Recommend me a laptop

[Bram Turismo]

So, I'm finally buying a new laptop after all these years. What I'm looking for is a laptop which isn't too expensive, but can handle some work.

What I'm doing now is just some Microsoft Office work, I use Photoshop a lot, and I play some games as well. These games don't require the latest new technology though...


So with nearly 100,000 members, some of you computers freaks should be able to recommend me something right?

I spotted a Dell Inspiron 6400 series the other day, incredibly cheap, comes with dual core 1.8 Ghz or something, 512 Ram, a 256 mb graphics card and a nice LCD or something screen (those new weird mirror screens or something) and a DVD writer. For that price, it looked exactly what I was looking for but people tell me Dell is the worst I can get...I was thinking about getting an Apple notebook as well but I've worked with it and I've worked with Microsoft for years now so I decided to stay with it.


Dell Inspiron 6400:

My dad has got one of those 6400 series and it's really sweet looking, also very quiet, no fan noise at all and everything was easy to use, and fast...

 

[Danny]

The VAIO FE28H is a decent choice.

Duo Processors

 

[Azuremen]

Give us some budget numbers and some of the games you play, and it'll help us find a good match.

I will simply say "No" to anything Sony. They are over rated, over priced, and Sony is crap in every experience I've had. They simply have a nice looking body and a name going for them.

For a real budget going box, I would say Dell. Be careful with that "256 megs" of Video Ram though, as most of it is generally shared. Also, consider something with at least a 1 Gb of Ram, especially if you do Photoshop work while surfing the web.

Toshiba I think has good prices for what you get, last I checked.

Or Apple... those MacBooks are nice looking and are fairly well equipped. Just put Windows on them first... I still would feel dirty though

 

[Keichi Tsuchiya]

Personally, I'm looking at this one right now:http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/HP-P...77335/catOid/-12963/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Best buy has a nearly identical (smaller HDD, TV Tuner, faster processor) cheaper version that I'll probably get instead though.

 

[Jondot]

Yeah, on a budget you can't go wrong with one of those 6400s (or so I've heard). Don't go Sony, and unless you're Apple crazy (which you're obviously not as you'd have chosen already) don't even bother with the Macbooks. Just don't expect too much from the mostly shared graphics.

Specs wise, you really need 1GB ram for Photoshop and the larger graphics card the better. Just RUN from anything with an Intel graphics card. Run. Head for something dedicated by someone like ATI or Nvidia (it'll probably be Nvidia on Dells with intel processors). Avoid HP too - they might look sexy but they're built like Pintos.

 

[G.T]

I agree with avoiding anything with Intergrated Graphics, and having at least 1GB of RAM. Having been on Jondot's laptop personally with Intergrated Graphics () which is 3 years newer than mine (with a 9600 Pro), it runs terribly in comparison. This was just running GTA:SA, which isn't graphically demanding at all. Even if you don't game, you need a graphics card to make most of demanding applications like Photoshop.

Having a Dell myself, I would never buy one again with the stupid overheating and poor customer support, but Dell has moved on in 5 years, so they maybe ok now... The 6400 has had good user reviews, which ARE the reviews you should be reading. Reviews on this Inspiron 8600 were very high, but the user reviews were much lower, due to numerous problems.

I would suggest a HP laptop, but there are so many out there, I doubt you could go very wrong... Sony's are too expensive for what you get, for starters.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far guys


But I can't understand the "shared graphics" thing though

Anyway, my current laptop is a Medion P4 2.00 Ghz, 512 Mb RAM, a graphics card with only 32 Mb Ram (!) and not even a DVD burner (I dont use those anyway). Photoshop runs perfectly on it, even while I'm surfing so I'm sceptical of needing that 1 Ghz RAM...The main factor why I'm changing is that it makes a hell lot of noise, seriously, I can't possibly understand how such a small fan can create so much noise...

For the games I'm playing, practically games which are in categories of "Counter-Strike". Games which are fun to play, without needing a quattrocore with 1 Gb Ram graphics card or anything


I'll try to dig deeper into the specs which I'm planning to buy, the fun part of Dell is that you can choose your options on the laptop and it calculates the price immediatly 👍


OK, so after building it the way I wanted, here is what the laptop would provide me:

- Intel® Core™ Dual Core Processor T2080 (1.73 GHz, 1 MB cache, 533 MHz FSB)
- Windows Vista (But going with XP Pro, Vista doesn't run on 512 Ram computers very well says Dell, says a lot of Vista...)
- 15.4" WXGA TFT screen (1280x800) widescreen
- 1024 MB 533 MHz twochannel-DDR2 SDRAM (2x512)
- 60 GB (5400 rpm) SATA-harddisk (I don't need more than 60 Gb because I have an external harddisk on 200+ Gb, but I might consider going for a 7200 rpm...)
- Intel® Media Accelerator 950-graphic with up to 256 MB shared graphicmemory.
- 8X DVD+/-RW-station
- 6-cell litiumionbattery (53 W/t)

Though I don't play games very much (only a few hours a week), I want those games to run perfectly (currently in Counter-Strikes category qua specs). Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking but it's necessary when it comes to computers IMO...

