Rear Wings

[Aquarelle]

Kia ora guys.

I don't often stroll down here but I have a question that I'm not sure how to word for google

It revolves around Wings (Though I'd imagine you figured that out from the title) or more specifically, the struts attaching the wing to the car.

My question is simple, I'm looking at getting a wing and I want to know which is seen as the superior 'style', centred struts or having them as close to the edge of the boot/trunk as possible.

I'm probably going to answer my own question here but I would think that having centred struts would make the edges of the wings flex more (Which I would imagine is a bad thing since it would cause instability) but I'm still learning about aerodynamics and the science behind it unfortunately.

 

[Monatsende]

Not a big help but some use them as a bar to put their glass of beer on it. So they are looking for stable and perfectly horizontal wings.

Your car has enough power that additional downforce would help?

 

[Aquarelle]

Your car has enough power that additional downforce would help?

That's debatable, most people would say 280 BHP (Rough stab, I haven't taken it to a dynometer so I'm merely guessing based on the modifications made and how it feels) isn't enough to warrant a wing but it gets a little quirky in high speed corners, I'd like the extra traction.

It's a light weight MR2 so that amount of horse power is still nippy. Also something rather heavy fell on the stock spoiler so I want to replace it anyhow.

 

[Monatsende]

It`s this model?

 

[Aquarelle]

It`s this model?

Yep, with the SW20. I have the same T-bone roof as well (Seriously great during summer, but I digress)

The left-center area of that wing is pretty damaged so it could be disturbing the air flow enough to be causing the instability.

I've been debating taking it off and testing my theory but if I'm going that far I may as well replace it (I like keeping my car as stock as possible externally but I can't find another stock spoiler for it without buying a whole car for parts and I don't have the space for it.. so I'm thinking aftermarket)

 

[Monatsende]

To be honest: stock wing suits best for IMAO.

You want stuff like this?

Because it`s moving towards TheFastAndTheFurious-thingy...


Maybe...

Nice plate.

 

[Aquarelle]

To be honest: stock wing suits best for IMAO.

You want stuff like this?

Because it`s moving towards TheFastAndTheFurious-thingy...

No no, I don't like extravagant things like that.

I'm looking for a subtle wing, uhhh sort of like this: *initiate google mode to find a model*

With the struts raising it to slightly above the stock level.

Edit: That second one is rather nice actually, where did you find that?

 

[Zenith]

Are you trying to make it fast or are you trying to make it look fast?

 

[Aquarelle]

Are you trying to make it fast or are you trying to make it look fast?

Seriously...?

I.. Did you read anything I've said so far..?

No. I'm not trying to make it "Look fast".
I'm genuinely worried by the rear instability at high speed (In a safe and controlled manner and environment) and want to reduce the instability by replacing a damaged wing and improving the rear downforce.

The power has been increased but it still has the standard (And rather dated) shocks and springs, which isn't helping. Unfortunately I can't afford to replace the suspension for now and I'd like to replace the damaged wing first regardless because it makes me look like I don't care about my car.

 

[Monatsende]

[...]

Edit: That second one is rather nice actually, where did you find that?

Ähm, googled "mr2 lightweight wing" - scrolling down a bit.

http://www.mr2.com/forums/mk-2-part...-wing-16-ssr-integral-a2-perfect-fitment.html


Maybe you`ll find more there... 👍

 

[Aquarelle]

Ähm, googled "mr2 lightweight wing" - scrolling down a bit.

http://www.mr2.com/forums/mk-2-part...-wing-16-ssr-integral-a2-perfect-fitment.html


Maybe you`ll find more there... 👍

810 (I presume american) dollars hm? That's harsh Guess that's the price of subtlety.. but definitely an option, a bit cheaper than some of the other wings I was looking at.

Really like the subtlety of it and it looks like it produces more downforce than the stock wing.

 

[Monatsende]

810 (I presume american) dollars hm? That's harsh but definitely an option, a fair bit cheaper than some of the other wings I was looking at.

Really like the subtlety of it and it looks like it produces more downforce than the stock wing.

Well, that`s the end of 2010 price. It might be cheaper or more expensive now. <- Hell, this statement is 100% true.
I mean, price might have changed.

 

[Aquarelle]

Well, that`s the end of 2010 price. It might be cheaper or more expensive now. <- Hell, this statement is 100% true.
I mean, price might have changed.

Yeah, that's true

I can't find any for sale at the moment in New Zealand.. this was the closest I could find and it's not really what I'm after

If I were to throw subtlety out the window like that I'd rather go for a strut wing (I'm just inventing terms here because I don't know the correct one )

 

[Monatsende]

Yeah, that's true

I can't find any for sale at the moment in New Zealand.. this was the closest I could find and it's not really what I'm after

Nope, it looks like

 

[Aquarelle]

Nope, it looks like

Gotta go fast!

 

[nobuffalo]

If you were "genuinely worried by the rear instability at high speed" you would save up the little extra and replace your struts first, getting a spoiler first sounds silly. What condition are your tires in?

Unfortunately I can't afford to replace the suspension for now and I'd like to replace the damaged wing first regardless because it makes me look like I don't care about my car.

