains tipped in putin less rubber on the road. Perhaps, rj your couger was undertseering because of the boat anchor in the engine compartment, and the slight oversteer caused by the camber let you balance the car a tad, very very tiny drift.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Actually, it was less tailhappy.

 

[Rockit]

you didn't answer the rest of it, do you think that gt models tires moving on the rims of the car?

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Yes, as a matter of fact.

Otherwise, zero camber would be optimum.

'Nother thing: If the nose in a live-axle car is softer than the rear, the nose will roll more, as it would in any car.

Now... If the chassis is reasonably stiff, that entire rear axle is going to try to roll with the body. Which means, even if GT doesn't model sidewall roll/flex, camber on a live axle will still be beneficial.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Ehm, am I missing something here, or is everyone else? To adjust camber (or toe) you have to buy a suspension. That purchase seems to make sure that you are able to adjust the things you want, thus if it was a live axle to begin with, maybe that changes when you buy a new suspension?
Just my 2 cents...

This thread is an attempt to re-create a real-life condition in the game...something Polyphony Digital screwed up.

In most cases, cars with live rear axles won't get an independent rear in real-life. It's too expensive. Take the new Mustangs for instance. They're all over the place in drift competitions, and many have upgraded, beefier parts, so why aren't they getting independent rear suspensions like they would in the game? So this thread is for those of us who realize this discrephancy and are trying for a bit of realism. I myself have followed suit and now any car with a LRA remains so in my game...no rear camber...no rear toe.

Of course, it is possible to add camber and toe to a live rear in the game. It will enhance your cornering for better or worse. The question is: is it realisitic??? We can't modify these traits in real-life. The fact that we can do so in the game adds something that doesn't compute in real-life. PD, who are supposed to be so emphatic about GT being the "Real Driving Simulator" has dropped the ball here 4 games in a row...starting with the Camaro Z/28 and '67 Stingray in GT1.

That's what this thread is getting at...

 

[Rotary Junkie]

We can't modify these traits in real-life. The fact that we can do so in the game adds something that doesn't compute in real-life.

Actually, we can. And do.

It's fully possible to add about a degree to a degree and a half of camber to a live axle in real life.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Actually, we can. And do.

It's fully possible to add about a degree to a degree and a half of camber to a live axle in real life.

....at great expense that is not reflected in the game. This is assuming that when i buy a sports, semi-racing, or full-custom suspension, what i'm buying are the parts associated with these package upgrades, not an actual service that modifies a live axle to one that is no longer completely straight-across.

I mean, to add camber and/or toe to a live axle, we're talking about removing the axle altogether and replacing or modifying it with one that includes u-joints, right? When you buy a sports suspesion for $3,100 (for instance) what you're paying for are shocks, beefier springs, and replacements for these parts over the long run....nowhere does Polyphony Digital ever say "and your live axle will be highly modified or replaced..." On that note, is the associated hardware (bearings, pins, etc) also replaced with these upgrades? Does the live axle housing stay stock, or is it also replaced as it would need to be with modifications?

Maybe i'm getting too anal here.

 

[Rockit]

actually, the original question was whether gt4 treats live axle as it is in real life, i have to say my opinion is that the game does indeed treat IRS and live axle cars diferently. to 99.9 percent of players it makes no difference and the benefits of camber seems to be the remaining point of argument.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

....at great expense that is not reflected in the game. This is assuming that when i buy a sports, semi-racing, or full-custom suspension, what i'm buying are the parts associated with these package upgrades, not an actual service that modifies a live axle to one that is no longer completely straight-across.

See... There's the rub. For 17 grand, I had better have been given a couple different rear axles with different camber angles.

For three grand, I'd still want a few cheap rears lying around if it's just a set of adjustable shocks (basically).

Seven grand and the case worsens.