About budget, the 6400 currently goes for 1,000 dollars, it isn't too much compared to other machines here in Norway. With the summerjob I'm having, and it earns very sweet 👍 My budget could go up as high as 2,000 dollars but I donæt want to spend it all since I'm 18 soon, and time for my DL 👍


As far as I know things about computers, it sounds like I don't require more from a laptop than that...And for the price it currently runs, a big 👍 to Dell

 

[Omnis]

Get a mac.

 

[Keichi Tsuchiya]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far guys


But I can't understand the "shared graphics" thing though

Anyway, my current laptop is a Medion P4 2.00 Ghz, 512 Mb RAM, a graphics card with only 32 Mb Ram (!) and not even a DVD burner (I dont use those anyway). Photoshop runs perfectly on it, even while I'm surfing so I'm sceptical of needing that 1 Ghz RAM...The main factor why I'm changing is that it makes a hell lot of noise, seriously, I can't possibly understand how such a small fan can create so much noise...

For the games I'm playing, practically games which are in categories of "Counter-Strike". Games which are fun to play, without needing a quattrocore with 1 Gb Ram graphics card or anything


I'll try to dig deeper into the specs which I'm planning to buy, the fun part of Dell is that you can choose your options on the laptop and it calculates the price immediatly 👍


OK, so after building it the way I wanted, here is what the laptop would provide me:

- Intel® Core™ Dual Core Processor T2080 (1.73 GHz, 1 MB cache, 533 MHz FSB)
- Windows Vista (But going with XP Pro, Vista doesn't run on 512 Ram computers very well says Dell, says a lot of Vista...)
- 15.4" WXGA TFT screen (1280x800) widescreen
- 1024 MB 533 MHz twochannel-DDR2 SDRAM (2x512)
- 60 GB (5400 rpm) SATA-harddisk (I don't need more than 60 Gb because I have an external harddisk on 200+ Gb, but I might consider going for a 7200 rpm...)
- Intel® Media Accelerator 950-graphic with up to 256 MB shared graphicmemory.
- 8X DVD+/-RW-station
- 6-cell litiumionbattery (53 W/t)

Though I don't play games very much (only a few hours a week), I want those games to run perfectly (currently in Counter-Strikes category qua specs). Yes, I know, I'm nitpicking but it's necessary when it comes to computers IMO...

About budget, the 6400 currently goes for 1,000 dollars, it isn't too much compared to other machines here in Norway. With the summerjob I'm having, and it earns very sweet 👍 My budget could go up as high as 2,000 dollars but I donæt want to spend it all since I'm 18 soon, and time for my DL 👍


As far as I know things about computers, it sounds like I don't require more from a laptop than that...And for the price it currently runs, a big 👍 to Dell

- You might want to up to a core 2 Duo.
- That Intel Media blahblahblah graphics thing sucks, upgrade to ANYTHING else.
- Do some research to figure out Which Vista you want.
- If you can spend $2000(usd?) you could get a much faster laptop, currently this:

at 2gb RAM, 200 gig Hard drive, Geforce 7600, Core 2 Duo, Vista Home Premium, and 17 inch widescreen is just $1400 down here.

 

[G.T]

But I can't understand the "shared graphics" thing though

Taken from Wikipedia:

Dedicated graphics cards

The most powerful class of GPUs typically interface with the motherboard by means of an expansion slot such as PCI Express (PCIE) or Accelerated Graphics Port (AGP) and can usually be replaced or upgraded with relative ease, assuming the motherboard is capable of supporting the upgrade. However, a dedicated GPU is not necessarily removable, nor does it necessarily interface with the motherboard in a standard fashion. The term "dedicated" refers to the fact that dedicated graphics cards have RAM that is dedicated to the card's use, not to the fact that most dedicated GPUs are removable. Dedicated GPUs for portable computers are most commonly interfaced through a non-standard and often proprietary slot due to size and weight constraints. Such ports may still be considered AGP or PCI Express, even if they are not physically interchangeable with their counterparts.