You just seem to be making excuses because you really want a new spoiler. Bad struts are visible from outside of the car (although probably not to most) and if you want people to think you care about your car you'd replace those first.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

Replace the spoiler with an OEM item. Going aftermarket, from the looks of things, is going to be an expensive undertaking and considering you're thinking US$800 is expensive it's not going to be one that's worth it. I agree, $800 is expensive for something that's probably not actually going to cure the problem you're having.

Go OEM, save the cash, and use it to fix the suspension on the MR2.

 

[Aquarelle]

If you were "genuinely worried by the rear instability at high speed" you would save up the little extra and replace your struts first, getting a spoiler first sounds silly. What condition are your tires in?

Yeah I see where you're coming from, I've been struggling with the condition of the suspension for a while but I'm still studying, finances are limited.
My tyres are fine as they're only 2 months old

You just seem to be making excuses because you really want a new spoiler. Bad struts are visible from outside of the car (although probably not to most) and if you want people to think you care about your car you'd replace those first.

Does it really seem that way? I'm reluctant to change the outside looks from stock but like I said my knowledge on aerodynamics is minimal at best so I'm not sure how much effect the spoiler will be having.
My mechanical knowledge is still mostly limited to the engine bay so far =/

The damaged spoiler makes me feel bad for my car which is why I'd like to replace it, though I agree that repairing the suspension is a better (though more expensive) option rather than covering up the problem with higher downforce..

I guess I have some thinking to do in that regard.

I'd hate for anyone to think I'm arrogant or ignoring people because I think I know best, I genuinely want advice on this stuff and I really am listening.

Replace the spoiler with an OEM item. Going aftermarket, from the looks of things, is going to be an expensive undertaking and considering you're thinking US$800 is expensive it's not going to be one that's worth it. I agree, $800 is expensive for something that's probably not actually going to cure the problem you're having.

Go OEM, save the cash, and use it to fix the suspension on the MR2.

Yeah I was looking at the OEM spoilers actually, getting something like that would leave me with enough to get on my way to repairing the suspension as well without a large gap between the two projects.

810 USD is around 1000 NZD, I'd be more okay with the $810 price tag

 

[nobuffalo]

Yeah I see where you're coming from, I've been struggling with the condition of the suspension for a while but I'm still studying, finances are limited.
My tyres are fine as they're only 2 months old

Like I say below struts alone could solve your problem and may be cheaper than you think, if you can do the work yourself. Have you priced them yet?

Does it really seem that way? I'm reluctant to change the outside looks from stock but like I said my knowledge on aerodynamics is minimal at best so I'm not sure how much effect the spoiler will be having.
My mechanical knowledge is still mostly limited to the engine bay so far =/

It does and that's fine with me if you prefer to spend your money on looks rather than performance/safety (not being sarcastic), but you should be aware.

The damaged spoiler makes me feel bad for my car which is why I'd like to replace it, though I agree that repairing the suspension is a better (though more expensive) option rather than covering up the problem with higher downforce..

Higher downforce may not cover up the problem (if it is your suspension) but could make it worse. I really don't know, I'm not knowledgable in that area either. Also, you may not need to change the springs or bushings or anything else at the moment, struts themselves may solve the problem and may cut down what you think it could cost.

 

[Punknoodle]

Lets just put this simply. Here is a simple flow chart of the importance of your pretty close to aesthetic only spoiler vs other components in regards to your 'high speed instability'..

Tires --> Suspension (components, alignment etc) --> Driver --> Conditions --> Colour of Car --> Rear Spoiler

Realistically at your level I would go with OEM to tidy it up, but only after you have sorted the brakes and suspension..

 

[Luminis]

Now I don't know how much downforce such a spoiler would provide, but this is the sort of thing I like the most on a SW20:

Doesn't look too obnoxious, there are no struts to break

 

[Monatsende]

It`s a hybrid.

 

[Aquarelle]

Like I say below struts alone could solve your problem and may be cheaper than you think, if you can do the work yourself. Have you priced them yet?

I can definitely do the work myself, while my my extensive knowledge is still in the engine bay for now (I have a lot to learn still, as much as I hate to admit it I'm still young) I can still work on things like brakes and suspension etc.

It does and that's fine with me if you prefer to spend your money on looks rather than performance/safety (not being sarcastic), but you should be aware.

Well the hope was that the replaced wing would kill two birds with one stone, I wouldn't normally put aesthetics over performance.

Higher downforce may not cover up the problem (if it is your suspension) but could make it worse. I really don't know, I'm not knowledgable in that area either. Also, you may not need to change the springs or bushings or anything else at the moment, struts themselves may solve the problem and may cut down what you think it could cost.

Hmm.. okay I'll look into replacing the struts, I was hoping to save up and go all out on the suspension with these and do the whole lot in one go. Looks like I'll just have to do it bit by bit.

Lets just put this simply. Here is a simple flow chart of the importance of your pretty close to aesthetic only spoiler vs other components in regards to your 'high speed instability'..

