Recommend me an engine.

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jammyozzy

jammyozzy

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Before we start, this is for a very hypothetical project that, if completed at all, wouldn't be finished for several years.

Ok, I need engine recommendations for a project that I'd love to take on. It essentially involves stripping out a Mini, slotting an engine into the middle of it, hooking it up to the rear wheels, then adding a rollcage and having far too much fun at local trackdays. I'm trying to plan all the parts I might need but I'm now stuck choosing a potential engine, and so I'd like some opinions from GTP. The engine needs to be:
  • light
  • cheap
  • reliable
  • compact
  • easy to work on/tune
  • producing about 150-200hp, stock. I don't want to go too powerful, for fear of wrecking the car and myself, but I want enough power to have some fun with, and ideally it will be easy to extract more power from the engine in the future, should I so wish.
So far the only things I've come up with are the Honda K-series engines, or a smaller displacement Rover V8 (3.5L/4L). Both are compact, produce about the desired amount of power and are fairly light. The V8 is obviously bigger and heavier than the 4 cylinder Honda engine, but is silly cheap compared to some of the more powerful K-series engines. Any other recommendations would be appreciated.

List so far:

  • Toyota 3S-GTE
  • Toyota 4A-GE 20v
  • Honda K-Series engines. (Any more info on specific models?)
  • 3.5/4L Rover V8

I'm not so keen on the 'Busa engine, I would prefer a car engine because there would be more transmission options. And I'd appreciate some torque. :)
 
What Backspace said, but I also would point out the 4A-GE 20 Valve Silver and Black top engines. About 160 HP from 1.6 L, stock without forced induction.

Both models got mounted in FR and MR cars, so you have your options on transmission type etc. Both offer fairly easy power increases with tuning, and both are reliable.
 
You cant go wrong with the K series:tup:

But, I would go with a 1.3L suzuki busa engine

175 HP





Might be something like this when you are done:
 
What about an old 1.6 vtec from the Civic Vti? There's a Mini near me with one but under the bonnet driving the front wheels. There's also a few bike engined ones kicking about.

http://www.zcars.org.uk/
Z cars do RWD conversions. And have some clips.

http://www.16vminiclub.com/
Have look here for some ideas.

Edit: That Smart is class! used to have a video of one similar.
 
Azuremen
but I also would point out the 4A-GE 20 Valve Silver and Black top engines. About 160 HP from 1.6 L, stock without forced induction.
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+1 I recommend either the 20v silver or blacktop. Great engines with tons of potential. And the best thing about them is they are cheaper to obtain than the SR20DE.
 
Either a Honda or Vauxhall lump is the way to go - not sure what the engines are called though. Here's an example of a 2-litre Vauxhall in the back, as you're suggesting (sorry for the rubbish picture):



The only problems I can think of with a mid-engined Mini are 1. working on it is a pain, as it's all internal; 2. you'll have to consider how you're going to cool it; and 3. the chassis is designed to handle well with the engine weight at the front. But if you're building your own, you can build solutions into the project as you go.

BTW, FYI (for a front-engined Mini):



A ready-to-go Civic Type R engine.

You could always be really cheeky and try a BMW Mini engine, but as far as I'm aware, no-one's tried that yet...
 
Since we are soeaking hypothetically, I say a Rover K. It keeps its Britishness, its lightweight, and it is pretty torquey for the size. May not be the most reliable of engines, though (I don't really know).
As for Rover V8s, I would suggest the more common 4.0L Range Rover unit over the 3.5, as it is probably stronger and most likely the same weight or lighter.
Or you could try a Buick 215, which is a little lighter but not as durable as the Rover version.
JCE3000GT
And the best thing about them is they are cheaper to obtain than the SR20DE.
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They are still overpriced for what they are.
 
I wouldn't worry about transmission choices with a motorcycle motor, with the chain drive you can very cheaply and easily change your final drive ratio. With a big rear sprocket and mini sized tires you can get much shorter, more reasonable gearing for a big car.