Multiple cards can draw together a single image, so that the number of pixels can be doubled and antialiasing can be set to higher quality. If the screen is parted into a left and right, each card can cache the textures and geometry from their side. But to trash the cache the screen is often parted into odd and even scan lines.

[edit] Integrated graphics solutions

Integrated graphics solutions, or shared graphics solutions are graphics processors that utilize a portion of a computer's system RAM rather than dedicated graphics memory. Such solutions are typically far less expensive to implement in comparison to dedicated graphics solutions, but at a trade-off of being far less capable and are generally considered unfit to play modern games as well as run graphically intensive programs such as Adobe Flash. (Examples of such IGPs would be offerings from SiS and VIA circa 2004.)[2] However, todays integrated solutions such as the Intel's GMA X3000 (Intel G965), AMD's Radeon X1250 (AMD 690G) and nVidia's GeForce 7050 PV (nVidia nForce 630a) are more than capable of handling 2D graphics from Adobe Flash or low stress 3D graphics. Of course the aforementioned GPU's still struggle with high-end video games. Modern desktop motherboards often include an integrated graphics solution and have expansion slots available to add a dedicated graphics card later.

As a GPU is extremely memory intensive, an integrated solution finds itself competing for the already slow system RAM with the CPU as it has no dedicated video memory. System RAM may be 2 GB/s to 8 GB/s, yet dedicated GPUs enjoy between 10 GB/s and 88 GB/s of bandwidth depending on the model. Another big problem with most integrated graphics solutions is their lack of hardware transform and lighting. This forces the CPU to do all the geometry transformations. This eats away at the CPU's potential performance as it now has to balance the OS, application logic, and 3D lighting/geometry. Virtually all discrete graphic cards have GPUs with dedicated transform and lighting, thus freeing up the CPU to concentrate on the application logic.

Basically, anything with "Intel" or "shared" as the graphics, avoid, even for Counter-Strike.

It's just a shame that sometimes you have to pay a lot to get even a minimalistic graphics card with some brands.

 

[Jondot]

But I can't understand the "shared graphics" thing though

Essentially, dedicated graphics cards have their own memory, and integrated (or "shared") graphics card "share" the memory (actually they just steal part of the RAM). The integrated ones are usually bolted onto the processor and aren't upgradeable (baaaaad).

Integrated cards just aren't worth having if you're going to game. I've been bowled over my the lame-less of my laptop's card. I've got the Intel GMA 915 with 128mb of stolen memory. It runs GTA badly and my 6 year old desktop plays The Sims better. It's the equivilent of your car being defeated by a pot-hole.

- Intel® Media Accelerator 950-graphic with up to 256 MB shared graphicmemory.

Run, run for your life. You might think you'll be fine with it, but if you've ever played games on something with a dedicated card (no matter how old it is) you'll be deeply disappointed by anything integrated. In fact, some games will actually refuse to install (even if they're 4 years old).

If you really don't want to splash out on anything else, the integrated cards are useable. I use Photoshop on a daily basis and it works with reasonable speed. Just don't expect it to play games like your desktop (or even your old laptop if it's got a dedicated card).

EDIT

Just a few more suggestions on laptops themselves:

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/169723

Now that is exactly what I'd go and buy. Sadly I need something portable, and 17 inch is just too large for me to carry around. As a desktop replacement it's perfect though. Granted the graphics card isn't that great, but it's pretty good considering the price and those specs. Shame I can only find one in the UK really...

 

[Bram Turismo]

Ok, thanks for all the feedback once again guys


One last thing regarding the integrated graphics card: Is it possibly to replace it with an ATI or Nvidia Geforce card? Or isn't it possible at all to use one of those with the Dell?

 

[Azuremen]

By replace, I am asuming you mean go out and by some PCI-E card. And the answer on that is a firm no.

Only things you can really upgrade on laptops once you've bought it is RAM and the Hard drive.

 

[Jondot]

Yeah, what Azureman said really. Although Dell do offer ATI and Nvidia cards - start off from the entertainment laptop section and they'll start offering them to you.

Once you've selected the integrated card, it's in for life.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Ok, I'll keep that in mind, +Rep for all who helped on its way

 

[Azuremen]

Yeah, what Azureman said really. Although Dell do offer ATI and Nvidia cards - start off from the entertainment laptop section and they'll start offering them to you.

Once you've selected the integrated card, it's in for life.

Well, another thing to note is many of the graphics solutions offered in Laptops, despite not being Intel Integrated, are still an integrated option, to a degree. They have some discrete memory, but will still share/steal some from system memory. Plus side is the GPUs are vastly better normally.