Tires --> Suspension (components, alignment etc) --> Driver --> Conditions --> Colour of Car --> Rear Spoiler

Realistically at your level I would go with OEM to tidy it up, but only after you have sorted the brakes and suspension..

I was under the impression from things like Hot Version that wings played a massive role in corner stability. Again, I'm uneducated in the subject but not willingly.

Now I don't know how much downforce such a spoiler would provide, but this is the sort of thing I like the most on a SW20:

Doesn't look too obnoxious, there are no struts to break

That doesn't look to bad honestly, though my concern wasn't about the wing struts breaking. My concern was whether having the wings with centred struts would cause more flexing at the ends than if the struts were wider apart and if there was any significant difference between the two techniques of attaching the wing.

 

[nobuffalo]

Ebay has a few different OEM styles for around $100, shipping looks like it would be nasty though.

Hmm.. okay I'll look into replacing the struts, I was hoping to save up and go all out on the suspension with these and do the whole lot in one go. Looks like I'll just have to do it bit by bit.

You could replace your spoiler and while you're saving up adjust your driving to suit your dated suspension, I'll probably get flak for making a comment like that. I'm not one to preach anyways, the suspension in my cars as always been crap.

 

[Aquarelle]

Ebay has a few different OEM styles for around $100, shipping looks like it would be nasty though.



You could replace your spoiler and while you're saving up adjust your driving to suit your dated suspension, I'll probably get flak for making a comment like that. I'm not one to preach anyways, the suspension in my cars as always been crap.

The smart thing would be to stop pushing the car so hard on dated suspension and wait until everything is new and safe.

Which must mean I'm not a smart man, that's the stupidity of youth I guess

 

[Ibonibo]

That's debatable, most people would say 280 BHP (Rough stab, I haven't taken it to a dynometer so I'm merely guessing based on the modifications made and how it feels) isn't enough to warrant a wing but it gets a little quirky in high speed corners, I'd like the extra traction.

It's a light weight MR2 so that amount of horse power is still nippy. Also something rather heavy fell on the stock spoiler so I want to replace it anyhow.

A wing or aerodynamics has nothing to do with power.

A rear spoiler only gets it max. downforce at around 160-180 kmh. (it gets a bit before those speeds, but nothing world changing, though it can be felt)

The where the struts are depends on the ridigity of the spoiler blade.

I find either the lip posted on page 2 or the medium height spoiler the best fitting.

But like the others said, putting the money first in the suspension might be the better idea

 

[Aquarelle]

A wing or aerodynamics has nothing to do with power.

A rear spoiler only gets it max. downforce at around 160-180 kmh. (it gets a bit before those speeds, but nothing world changing, though it can be felt)

Really? that much? I had pinned the effects being most noticeable from 120 onwards, in saying that I haven't driven a car with an after market wing so it's really just speculation based on the way I've seen cars handle with wings.

The where the struts are depends on the ridigity of the spoiler blade.

So the position would be based on that by the manufacturer? in which case there's no difference between the two methods beyond aesthetics? that's really rather interesting, thank you for that 👍

I find either the lip posted on page 2 or the medium height spoiler the best fitting.

As do I, I never realise people made such subtle wings for the MR2. It honestly never crossed my mind since like I've repeated to no end I don't want to change the outward appearance of my car too far from stock.

But like the others said, putting the money first in the suspension might be the better idea

Yeah, it seems to be the unanimous vote at the moment.

 

[1stlsx]

A rear spoiler only gets it max. downforce at around 160-180 kmh. (it gets a bit before those speeds, but nothing world changing, though it can be felt)

This 👍

My car at normal driving speeds, under 100MPH, there is no difference between spoiler and no spoiler. Over between 100 and 120 with \ and withouth the spoiler feels about the same. 120+ feels floaty without the spoiler, with you can feel it starting to grip more all the way to the limit of 160 MPH. At normal highway speeds Id be its generating less that 5 pounds of down force if that....

this is a good read.... Downforce

EDIT: Just wanted to add my money is on suspension as well....

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Instability under 100mph is not aero related. You need to go through and fix your suspension before you kill yourself.

 

[Aquarelle]

Instability under 100mph is not aero related. You need to go through and fix your suspension before you kill yourself.

Thanks, I'll do that. I've been compensating for the instability with my driving technique so that it hasn't been too unruly but I'm still scared of it. Despite this I've been pushing on trying to bring out its potential.. which is a scary thought.

Thank you for the advice, I'll head down to Toyota tomorrow and buy the replacement parts. If I can't afford it the bank will have to fork the bill.

I can't thank you enough, all of you.
I really didn't expect the worn out suspension to be the more significant cause.. just shows I have a lot to learn I guess..

This 👍

My car at normal driving speeds, under 100MPH, there is no difference between spoiler and no spoiler. Over between 100 and 120 with \ and withouth the spoiler feels about the same. 120+ feels floaty without the spoiler, with you can feel it starting to grip more all the way to the limit of 160 MPH. At normal highway speeds Id be its generating less that 5 pounds of down force if that....

this is a good read.... Downforce

EDIT: Just wanted to add my money is on suspension as well....

Thanks, I'll give that a read shortly too.