However, you then have to come up with a differential that can be driven by a chain, unless you run a spool. And you have to come up with a system for reverse.

The biggest advantage a motorcycle motor has over something like a 4AGE is weight, I think a modified production Mini would probably be too heavy to really exploit that... I'd be looking at a 3SGTE, and I'd forget about a 200hp limit :)
 
It probably isn't something that most people would consider, but a GM/Olds Quad 4 engine would be a powerful, relativey light, reliable powerplant.



It is a DOHC, 2.3 or 2.4 L, I4 engine making between 150 and 190 hp, and similar torque numbers. They are cheap, and have a surprising good aftermarket due to numerous circle track applications (and this means parts will be cheap, especially when compared to pricey Honda, Toyota, or bike parts). Engine weight is 322 lbs fully dressed (a Honda K20 is around 250 lbs, but the Quad 4 is an iron block--ready for nitrous or boost without a hiccup).

Without emissions equipment, the engines make 220-230 hp. That puts it in K20 territory for a fraction of the cost (junkyard engines should be around for under $200). Then GMPP makes a blower kit (P/N 12498660) which is worth another 50 hp. If you want to go nuts, people have these engines putting out 750+ hp on a combination of turbos and nitrous (and octane, of course ;)).

Lots more information at http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/oldsmobile_quad_4_combining_parts/photo_01.html
 
Get a bike engine. Do you really need that much torque on a car that you could probably lift (atleast at one end) yourself?

I've seen some examples however, that use ford engines. Things like old escort engines as they are usually quite easy to tune up and there's plenty to be picked from wrecks.
 
Toronado
They are still overpriced for what they are.
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Under $1000 USD with ECU and Tranny on it? Thats for the Silvertop.. doesn't seem that overpriced to me.
 
ExigeExcel
I've seen some examples however, that use ford engines. Things like old escort engines as they are usually quite easy to tune up and there's plenty to be picked from wrecks.
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The turbo Ford Lima engine (the Lima is the engine used in older, RWD Escorts) puts out the same power as a naturally aspirated GM Quad 4.
 
Azuremen
Under $1000 USD with ECU and Tranny on it? Thats for the Silvertop.. doesn't seem that overpriced to me.
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+1 $1000 for a silver top 4A-GE is most certainly not overpriced. The SR20DE runs easily double that with around the same power output. I may like the SR20DE better, but I'd prefer to use the 4A-GE based on power per dollar.
 
Azuremen
Under $1000 USD with ECU and Tranny on it? Thats for the Silvertop.. doesn't seem that overpriced to me.
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Where did you get that price? The lowest I've seen for a 20 valver is $1250, and I believe that is engine only. For that price, add about $100 to get a 3.5L Rover V8 and a 5 speed stick, which is a similarly powerful and much torquier engine that weighs pretty much the same; and would be a lot easier and cheaper to modify, with the bonus that afterwards it would be more reliable to boot.
 

I think this is someone's unfinished project on RX-7.com. It has FD wheels aswell as FD running gear. Although i'm unsure if he was running a 13b or a 20b. Although I think he's pushing more than 300hp in that tiny package......
 
[throttlehappy] drop a LS1 in it [/throttlehappy]
 
Duke
[throttlehappy] drop a LS1 in it [/throttlehappy]
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That was and still is one thing I wanna do before I die. Oldschool mini with a big old supercharged LS1 chevy where the backseats were.
 
More like wings Exige...yes...wings...because that thing would fly.
 
Dare I say...
4G63T?

Turbocharged for easy upgrades, the earlier 6 Bolt motors are also quite reliable, with no crankwalk (unlike the later 7 Bolt motors).
It's got a transaxle, so fewer drivetrain issues to deal with, and you could change it out for an AWD transaxle and make the Mini AWD, should you choose to do so.
I'm unsure of pricing, though. I'd expect something similar to it's Honda/Nissan/Toyota 4-cylinder counterparts.
 