I know most of the Dell options are like this, and the small slim XPS system I believe with the 13 inch or smaller screen (is it 12.1?) have an option for this kind of graphics solution. Kinda the in between of dedicated and crappy integrated.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I've made up mind. It's going to be a 6400 Inspiron 👍 I just asked my dad whether his one had a shared graphics card but he said that Dell offers graphics card. His one is powered by an ATI Radeon card, though I don't know which model...Thanks once again guys, +Rep has been given 👍


Azure: I must spread but you'll have your part of the cake later when it's spread

 

[Azuremen]

Ha, thanks

One final thing if you are going with Dell. I recommend googling "Dell rebates" to see if you can find something snazzy for a coupon.

Other thing, I would recommend Windows XP, because its got better support, uses less RAM and HD space, and well, everyone has drivers for it already. Vista I feel is like paying to use a Beta.

And the X1400 Radeon option on the Dell 6400 is one of those psuedo dedicated cards.

HyperMemoryTM /TurboCacheTM Graphics (Mid-Range Solution)
Mid-range graphics solutions are designed to deliver a great balance of price and performance. Often labeled HyperMemory or TurboCache, these solutions consist of a discrete GPU with some discrete graphics memory. The remaining memory allocated to graphics is shared with the system memory.

I would recommend getting what they currently have listed at the high end (the 2 gigs of ram option), or the mid range with 1 gig of ram. Also, upgrade the Core Duo to the Core 2 Duo for the 60 dollars it costs. Its a much better processor. Don't bother with getting the 667mhz memory, as the FSB on the lower end Core 2 Duo (and the Core Due) are 533, which means upgrading to a higher speed on memory would do nothing.

Don't worry about hard drive space, external Hard Drives are getting super cheap and very small, such as the Western Digital Passport.

Can't think of much else to consider, though they do overcharge for alot of the little crap they try and sell you, like a mouse and such.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Well, I wasn't planning on getting a big HD as I've got a 200+ Gb external HD already and I rarely use any programs which take a lot of space, I use the external HD rather as a backup for all my files. Also, I never considered getting Vista, I love how XP runs and since Dell says their computers with only 0.512 Ghz Ram do not run so well on it, I figured Vista would be a total PITA on 1 Ghz RAM anyway...

About the little extras, I'm not ordering any of those, I love how I can setup my own Dell in the Norwegian online Dell stores, it lets me tick everything I want, and not want so I can't complain about online customer services on Dell 👍


But like I said, I'm not doing anything heavy on my computer, Photoshop would be the heaviest thing I do on it, for the rest it's just Excel, Word, Powerpoint and such things I do, mostly for school. And heavy games, I play those on my bigtower or whatever you call those computers. It's a P4 2.56 Ghz with an all new soundcard and I recently bought a "19 screen as well. Though it's several years old, Call of Duty (which is a heavy game IMO) works like a charm on it) runs near to perfect but I need to upgrade my Geforce card a little bit, as well as my Ram memory, which compared to all the other specs, is far too low (256 Mb RAM).

But I'm not a gamer anyway so I already know I can't be bothered to put all my money into the latest, most high-tech computers

 

[Azuremen]

I'm a light gamer, and a tech head, but I rarely spend more than 500 bucks when I build my Desktops (which you called a Bigtower )

The options I pointed out where to get a longer life span from the laptop by spending just a little bit more. 1 Gb of RAM should do it for you, I personally would prefer more but I am also a power user at times, and I run alot of apps at once normally. FYI, RAM is measured in Mb (megabytes) or Gb (gigabytes) with 1024 Mb to a Gb. You use Mhz and Ghz at times for RAM units... Mhz (Megahertz) and Ghz(Gigahertz) are units used for measuring CPU clockspeed. My OCD nature was just twitching over it for some reason...

And look at getting some RAM for your desktop... will feel 10 times faster for about... oh, 70 dollars I bet. Newegg.com is where I go to buy computer stuff normally.

 

[Jondot]

Ha, thanks

One final thing if you are going with Dell. I recommend googling "Dell rebates" to see if you can find something snazzy for a coupon.

Yes. Whatever you order, do that. You'll be surprised how much you can knock off. It might be an idea to check the Dell outlet page too - you'll find quite a lot more for your money. Admittedly they're refurbished, but hey.

 

[Bram Turismo]

FYI, RAM is measured in Mb (megabytes) or Gb (gigabytes) with 1024 Mb to a Gb. You use Mhz and Ghz at times for RAM units... Mhz (Megahertz) and Ghz(Gigahertz) are units used for measuring CPU clockspeed. My OCD nature was just twitching over it for some reason...

Well you got my brains overclocked there