I'd just suggest the B18C VTEC. Same block as a B16a but more power and torque. They're better than the 20V Toyota motors and I imagine that the older and more common B series would be cheaper than a K series. However I don't know if the Integra was that common in England so maybe pilfering a motor from an Integra Type R would be easier. B18C Type R is nearly the same size as the B16a but makes 195-200hp.

As people have mentioned, since they came front wheel drive, there's a nice, convenient transaxle to work with and if you do go Type R then you get a gearbox with a helical LSD.

Also, people have been putting B16as into Minis for a while so I imagine you would be able to use some of their experience to put towards your own project.
 
Buy a cheap Scorpio with a Cosworth V6 in it, my mate picked one up at auctions for £350. 200ish hp when new so probably in the range u want now, sounded nice as well.
 
backspace
2nd or 3rd gen 3sgte
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They arent too cheap, especially the 3rd gen, a nice 3rd gen with wiring loom ecu is going to net about £1000 or more depending on the mileage. If you were mid mounting it though you could look for someone parting out an older mr2 turbo, then you could probably use the gearbox and have some custom driveshafts made up.

To be honest i'd say go for a honda B16 engine, seeing as they are very common moreso than the integra b18's and it should be pretty cheap.

You know though you could pick up a 3SGE for peanuts, simmilar power as the honda B series engines and a few mods could see you at the 200whp mark (de-cat, manifold exaust, cams, camgears, headwork, possibly fueling). Also the 3S-GE is fairly common due to all the normal celicas and mr2s around.

rovens
Buy a cheap Scorpio with a Cosworth V6 in it, my mate picked one up at auctions for £350. 200ish hp when new so probably in the range u want now, sounded nice as well.
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Oh man yeah that sounds like a good idea as well.

Oooh one thing I thought of is the fact that the 20v isn't very common, there was never a uk car that actually used it and it only appeared in those newer Trueno/Levin cars in the early/mid 90's. So getting parts might be a bit of a pain and same goes for modifying it.
 
Did they sell the Volkswagen 1.8L 16V there? We had them here in the US in the late '80s and early '90s? Those engines were good for 125 BHP, didn't weigh a whole lot, and were not only extremely easy to work on, but easy to adapt as well.

They would have came out of the GTI and GLI of the era, and you could find older ones in the Scirocco GTI as well.

...Just my two cents...
 
On the 20V some more. Parts aren't that bad since the tranny is a direct match from the 16V, all the seals are the same except the intake cam seal, the block is the same, and so on. Quite a few shared parts.

Plus, there is a huge aftermarket support for them between Australia and Japan, and they are becoming increasingly popular in the US do to drifting. The other benefit is, because guys doing swaps want the ECU, you can generally find just the engines for under 600 dollars on Ebay, so getting a parts motor isn't that hard.

Yes, I said buy a motor on e-bay. Its where I got mine, hassle free, and works fine. And speaking of motors...
20V for under 1000 dollars

JCE, other benefit of the Toyota engines over the Nissans is they are non interference heads.

On Honda motors, you could be really different and do this... a D16. Yes, the crappy motor. Why? Junkyard turbo - $1000 USD in parts (if you are handy), plus the cheap motor ($100 or less if you pull it yourself) can net you over 200 WHP. And if you blow the engine for some reason, replacing it will be relatively cheap. I'm actually considering this kinda of route for a rally car. Just get an EG or something and do this build up on it for cheap and beat the crap out of it all.
 
Most good engines for this project has been mentioned. How about a SR20DET from a GTi-R Sunny/Pulsar? (sorry if that particular engine has been mentioned) Good power, good response, great reliability if serviced properly.


Duke
[throttlehappy] drop a LS1 in it [/throttlehappy]
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Not quite throttlehappy enough, he wouldn't put it so......... sensibly. :)
 

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